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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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15 hours ago, Boyo said:

I would place a higher value on the opinion of an average player who grew up playing every Halo game than a reach kid who has dumped hundreds of hours into H5.  

I'm glad you value my opinion. Don't value it just because I played the games, however, lol. Value it for good logic.

On the real, imagine boiling down an argument into "you can't have an equal opinion unless you grew up playing these games". Age elitism? Helluh? Whew.

15 hours ago, Warlord Wossman said:

What do you guys mean? I have a screenshot of going +60 in BTB, doesn't that mean every map I forge is better, every meal I eat is tastier, every opinion I hold is worth more?

Of course you all would disagree, but your opinions are invalid because on the battlefield you are falling like ants.
You don't even have max rank in HCS, THE competitive playlist people play for money. Keep crouching around with shotguns in ranked Mythic and try to get close to my K/D, pathetic weekend warriors.

12 hours ago, OG Nick said:

Experience =/= good ideas 

But it's nutty that we're going back into the realm of shit or logic I never said or defended, while also not pinging me to actually initiate a convo, so one can whack off in presumed safety. Speaks volumes, but, you know. Keep at it, I guess.

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1 hour ago, TheIcePrincess said:

But it's nutty that we're going back into the realm of shit or logic I never said or defended, while also not pinging me to actually initiate a convo, so one can whack off in presumed safety. Speaks volumes, but, you know. Keep at it, I guess.

What? I’m not talking about you at all but okay? If you mean my message yesterday I messed up the tag and tried to fix it in edits. It’s not that deep

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2 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Value it for good logic.

Do you intentionally try to sound like Borat or is the overconfident ESL student just your typing style?

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31 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Do you intentionally try to sound like Borat or is the overconfident ESL student just your typing style?

Vicious deflection. 

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18 hours ago, Boyo said:

I would place a higher value on the opinion of an average player who grew up playing every Halo game than a reach kid who has dumped hundreds of hours into H5.  

There are tons of people who came in to the franchise with the later games, and have higher thought provoking opinions than ones who grew up with the games step by step. So thats a no for me chief.

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7 minutes ago, Ember Celica said:

There are tons of people who came in to the franchise with the later games, and have higher thought provoking opinions than ones who grew up with the games step by step. So thats a no for me chief.

Who are these people?  What are their opinions?  

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Still crazy how Mythic Arena is Halo 5 is the best Halo we've gotten since NBNS, and NBNS is decent at best. 

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21 hours ago, Ember Celica said:

There are tons of people who came in to the franchise with the later games, and have higher thought provoking opinions than ones who grew up with the games step by step.

Here's some spice for 2020: IMO Halo CE is nowhere near as fun as people here say it is. Sure it might be objectively better for competitive and I don't touch that debate, but for a social night with tourist friends, pizzas and drinks it is basically worthless compared to Halo 2/3 (unless you're good at it in which case they wouldn't be tourist gamers).

Myself and all my gaming friends have no interest in Halo CE as a social game.

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29 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

Here's some spice for 2020: IMO Halo CE is nowhere near as fun as people here say it is. Sure it might be objectively better for competitive and I don't touch that debate, but for a social night with tourist friends, pizzas and drinks it is basically worthless compared to Halo 2/3 (unless you're good at it in which case they wouldn't be tourist gamers).

Myself and all my gaming friends have no interest in Halo CE as a social game.

I just think CE lacks the tools for it to be welcoming to be welcoming

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Just now, OG Nick said:

I just think CE lacks the tools for it to be welcoming to be welcoming

I'd agree with that. I loved the shit out of it when it came out, but now that I'm older I realised that the skill ceiling is so high that there's this curve where you are so far ahead of your friends you literally can't play with them anymore unless they can come up to yours. Not good for social.

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4 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Here's some spice for 2020: IMO Halo CE is nowhere near as fun as people here say it is. Sure it might be objectively better for competitive and I don't touch that debate, but for a social night with tourist friends, pizzas and drinks it is basically worthless compared to Halo 2/3 (unless you're good at it in which case they wouldn't be tourist gamers).

Myself and all my gaming friends have no interest in Halo CE as a social game.

Halo 2 and 3 have even more of a Mario Party vibe than CE, so if you like that I could see how you say it's more fun for goofing around.
Personally have not played that much CE but I never felt like the skillgap was as giant as people claim, maybe that's more of a console perspective people hold tho. Having played a ton of Quake 3 / Live and even CPM just casually with friends I can't say getting stomped spoils the fun for me, can always call ggs and move to the next map or if it gets too bad just play some FFA or CTF with 8 people and make teams as fair as possible.
I honestly find it more annoying to die to "bullshit" weapons in Halo like the needler because that gun basically aims for itself and has way too much damage in the later titles. Think that stuff gets old quickly because you know they put it in the game so people who refuse to use the sticks can get kills, not that it really makes me mad but I just can't stand gimmicks as much as a solid shooter experience. Guess that's why I would take CE for social fun over the other Halos any day.

