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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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With that said I am VERY surprised that the survey was a real survey, there wasn't one cupcake question

 

Halo 5: guns good, sprint bad

 

A little bit of faith has been restored

 

I understand you cannot confirm if the survey has any specific questions. But let's say I wanted to participate in a survey in which one or more questions went something like "you believe 343 hates halo and would rather make CoD", or "you would like to see all c levels at 343 fired tomorrow and halo given to certain affinity".

 

Would you recommend this survey to someone like me?

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And I said that I regretted to sound like that... but the game they're striving to make is much better than Reach and 4 and brings back a ton of what made Halo, Halo. The game is good.

 

Hell, Reach and 4 were "good" games just executed very poorly from a design standpoint, and it showed in fan-backlash and population numbers.

What does H5 bring back that make it more "Halo"? Because as it stands, I feel like Reach and to a much lesser extent H4 are more "Halo" than H5:AW is.

 

In "Halo", when I get the drop on somebody, either I get a kill or the other guys kills me. At least someone dies, and not this thrust and sprint away to safety bullshit. H5 is infuriating and not even close to being a decent game, even if it was a new IP. 

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And I said that I regretted to sound like that... but the game they're striving to make is much better than Reach and 4 and brings back a ton of what made Halo, Halo. The game is good.

 

Hell, Reach and 4 were "good" games just executed very poorly from a design standpoint, and it showed in fan-backlash and population numbers.

Nah game isn't very good. Haven't met a person who likes it. They can strive all they want but unless some major changes happen H5 will seriously disappoint in sales and especially longevity.

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What does H5 bring back that make it more "Halo"? Because as it stands, I feel like Reach and to a much lesser extent H4 are more "Halo" than H5:AW is.

 

In "Halo", when I get the drop on somebody, either I get a kill or the other guys kills me. At least someone dies, and not this thrust and sprint away to safety bullshit. H5 is infuriating and not even close to being a decent game, even if it was a new IP. 

 

Thruster Pack was in Halo way before COD... as Evade back in Reach. Halo 5's "ADS" is not REALLY ADS as it functions in COD... purely cosmetic, so what if it enhances accuracy to automatics (it honestly kind of enhanced accuracy in old Halo games too, so it's nothing new)... ultimately, it does not effect the game in any substantial way. NO loadouts, weapons are back on-map, equal starts/abilities, guns/grenades/melee, longer kill times/recharging health...

 

Halo 5 is Halo, with new/refined abilities. End of story. I don't understand how it's so difficult to see... Halo 5 is COD: AW is frankly a weak argument, if you ask me.

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Thruster Pack was in Halo way before COD... as Evade back in Reach. Halo 5's "ADS" is not REALLY ADS as it functions in COD... purely cosmetic, so what if it enhances accuracy to automatics (it honestly kind of enhanced accuracy in old Halo games too, so it's nothing new)... ultimately, it does not effect the game in any substantial way. NO loadouts, weapons are back on-map, equal starts/abilities, guns/grenades/melee, longer kill times/recharging health...

 

Halo 5 is Halo, with new/refined abilities. End of story. I don't understand how it's so difficult to see... Halo 5 is COD: AW is frankly a weak argument, if you ask me.

Yea, it's an insult to CoD. 

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How a game that has sprint (and thruster as a base ability, to a lesser extent) can be considered Halo by anybody is beyond me. If shields and equal starts are all we need to :weback: then the bar is set way too low.

 

The concept of not always moving at top speed with your weapon out at all times in a Halo game makes it un-Halo. It just will not play the same. These little nerfs here and there to sprint have accomplished nothing (at least, nothing from what I've seen. You got people sprint+thrusting around any chance they get). Sprint as a concept needs to be completely forgotten for me to call this a true Halo.

 

It bothers me knowing there will never be another great map in Halo with sprint as a default ability, especially now that it's infinite. I remember seeing threads pop up on Waypoint a while back (before Halo 5 gameplay was known to anybody) about how "it's not very Spartan-like to not be able to run all the time. 5 seconds and you're out of breath?". Too bad 343i pulled a derp and decided infinite sprint was the answer. I think we all know why, but I don't want to have to say the "i" word.

 

As far as the "adapt" argument goes, my answer was always "why the fuck should I?". My way of dealing with the "next gen of Halo" is by not buying it. I don't want to have to give up on Halo, but I'd rather not pay 60 bucks for a game I won't enjoy.

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I understand you cannot confirm if the survey has any specific questions. But let's say I wanted to participate in a survey in which one or more questions went something like "you believe 343 hates halo and would rather make CoD", or "you would like to see all c levels at 343 fired tomorrow and halo given to certain affinity".

 

Would you recommend this survey to someone like me?

Nah

 

I mean they certainly allow you to write in answers however they are all concerning mechanics

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I'm a designer man... not a game designer but I know a reasonable amount of the nature of the business of developing a product. A year is a LOT of time. A lot can change.

