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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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I feel like if the H5 beta poll was redone today, that thruster question would look quite a bit different. 

I'm more surprised by the clamber results.

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Quake and Unreal are fucking terrible on console. Quake or unreal plus a controller just is not a great mix. These games were made for PC while Halo was made for console, there is no sense in comparing them both as people have been doing in this thread.

 

Not arguing that each game wasn't "made" for specific hardware, and I'm definitely aware of how quake is supposed to play, and how to play the console version the best way you can, despite the lack of accuracy and controlled advanced movement techniques. The game can still be played successfully and I'm certainly a huge fan after playing Unreal Championship on xbox.

 

The only comparisons I like to make is comparing the "opposites" of Quake and Halo.. for example fast movement speed, advanced movement techniques and a weak starting weapon versus slow movement speed, advanced grenade techniques and the ultimate weapon. I used to call it "consoles version of quake" but that did offend quite a few people. 

Anyone who says this is flat out lying. And the only way Quake and Unreal will work on consoles if aim assist is on, which will change the game enough to where Quake and UT fans are going to say "is this even Quake/UT?". Which is why Halo is so great for consoles, or was.

 

Unreal Championship had tons of aim assist. Quake those doesn't as far as I can tell, and it's still not that hard to aim. It's hard as fuck to be perfect, but maybe there's some correlation there.

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Great thread. No halo fan is going to say "nope, not buying halo 5 if there is no sprint".

Which reminded me of something...

 

Who is this larger audience that enjoys sprint in halo? @@Sal1ent @@Deez

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It's hard to not be hostile when you're reading a thread created by somebody who wants BR starts removed because he wants to spray around duel-wielded plasma rifles (which according to them should totally come back) and 500 other uninformed children are supporting him.

 

Can somebody explain to me why the Halo community (well, certain parts of it *cough*) have such a grudge against precision weapons? Not just the BR, either. Some people seem to want autos to be the dominant weapons. Who the hell finds Halo fun when all you have to do is push "up" on the left stick and hold "RT"?

CoD kids.

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Anyone who says this is flat out lying. And the only way Quake and Unreal will work on consoles if aim assist is on, which will change the game enough to where Quake and UT fans are going to say "is this even Quake/UT?". Which is why Halo is so great for consoles, or was.

It would work fine if it was just reticle magnetism and no bullet curvature.

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CoD kids.

Hey, chill. Trying to liken AR deathchargers to CoD kids is an insult to CoD.

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Hey everyone, I've used the search bar and can't find if anyone has posted this before so I apologise if someone has. I've also tried posting this on Waypoint, but everyone there are too busy circle jerking and my posts get swallowed up too quickly. 

 

I've read almost 50 pages after Josh Holmes spoke about how sprint is immersive and what not in that thread and I hold very close views to a lot of people here about sprint. I won't go into detail about sprint, because lets face it, what's new to say? However, since Halo 5 has been in development for about two years, is it wise to let 343 do their thing and keep sprint implemented for the sake of the campaign? I imagine that's why it's such a touchy subject for 343 because they've spent so much time and money on the campaign to just take it out. There could also be some parts in the campaign where sprint is needed and impossible to progress without it. Even though multiplayer has much more replay-ability it's still silly to not take it out. What my point of this post is to not justify sprint, it's to propose we push for 343 to implement something else. Now back in Halo 3 we had a lot of communities thriving because we had really good customization. MLG could alter pre-existing map's spawns and weapon layouts to make the perfect competitive map or they could alter the gametype to suit a specific map (just like how CTF on the Pit had disabled flag return time, but Narrows and Onslaught were 3 seconds). In the gametype options there were some other settings like this:

 

Primary Weapon = Battle Rifle

Shield Recharge Rate = 90%

Damage Modifier = 110%

Player Speed = 110%

Motion Tracker = Off

etc

 

