Jump to content
CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Recommended Posts

This is slowly but surely becoming a PC vs Console Halo argument.

  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

In CE 2v2 if you have camo and rockets and you get killed by a nade you got outplayed. YOU need to play smarter with your map movement. YOU need to be more aware of the enemy’s position. Maybe you are envisioning 4v4 CE on MCC with a bunch of randos chucking nades and if that’s the case I get where you’re coming from. I can assure you though that in CE 2v2 played with people that understand the game the nade throwing is anything but random. Each one is thrown with a purpose.

 

Good CE player: constructs mental picture of the map. Keeps track of enemy movement, spawn locations, and power up cycles to predict where an enemy player is likely to be. He throws a nade without ever seeing the enemy player and gets a kill.

 

CE player who doesn’t understand what just happened: “That was BS! He threw a lucky nade! That takes no skill!”

 

CE player who understands what just happened: “Wow that was a nice nade. I should have known he was going to nade that spot. I took a pretty predictable path and I deserved that. Next time I’ll play that scenario smarter.”

  • Upvote (+1) 8

Share this post


Link to post

This is slowly but surely becoming a PC vs Console Halo argument.

Which is so dumb. 

 

I love PC obviously, but I'd play Halo 6 on both to be able to play with different friends. Halo makes for an awesome console experience. 

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

I don't think anyone here likes accurate autos with headshot damage...

Nothing wrong with it if it doesn't aim for you like the AR in 5 does.

Share this post


Link to post

In CE 2v2 if you have camo and rockets and you get killed by a nade you got outplayed. YOU need to play smarter with your map movement. YOU need to be more aware of the enemy’s position. Maybe you are envisioning 4v4 CE on MCC with a bunch of randos chucking nades and if that’s the case I get where you’re coming from. I can assure you though that in CE 2v2 played with people that understand the game the nade throwing is anything but random. Each one is thrown with a purpose.

 

Good CE player: constructs mental picture of the map. Keeps track of enemy movement, spawn locations, and power up cycles to predict where an enemy player is likely to be. He throws a nade without ever seeing the enemy player and gets a kill.

 

CE player who doesn’t understand what just happened: “That was BS! He threw a lucky nade! That takes no skill!”

 

CE player who understands what just happened: “Wow that was a nice nade. I should have known he was going to nade that spot. I took a pretty predictable path and I deserved that. Next time I’ll play that scenario smarter.”

 

That would be far more impressive to me if you weren't able to shit out a near constant stream of "prediction" nades that cover huge portions of the map with each gigantic explosion. Obviously it's harder in 2v2 (even though you have twice as many nades guaranteed every spawn). That has nothing to do with this point. I'm not saying it's random. I'm saying that prediction isn't that complicated, it's very forgiving, it's very low risk, and you have dozens of opportunities connect with them per game.

 

Let's talk about CSGO (yes, yes, I know. Totally different game. Can't possibly compare ANYTHING between them). The HE grenade? The blast radius is much smaller. The damage output is much lower. Throw trajectory is heavily influenced by your direction and movement speed (i.e. harder to throw consistently). You have to make the decision to buy it at the beginning of the round, which prevents you from investing in other equipment or different utility and could have an economy impact in later rounds. You have to switch to it before throwing it, which makes you vulnerable to someone peeking you with a grenade in your hand. If you want to nade stack a position or a timing (i.e. do Halo nade equivalent damage), you have ONE opportunity to do it for the round and then you're out of HEs. It's a very limited resource that is very easy to waste.

 

​I'm not suggesting that Halo nades should be identical to that, but a nice middle-ground between that and a near constant stream of easy, low risk nukes would be a good improvement.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I'm somewhat repeating myself but:

 

Plasma Rifle with perfect accuracy (No Spread, No Bloom), headshot damage modifier, and adjusted projectile speed.  Nothing unskillful about that kind of weapon, in fact has a very huge delta between theoretical and average killtime.  Deserves to kill faster than the utility if someone can actually land 100% headshots.

 

Any game with explosives is going to use them in a similar manner.

 

And I'm not trying to be an ass, or combative, but if you hate/dislike so much of things that make up Halo (ie Nades, Power Ups, Descope, Power weapons, melee) Why not play something more your liking? Quake & UT are good, sometimes better, alternatives but they still have rockets and stuff. People are just happier playing things they enjoy, and I just want y'all to have fun. Or something.

 

I feel I should clarify I'm not asking for anything to be removed, I'm just criticizing mechanics that I more merely tolerate instead of enjoy.