 

How long did Bungie take to rebuild Halo 2 ENTIRELY before release? Something ridiculous, like 9 months? I forgot... but it was something like that.

 

No, a year is not a lot of time. In game development the leading months before going gold are spent fine tuning and squashing bugs.

 

It's not like 2 months before going gold they're gonna be like "Hey guys, we can add 2 extra maps to the game".

 

No, it doesn't work like that.

 

Your experience as a "designer" doesn't mean anything unless you're a game designer for a AAA studio.

 

Beta, named after the second letter of the Greek alphabet, is the software development phase following alpha. It generally begins when the software is feature complete. Software in the beta phase will generally have many more bugs in it than completed software, as well as speed/performance issues and may still cause crashes or data loss. The focus of beta testing is reducing impacts to users, often incorporating usability testing. The process of delivering a beta version to the users is called beta release and this is typically the first time that the software is available outside of the organization that developed it.

 

Beta is feature and asset complete version of the game, when only bugs are being fixed.[151][152] This version contains no bugs that prevent the game from being shippable.[151] No changes are made to the game features, assets, or code. Beta occurs two to three months before code release.[152]

 

Obviously different people are going to use the term "beta" a little differently these days with all this early access crap, but the Halo we're playing now is 95%+ of what we're going to be playing in the final release.

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That's a pretty unreasonable statement...

 

The reason why H5 gets all the COD references is because COD is what is here and now, its what has grown e-sports wise and what people even tune into twitch to watch pub stomping casual matches for.  It is not a weak argument when you look at what is currently relevant. It is a given, that that is what people are naturally going to lean towards for a comparison (it also doesn't help that when you look at the fundamentals and additions to H5, they do resemble (pretty distinctly) those found in AW) 

However, yes, there are many differences.

 

People are frustrated due to the direction that Halo has taken under the 343 umbrella, plain and simple.  It showed in the H4 population drop, it showing in the backlash of a broken MCC, and it is showing in the viewer #s currently for H5 on Twitch.  

 

The majority of people did not ask for these changes, or want them.  Yes there is a minority (like yourself) that support H5, and suggest that we all just jump on the bandwagon, swallow the blue pill and carry on with our support and credit to 343.  I am not saying that you are wrong, but I would just hope that you understand that for some (myself included) we have literally watched Halo die for years and years, with no real glowing indicator that it will come back.  

 

I respect your continual support for H5 comments, and trust me I wish I could have that sort of mindset.  But I cant, like many others. 

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Thruster Pack was in Halo way before COD... as Evade back in Reach. Halo 5's "ADS" is not REALLY ADS as it functions in COD... purely cosmetic, so what if it enhances accuracy to automatics (it honestly kind of enhanced accuracy in old Halo games too, so it's nothing new)... ultimately, it does not effect the game in any substantial way. NO loadouts, weapons are back on-map, equal starts/abilities, guns/grenades/melee, longer kill times/recharging health...

 

Halo 5 is Halo, with new/refined abilities. End of story. I don't understand how it's so difficult to see... Halo 5 is COD: AW is frankly a weak argument, if you ask me.

 Thruster is just as much as a get out of jail free card as sprint. That is why people used it in Halo 4. 

 

And no, Halo 5 does not have equal starts! Why? 

 

SPRINT!

 

Just for the sake of ranting, people can copy and save this post and use it in any SPRINT argument. 

 

Why not just make the base player speed faster rather than sprint and having thruster? This benefits everybody! What good comes from the fact sprint and thrust FORCES me to put my gun down when I never ever EVER had that problem in Halo of old?

 

 

 Putting your gun down is the worst problem with these two and the reasons why have been addressed countless times. Halo games should require full mobility and combat function at all times. This "trade off" is not something fun. How can you tell me not shooting in a game where you shoot other players is fun?

 

Why can I NOT move at full speed in every direction and not just forward? Think about these things.

 

In a traditional Halo, Not only could I shoot a running opponent, but I could keep pace with him because I was in full mobility as well. Nobody moves faster than anybody. THAT is even grounds.

 

Sprint breaks this simple balance of movement. That alone is an imbalance within the mechanic itself. 

 

Either I can try to shoot him, and he has a boost in speed and out runs me. 

 

Or

 

I can chase him down, but I can't shoot him.

 

Add in the fact this dude can thrust behind a wall now, and you have yourself a good ole game that encourages cat and mouse.  

 

This was never a problem before.

 

The only way you would escape a losing fight is having good map position and great map knowledge to juke out and fool your opposition. Using map geometry to your advantage was a skill that is now dead. 

 

Even grounds is not just about what weapon and abilities you have. Everybody should be moving the same pace the entire game. Two different speeds + pausing combat mechanics = disaster. 