You get the point. We could change nearly all of the settings to suit what style of play we wanted. What if we could do this in Halo 5 as well? But not just player speed. What if we had the ability to toggle on or off all of the spartan abilities and be able to have barebones Halo 5. No sprint, no slide, no shoulder charge, ground pound, you name it and have it all listed under the game type settings. I've jumped around all of the maps in Halo 5 without sprinting and you can make most of them with just the thruster. You do need to clamber on a select few, but not very many. This wouldn't only just work for competitive settings, it would also help thrive other communities like ForgeHub. I remember ForgeHub being a huge forging community right up until you could no longer change all of the settings. Imagine if there were good maps in Halo 4 and we had the ability to turn off sprint, ordinance and loadouts? I personally would have played the game much longer than I had. 

Would this work out? Would this help 343 cater to all types of players, including us?

This would make the niche competitive scene happy, but the goal is to have the default settings be the most competitive. A player who likes Halo 5 on default shouldn't tune into an HCS stream for the first time and wonder why the game looks and plays completely different from the Halo 5 they know.

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I don't get what upsets people about BR starts, except that the AR isn't the all around dominant weapon anymore, and it takes some skill for noobs to aim. I still would rather have a buffed magnum and nerfed AR as starting weapons though, but I don't get what upsets people...

 

@Nj Pro, I support buffing slide to a point where you don't need to sprint for as long to use it. Most abilities that result from "terminal velocity" are very bad anyway. It's not balanced to run for a second to slide when you can just use thrusters instead. Spartan Charge is also a worthless melee that you have to commit to for way too long, and there's not even a toggle to turn it off. 

Terminal velocity's only use should be to prevent people from sprinting away until it's reached by knocking them out of sprint for taking damage. 

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I don't get what upsets people about BR starts, except that the AR isn't the all around dominant weapon anymore, and it takes some skill for noobs to aim. I still would rather have a buffed magnum and nerfed AR as starting weapons though, but I don't get what upsets people...

 

@Nj Pro, I support buffing slide to a point where you don't need to sprint for as long to use it. Most abilities that result from "terminal velocity" are very bad anyway. It's not balanced to run for a second to slide when you can just use thrusters instead. Spartan Charge is also a worthless melee that you have to commit to for way too long, and there's not even a toggle to turn it off. 

 

Terminal velocity's only use should be to prevent people from sprinting away until it's reached by knocking them out of sprint for taking damage. 

I get it. If you can't aim that well in the first place, it's basically impossible to get kills with a BR. If they have an AR to run around with people with poor aim with precision weapons will on average feel they are doing better, aka, have more fun. 

 

For the record, I want AR/Pistol starts. 

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To be completely fair, I got ranked into silver on one of my accounts and even in silver the game CRAWLS with BR starts. At least with AR starts it felt faster because more people were running around. Strangely enough, I think Halo 5 would play better with no precision weapons outside of power weapons. The thruster and sprint just make the cat and mouse games you play with the BR unbearable.

 

I understand completely, but I think that's more to do with bullshit like sprint and thruster  the advanced mobility options Halo 5 offers its players for both offensive and defensive techniques!

 

That's a fantastic profile pic, btw.

 

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I get it. If you can't aim that well in the first place, it's basically impossible to get kills with a BR. If they have an AR to run around with people with poor aim with precision weapons will on average feel they are doing better, aka, have more fun. 

 

For the record, I want AR/Pistol starts. 

So... how are people defending this? "It's too hard to use the BR, it sucks?" what are people even asking for?

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You have Planetside 2, Toxikk, Quake, CS, UT4, and TF2. Oh, and CoD4 Promod if the servers are still alive.

u know that post said popular, not any fps

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So... how are people defending this? "It's too hard to use the BR, it sucks?" what are people even asking for?

Not everyone that plays halo wants to be good at it. they just have fun with it. they're not motivated enough to suck and practice and get good. BR starts is for people that are already decent at the game, or are willing to get better. not everyone else.