3 hours ago, Shekkles said:

I'd agree with that. I loved the shit out of it when it came out, but now that I'm older I realised that the skill ceiling is so high that there's this curve where you are so far ahead of your friends you literally can't play with them anymore unless they can come up to yours. Not good for social.

Not too sure about that, I guess it depends if the people you play with get frustrated by losing or not.
But I think I can see what you mean, I would say in 2v2s it can be hard to balance teams out so you get even games, should be easier with bigger teams.

Honestly just dislike how most modern shooters are watered down to even out the playing field these days - it feels too artificial I guess. And to me it feels better to get destroyed in a game I like than being able to get even games in some janky H3 setting with ghosts and bubbleshields, hard to explain.

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My experience with casuals is that they value fast kill times above all with a lot of different guns to shoot people being available. I would always use GP settings (IIRC with radar lol) when introducing people to Reach and they had a blast. Same for CE, once they discovered the pistol and dealt with the fact there's no sprint it was a success. 

Stuff like the disgusting art style and audio in H4 were a way bigger turn off that skill gap. Had one dude ask if my Xbox was overheating when the H2A announcer showed up because he sounds so deep fried. 

Nonsense like jump delay and the slow-mo vehicle physics are obviously dated though and should IMO get fixed in MCC but the purist will eat me alive for even saying that. 

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Halo Ce wasn't built as a party game, at least not as the modern definition of a party game.  Like every other old shooter it was built as a serious PvP-only experience...with some slightly less serious but still built on competition gametypes to offer variety (instagib, juggernaut, etc), with no support for more abstract goof around unscored minigames.  Because that's just how shooters were played and people didn't really conceive of playing them any other way.

Halo 3 and onward suffer from the opposite extreme, they weren't built to be anything EXCEPT party-games.  The core gameplay mechanics are just casual-pandering ass compared to the previous games, even the "serious" modes are infected with WUDNTITBEKEWLIF- gimmicks.  I don't find the majority of these shallow minigames appealing, so I have no reason to ever touch the game just like you have no reason to ever touch Ce.

But this is all extremely frustrating because there's no reason you can't have a mechanically solid game with all the party game shit thrown on the side, and just offer concessions to casuals through in-game options instead of baking accessibility into the game itself.

Like would your friends hate Ce if there was an option to spawn everyone with a slightly weaker, slightly easier variant gun instead?  At least Halo 5 had a few good ideas...

 

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halo ce has the best gameplay hands down but can be the most frustrating halo if your opponents are far above your skill level. its basically just you sitting in a spawn dying while your enemies are invisible have rockets and overshields. its especially bad on maps like derelict and wizzard. im more of a casual player/baddy but i would like to see halo gameplay go back to something similar to halo ce. maybe they could keep the spawning mechanic but design less maps where your just stuck spawning into death. maybe power ups could still be strong but in a different way. like quake weapon pickups are good but they arnt free kills.   

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40 minutes ago, boogerman said:

halo ce has the best gameplay hands down but can be the most frustrating halo if your opponents are far above your skill level. its basically just you sitting in a spawn dying while your enemies are invisible have rockets and overshields. its especially bad on maps like derelict and wizzard. im more of a casual player/baddy but i would like to see halo gameplay go back to something similar to halo ce. maybe they could keep the spawning mechanic but design less maps where your just stuck spawning into death. maybe power ups could still be strong but in a different way. like quake weapon pickups are good but they arnt free kills.   

The CE spawning system only works for doubles nothing else!  

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12 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Here's some spice for 2020: IMO Halo CE is nowhere near as fun as people here say it is. Sure it might be objectively better for competitive and I don't touch that debate, but for a social night with tourist friends, pizzas and drinks it is basically worthless compared to Halo 2/3 (unless you're good at it in which case they wouldn't be tourist gamers).

Myself and all my gaming friends have no interest in Halo CE as a social game.

That's cool. It's the complete opposite in my circle of friends, most of which dont game or own xbox's.

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12 hours ago, Warlord Wossman said:

Halo 2 and 3 have even more of a Mario Party vibe than CE, so if you like that I could see how you say it's more fun for goofing around.
Personally have not played that much CE but I never felt like the skillgap was as giant as people claim, maybe that's more of a console perspective people hold tho. Having played a ton of Quake 3 / Live and even CPM just casually with friends I can't say getting stomped spoils the fun for me, can always call ggs and move to the next map or if it gets too bad just play some FFA or CTF with 8 people and make teams as fair as possible.
I honestly find it more annoying to die to "bullshit" weapons in Halo like the needler because that gun basically aims for itself and has way too much damage in the later titles. Think that stuff gets old quickly because you know they put it in the game so people who refuse to use the sticks can get kills, not that it really makes me mad but I just can't stand gimmicks as much as a solid shooter experience. Guess that's why I would take CE for social fun over the other Halos any day.

Not too sure about that, I guess it depends if the people you play with get frustrated by losing or not.
But I think I can see what you mean, I would say in 2v2s it can be hard to balance teams out so you get even games, should be easier with bigger teams.