 

Having a faster base player speed will eliminate these problems completely and it will up the pace of the game. Is that not what we want? So let's eliminate the cons completely and get that boost of speed in a permanent fashion.

 

It's combat structure is smoother due to weapons already being out and never lowered. This means you can move, jump, and shoot in 360 degree access in full mobility.

 

Not just forward with a lowered weapon like sprint. Over all this is a smoother combat structure.

 

 

There is no boost in player speed due to sprint so all players are moving the same pace the duration of the game. Nobody can outrun their enemy. They have to use their knowledge of positioning and map geometry to juke out and out smart their opposition if they're losing a fight while at the same time being FORCED to fight back or die. 

 

Maps are smaller and thus combat is compact and you don't have dead zones in areas of the map. You will always have enemies in your sight and they will always have you in theirs. No running around with nothing to do.

 

Positioning is rewarded and punished based on the players map movements and awareness and they don't have sprint and thruster holding hands for people in the middle of open space who are not paying attention to their surroundings.

 

To sum this up. NO HALO 5 IS NOT HALO because the fundamentals of movement and combat have changed and not for the better. Until thruster and SPRINT go, movement and combat mechanics will interrupt each others functions and therefore Halo's smooth structure that made it what it was. 

 

 

/rant

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Thank god the Halo 4 playlist is going to be up soon.  I was worried they were going to be working on something stupid like Halo 2 hit registration or making the parties work.

 

I lol'd

 

Why make the game work? - WE NEED H4 PLAYLIST FIRST!!!!  

 

343 is the worst. 

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No, a year is not a lot of time. In game development the leading months before going gold are spent fine tuning and squashing bugs.

 

It's not like 2 months before going gold they're gonna be like "Hey guys, we can add 2 extra maps to the game".

 

No, it doesn't work like that.

 

Your experience as a "designer" doesn't mean anything unless you're a game designer for a AAA studio.

 

 

 

Obviously different people are going to use the term "beta" a little differently these days with all this early access crap, but the Halo we're playing now is 95%+ of what we're going to be playing in the final release.

 

 

I'm not talking about adding/removing physical game content or anything like that... There won't likely be many substantial changes to the maps or anything. The Beta, as they've said numerous times... (why do you think they conducted an elaborate survey via the Community Feedback Program?) is about the game mechanics.

 

They want to get Halo 5 playing like it should before release. There is PLENTY of time for that.

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I'm not talking about adding/removing physical game content or anything like that... There won't likely be many substantial changes to the maps or anything. The Beta, as they've said numerous times... (why do you think they conducted an elaborate survey via the Community Feedback Program?) is about the game mechanics.

 

They want to get Halo 5 playing like it should before release. There is PLENTY of time for that.

 

complete side note --- who is that chick in your profile pic?

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lets be honest guys. 343 has no intention to do away w/ sprint. they have built maps around sprint and have added "abilities" around sprint.

 

343 removing sprint = redoing 50% of their multiplayer.

 

at this rate most of us are still going to buy halo 5 (cause of campign or some friend convinces us to). we will play for 1-2 months, rage, and quit,

 

then we will all trickle back with our hopes on Halo 6.

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I lol'd

 

Why make the game work? - WE NEED H4 PLAYLIST FIRST!!!!  

 

343 is the worst. 

WELL IF THE FORUMS WEREN'T BLOWING UP WITH " FIX H4 PLAYLIST!" WE WOULD GET SOME H2 NEWS.

 

/rant

 

 

 

:kappa:

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 Thruster is just as much as a get out of jail free card as sprint. That is why people used it in Halo 4. 

 

And no, Halo 5 does not have equal starts! Why? 

 

SPRINT!

 

Just for the sake of ranting, people can copy and save this post and use it in any SPRINT argument. 

 

Why not just make the base player speed faster rather than sprint and having thruster? This benefits everybody! What good comes from the fact sprint and thrust FORCES me to put my gun down when I never ever EVER had that problem in Halo of old?

 

 

 Putting your gun down is the worst problem with these two and the reasons why have been addressed countless times. Halo games should require full mobility and combat function at all times. This "trade off" is not something fun. How can you tell me not shooting in a game where you shoot other players is fun?

 

Why can I NOT move at full speed in every direction and not just forward? Think about these things.

 

In a traditional Halo, Not only could I shoot a running opponent, but I could keep pace with him because I was in full mobility as well. Nobody moves faster than anybody. THAT is even grounds.

 

Sprint breaks this simple balance of movement. That alone is an imbalance within the mechanic itself. 

 

Either I can try to shoot him, and he has a boost in speed and out runs me. 

 

Or

 

I can chase him down, but I can't shoot him.

 

Add in the fact this dude can thrust behind a wall now, and you have yourself a good ole game that encourages cat and mouse.  

 

This was never a problem before.