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Unreal Championship had tons of aim assist. Quake those doesn't as far as I can tell, and it's still not that hard to aim. It's hard as fuck to be perfect, but maybe there's some correlation there.

 

Yeah, and Unreal Championship sucked. A lot of Halo 2 fans seem to like it, but I think that's mainly because it was similar to their game. Not to sound rude, but many Halo 2 fans were saying Unreal Championship was a good change was very similar to CoD players saying the latest Halo games are good games. Just let Unreal be Unreal and Halo be Halo.

 

Luckily, Epic didn't go full 343 and are restarting the series on PC. The new Unreal Tournament alpha is great!

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Yeah, and Unreal Championship sucked. A lot of Halo 2 fans seem to like it, but I think that's mainly because it was similar to their game. Let Unreal be Unreal and Halo be Halo. Not to sound rude, but many Halo 2 fans were saying Unreal Championship was a good change was very similar to CoD players saying the latest Halo games are good games. Just let Unreal be Unreal and Halo be Halo.

 

Luckily, Epic didn't go full 343 and are restarting the series on PC. The new Unreal Tournament alpha is great!

 

I'm so confused by this post.

 

Unreal Championship sucked? How? I don't remember Unreal Championship playing anything remotely like Halo 2.. Are you talking about a later Unreal? Like 3? If so 3 sucked in my opinion. Unreal came out in like early 2002 on xbox I have no idea where you're brining Halo 2 players or their opinions into the mix.

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Not everyone that plays halo wants to be good at it. they just have fun with it. they're not motivated enough to suck and practice and get good. BR starts is for people that are already decent at the game, or are willing to get better. not everyone else.

Lol whoever doesn't want to be good has no room to complain after losing... what kind of logic is that.

 

Halo is competitive by nature, and you should always strive to be the best / to win as soon as you enter Matchmaking... or the very least you can do is at least not complain you're not doing good if you don't care about winning.

 

Getting tired of devs who cater to modern pay-to-win gamers.

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Luckily, Epic didn't go full 343 and are restarting the series on PC. The new Unreal Tournament alpha is great!

 

It looks exactly like UT3 though...

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Not everyone that plays halo wants to be good at it. they just have fun with it. they're not motivated enough to suck and practice and get good. BR starts is for people that are already decent at the game, or are willing to get better. not everyone else.

That's why actually having a good ranking system would fix this.  You should never lower the skill cap of a game just to accommodate for people who aren't good at the game, you let ranks handle this.  If all the players in a game are bad, then the Br starts would be fine because non of them would be good/aware enough to cross map shooting, team shot etc, eliminating most of the complaints bad people have with the game

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I'm so confused by this post.

 

Unreal Championship sucked? How? I don't remember Unreal Championship playing anything remotely like Halo 2.. Are you talking about a later Unreal? Like 3? If so 3 sucked in my opinion. Unreal came out in like early 2002 on xbox I have no idea where you're brining Halo 2 players or their opinions into the mix.

 

The Unreal community only considers UT 99 and UT 04 as real UT games and are still the only active ones to this day. And Halo fans are the ones who defended UT's design on consoles plaguing the PC versions.

 

I love the Halo series and all, but at the time, many Halo fans didn't really care about the core mechanics of the original UT games and were defending the changes. Halo fans are dealing with the same problem now.

 

 

It looks exactly like UT3 though...

 

Okay? I'm talking about gameplay, not aesthetics.

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Lol whoever doesn't want to be good has no room to complain after losing... what kind of logic is that.

 

Halo is competitive by nature, and you should always strive to be the best / to win as soon as you enter Matchmaking... or the very least you can do is at least not complain you're not doing good if you don't care about winning.

 

Getting tired of devs who cater to modern pay-to-win gamers.

They're the type of people that play grifball, and did the racing maps. Just because they aren't competitive and don't view the game the same way we do doesn't mean they're less valuable than our community. They're far less vocal, so it's harder to notice them, but there are more people that approach the game from that point of view than there are us competitive Halo players. 