Honestly just dislike how most modern shooters are watered down to even out the playing field these days - it feels too artificial I guess. And to me it feels better to get destroyed in a game I like than being able to get even games in some janky H3 setting with ghosts and bubbleshields, hard to explain.

grafik.png

Dude your opinion is literally invalid, can't even go positive in a 3man octagon lmao yikes fam.

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14 hours ago, Warlord Wossman said:

Not too sure about that, I guess it depends if the people you play with get frustrated by losing or not.

Just replying to say I really enjoy the way you write, I always take the time to read your posts because they always come across as rational and not reactionary.

7 hours ago, boogerman said:

halo ce has the best gameplay hands down but can be the most frustrating halo if your opponents are far above your skill level. its basically just you sitting in a spawn dying while your enemies are invisible have rockets and overshields. its especially bad on maps like derelict and wizzard. im more of a casual player/baddy but i would like to see halo gameplay go back to something similar to halo ce. maybe they could keep the spawning mechanic but design less maps where your just stuck spawning into death. maybe power ups could still be strong but in a different way. like quake weapon pickups are good but they arnt free kills.   

Exactly this.

6 hours ago, Aphex Twin said:

That's cool. It's the complete opposite in my circle of friends, most of which dont game or own xbox's.

All my gaming friends bought an Xbox One for MCC, all of them sold it when Halo 5 launched. I wish I was kidding.

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2 hours ago, Basu said:

grafik.png

Dude your opinion is literally invalid, can't even go positive in a 3man octagon lmao yikes fam.

I think the real problem here is you winning Octagons by landslides, lol.

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I have to say Mythic Arena in H5 is the most fun I've had playing it in years, even if its fairly easy and some of the maps are kind of weird (like playing assault on the longest-esque map). Only thing that's draining is the horrible matchmaking experience when searching solo, it might be because of low pop but its kind of ridiculous getting a bronze player on my team vs 2 champs.

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8 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

I think the real problem here is you winning Octagons by landslides, lol.

The map is symmetrical. Not just one way but it has eight lines of symmetry. Plus everyone spawns with the same weapon and there are zero items on map. How is that not the best competitive map to play on? Probably the best way to test someone's skill in Halo. Honestly should be in HCS. The only downside is that with more than two players the enemy will sometimes not spawn right in front of you, which mean you can get shot in the back (objectively bad for competitive play). 

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9 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

I think the real problem here is you winning Octagons by landslides, lol.

Imagine going afk in a warmup gametype, only the best of the best never have to take a break and can deliver 24/7.

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Guys let’s me realistic, Halo is never gonna go the CE route again, with a 3sk hard-to-aim pistol and the like. Because the fact is, CE is too niche to have a broad appeal. The majority of Halo fans (both former and current) associate “classic” Halo with 2/3. Sure, CE is great and has the best gameplay with the most balanced sandbox and so on and so forth. But in the realm of marketing none of that is very relevant. If they go back to classic Halo—and that’s a big if—it sure won’t be like CE. Halo 3 is the likely candidate since that game was the most popular, to say nothing of the game itself.

And that’s a shame. Though make no mistake, I’d be more than satisfied if they made Infinite like Mythic Arena.

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CE has too much an entry barrier with the spawn system and just like H2 there is no way to teach people button glitches and quirks like quick camo and weapon nading. That plus stuff like dated graphics/animations and jump delay are the real "problems" with CE, not the core gameplay loop.

I don't think large parts of the population would riot if the starting weapon was more lethal but harder to aim. Design the rest of the sandbox around it and people would probably enjoy it because for once 50% of the sandbox wouldn't be useless garbage. I don't agree with the "popularity and skill gap are always on polar opposites" mantra that gets thrown around so much. I mean come on, H4 had a pathetic skill gap but was also the least popular game.

There's also the fact that 80% of sales are made because it says "Halo" on the box and most casuals just like the default state of the game and will play it regardless. If Reach launched ZBNS and the TU added bloom and sprint the casuals would want ZBNS back, I guarantee it. As long as there's a decent MM system in place so people don't get destroyed 24/7 and enough social playlists (that aren't an afterthought like H5's) the skill gap's impact on popularity is negligible at best.

I think bullshit like having more abilities than buttons on a controller and progression-based in-game advantages are a much bigger problem than the starting weapon being hard to use.

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@Shekkles, I've seen both sides of the spectrum with my casual friends.  I have some casual friends that love it. We play 4's together quite a bit. I think the strong starting weapon is the thing that helps them out the most. The longer kill times in the later games require them to be maintain accuracy longer and predict more, and they lose composure over longer fights. They also see their kills get away more often, and they still chase, which leads to more frustration. In CE they can kill what they see more often.

But I also have some casual friends that get frustrated by the opacity of the game's information. "Why am I spawning here?" "Why does he always have rockets?" etc.  And I understand that that's frustrating. But I put that more on the lack of tutorials, UI, and basic information in the game than on the mechanics itself. I've had too many casual friends have a blast with CE over the years to say that style of game can't be appealing to them. The game just needs to do a better job of teaching them how to play.

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