 

The only way you would escape a losing fight is having good map position and great map knowledge to juke out and fool your opposition. Using map geometry to your advantage was a skill that is now dead. 

 

Even grounds is not just about what weapon and abilities you have. Everybody should be moving the same pace the entire game. Two different speeds + pausing combat mechanics = disaster. 

 

Having a faster base player speed will eliminate these problems completely and it will up the pace of the game. Is that not what we want? So let's eliminate the cons completely and get that boost of speed in a permanent fashion.

 

It's combat structure is smoother due to weapons already being out and never lowered. This means you can move, jump, and shoot in 360 degree access in full mobility.

 

Not just forward with a lowered weapon like sprint. Over all this is a smoother combat structure.

 

 

There is no boost in player speed due to sprint so all players are moving the same pace the duration of the game. Nobody can outrun their enemy. They have to use their knowledge of positioning and map geometry to juke out and out smart their opposition if they're losing a fight while at the same time being FORCED to fight back or die. 

 

Maps are smaller and thus combat is compact and you don't have dead zones in areas of the map. You will always have enemies in your sight and they will always have you in theirs. No running around with nothing to do.

 

Positioning is rewarded and punished based on the players map movements and awareness and they don't have sprint and thruster to hold hands to people in the middle of open space who are not paying attention to their surroundings.

 

To sum this up. NO HALO 5 IS NOT HALO because the fundamentals of movement and combat have changed and not for the better. Until thruster and SPRINT go, movement and combat mechanics will interrupt each others functions and therefore Halo's smooth structure. 

 

 

/rant

 

You don't have to explain to me why Sprint is bad for Halo lol... I've held that belief since Halo Reach... H5 is the first Halo where I actually didn't really mind its implementation, but idk... I'm still not completely on-board with it. Its effects on gameplay are interesting though this time, but it could stay, it could go... I really couldn't care less. The weapons have higher range to compensate for the scaled maps too, so it really doesn't feel quite as detrimental IMO.

 

Still... I'm pretty indifferent about it in Halo 5.

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I hate to rain on some of your guys' parades and everything but what if a guy thrusts away from you during a 1v1, and you just weren't in the optimal position to finish the kill? Could that be a possibility? Did you wait for him to over-extend so you could catch him completely out of position?

 

Getting pretty sick of the negativity here and believe me, I HATE to sound like a Reach-era B.net/Waypointer, but the game is changing and as a result, so will the tactics. It's time to get used to it... It's page-after-page of complaints, day-after-day, week-after-week guys. It's getting old.

 

Halo: CE "2" isn't happening, we should've all known and accepted this by now. Therefore, you cannot necessarily play this game like the older ones. Just enjoy the game, give your CONSTRUCTIVE feedback, and RESPECT others' differing opinions... There's a lot to like this time around. No, Halo 5 is not perfect, but it's a damn likeable game regardless. It's already 10 times the game Halo 4 could ever be, with reasonable competitive potential.

 

At least give 343 some credit where credit is due. The game is a year out from release...

I saw how many people were bashing you so I had to reply. I pretty much agree with you. There is simply no way Halo is ever going to return back to its' core, so everyone expecting no sprint, no spartan abilities, etc are just setting themselves up for disappointment. 343 is clearly taking Halo in a different direction and the best thing to do is to try and make sure they do it in the best way possible, because there's no turning back in their eyes.

 

I have a lot of fun on Halo 5. I play it understanding that engagements and map movement will play out differently than they did in past Halos. I find enjoyment in the BR, which is incredibly satisfying, and using thruster pack in clever ways. I feel that it rewards when I make good plays and especially rewards good teamwork. Whether this'll hold up in high level play is yet to be seen. Regardless, to enjoy the game you have to open your mind and remove some of the barriers that previously defined Halo. It's unfortunate but that's just the way it is.

 

Sprint is bad, but there's nothing we can do about it.

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I saw how many people were bashing you so I had to reply. I pretty much agree with you. There is simply no way Halo is ever going to return back to its' core, so everyone expecting no sprint, no spartan abilities, etc are just setting themselves up for disappointment. 343 is clearly taking Halo in a different direction and the best thing to do is to try and make sure they do it in the best way possible, because there's no turning back in their eyes.

 

I have a lot of fun on Halo 5. I play it understanding that engagements and map movement will play out differently than they did in past Halos. I find enjoyment in the BR, which is incredibly satisfying, and using thruster pack in clever ways. I feel that it rewards when I make good plays and especially rewards good teamwork. Whether this'll hold up in high level play is yet to be seen. Regardless, to enjoy the game you have to open your mind and remove some of the barriers that previously defined Halo. It's unfortunate but that's just the way it is.

 

Sprint is bad, but there's nothing we can do about it.

 

i think spartan abilities can stay. make it harder to use thruster maybe. and get rid of climbing over things.

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