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I don't get what upsets people about BR starts, except that the AR isn't the all around dominant weapon anymore, and it takes some skill for noobs to aim. I still would rather have a buffed magnum and nerfed AR as starting weapons though, but I don't get what upsets people...

 

@Nj Pro, I support buffing slide to a point where you don't need to sprint for as long to use it. Most abilities that result from "terminal velocity" are very bad anyway. It's not balanced to run for a second to slide when you can just use thrusters instead. Spartan Charge is also a worthless melee that you have to commit to for way too long, and there's not even a toggle to turn it off. 

 

Terminal velocity's only use should be to prevent people from sprinting away until it's reached by knocking them out of sprint for taking damage. 

 

So here is my conspiracy theory on why the casuals hate BR starts:It is their TVs.

 

Most of these casual gamers play for the lore, the storyline of the campaign, and yada-yada on these massive HD TVs.

 

When it comes time to play multiplayer, they can not shoot for shit, specifically with precision weapons. Now yes i understand they wont have the aiming skill of your MLG guru, but they should not be on the level where it looks they have never played..

 

Causals simply hate BR starts because they cannot aim and not because they lack skill (anyone whose played all the campaigns i would imagine has decent aiming skills), but they cannot aim because of their TVs Millisecond Response time. 

 

Any TV with a response time greater than 2ms is garbarge for halo- we all know this. However, talk to the casuals and they say "response time what?"

 

It is not as noticeable when playing twitch shooter because of the fast kill times, but in halo's case you need to make sure you can land you shots- not just 1 shot and done. 

 

So TLDR; Casuals hate BR starts because they can not aim- and not because they lack skill- but because there TVs are hindering their ability. The worse part of it all is that the casuals are not even aware/don't care they are hindered by the TVs!

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They're the type of people that play grifball, and did the racing maps. Just because they aren't competitive and don't view the game the same way we do doesn't mean they're less valuable than our community. They're far less vocal, so it's harder to notice them, but there are more people that approach the game from that point of view than there are us competitive Halo players. 

I disagree. Someone who doesn't bother learning the game and understanding its intricate mechanics and what goes into it shouldn't have a say when it comes to design decisions. I consider myself qualified to voice my opinion on Halo because I spent thousands and thousands of hours on the game and understand what is needed for X result to happen and what are the negative impacts that Y might cause if changed.

 

For the record I love racing maps, and I have fun in Action Sack playlists, but that's not the point here. The point is that you don't ask a 12 year old for their opinion on what's wrong with your car, but you will ask someone who can break down a car and put it back together in a working manner. It's a simple matter of fact that some people aren't "qualified" to voice their opinion on the matter and should just refrain from doing so...

 

You don't see me asking for weapon spawn points to be moved on CE because I can't land a grenade launch from a specific spot I want. It's the same thing.

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The Unreal community only considers UT 99 and UT 04 as real UT games and are still the only active ones to this day. And Halo fans are the ones who defended UT's design on consoles plaguing the PC versions.

 

I love the Halo series and all, but at the time, many Halo fans didn't really care about the core mechanics of the original UT games and were defending the changes. Halo fans are dealing with the same problem now.

 

 

 

Okay? I'm talking about gameplay, not aesthetics.

 

 

Well we're discussing things I wasn't even bringing up, but what are the differences from UT03 to UT04? Wasn't it just UT03 with additional maps, gamemodes and vehicles? Also, didn't they actually fuck up the translocator from 03 to 04? Regardless, what design are you talking about? Unreal Championship (2002) was essentially a port of UT03 but didn't follow through on a lot of ambitious promises, such as 64 players per map.

 

I'm not denying that whatever you said happened, happened, but I just haven't seen it. What changes did the Halo community embrace that had hurt UT? I know that Unreal Championship was a good game, but Unreal Championship 2 and 3 on console were pretty bad like I said. I do see how halo fans are in a similar position to unreal fans though

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