 

Melee needs nerfed, otherwise it can stay.  More depth wouldn't hurt.

Grenades need nerfed (from Ce), but otherwise can stay.  I don't really have a problem with them as a concept at all.

Reloading and Descope are a minor nuisance but far from being the end of the world.

Power Ups I have no problem with in concept, though they can definitely be better designed than OS and Camo are.

 

"Power Weapons" I hate.  Halo Ce did not have "power weapons" other than the Rockets and situationally the Sniper.  It had fast spawning alternatives to the spawn weapon like pretty much any AFPS to come before it.  Ultra powerful weapons with long spawn times that completely shit on the spawn weapon are just bad design for several reasons.

 

Frankly though these conversations are worth having anyways.  Just because something has been in Halo for ages doesn't mean it's automatically a good thing, and just because people dislike aspects of the games doesn't necessarily mean they "hate Halo"..  Everything is worth scrutinizing, especially if you're an aspiring game designer.

 

Quake Rockets and Halo Rockets are completely different.

UT's Redeemer or Quake's BFG is more similar to what Rockets are in Halo.

Quake and UT are dead.  :[

Share this post


Link to post

I'm somewhat repeating myself but:

 

Plasma Rifle with perfect accuracy (No Spread, No Bloom), headshot damage modifier, and adjusted projectile speed.  Nothing unskillful about that kind of weapon, in fact has a very huge delta between theoretical and average killtime.  Deserves to kill faster than the utility if someone can actually land 100% headshots.

 

 

I feel I should clarify I'm not asking for anything to be removed, I'm just criticizing mechanics that I more merely tolerate instead of enjoy.

 

Melee needs nerfed, otherwise it can stay.  More depth wouldn't hurt.

Grenades need nerfed (from Ce), but otherwise can stay.  I don't really have a problem with them as a concept at all.

Reloading and Descope are a minor nuisance but far from being the end of the world.

Power Ups I have no problem with in concept, though they can definitely be better designed than OS and Camo are.

 

"Power Weapons" I hate.  Halo Ce did not have "power weapons" other than the Rockets and situationally the Sniper.  It had fast spawning alternatives to the spawn weapon like pretty much any AFPS to come before it.  Ultra powerful weapons with long spawn times that completely shit on the spawn weapon are just bad design for several reasons.

 

Frankly though these conversations are worth having anyways.  Just because something has been in Halo for ages doesn't mean it's automatically a good thing, and just because people dislike aspects of the games doesn't necessarily mean they "hate Halo"..  Everything is worth scrutinizing.

 

Quake Rockets and Halo Rockets are completely different.

UT's Redeemer or Quake's BFG is more similar to what Rockets are in Halo.

Quake and UT are dead.  :[

CE melees are the best in the series, and when people were discussing how to make them better an arguement about how they should be removed and how dumb they are started. Then grenades started being talked about being removed, and yes nothing in Halo is perfect grenades could and should be looked at. But ever since, shocker, CE nades have only been to cause damage with no other utility. Descoping can feel good or bad depending on the game. In H5 descoping feels like ass, but it didn't feel bad in older games. Obviously that's all subjective and whatnot but no descoping feels "smooth" but also "easy".

 

CE sandbox is also the best in the series. Rockets in CE punish the most for missing, which is due to the pistol and the long time between rockets.

 

I know they're different, I meant the Redeemer or BFG

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Its really important to remember when talking about all of this stuff that this IS a console game. Stuff like flinch/recoil patterns have to not exist or be very minimal if you want skill based gameplay. Nobody is that precise with a controller. Same thing applies to melees and grenades

Share this post


Link to post

I want Boyo back :(

 

What? Destiny has all kinds of problems. None of them are weak melee/grenades.

 

If anything, the main reasons people think nuke grenades and melee are such a big deal for "outplays" in Halo (and they aren't exactly wrong) are:

 

1. Excessively long kill times.

2. Small shooting skill gap.

 

1vX scenarios without one of these abilities that instantly deal large amounts of damage go downhill very quickly, even if you have superior positioning and the element of surprise. Head to head gun fights against decent (and even not-so-decent) players in any Halo game are practically guaranteed to leave you one shot. CE fares the best here, as a result of its faster kill time, but even being generous with its aim assist skill gap you're still dealing with 2/3 body shots in a perfect kill. Nuke them with a grenade and now you have a much bigger advantage. Same goes for getting a melee in and being lucky enough not to trade.

 

These are much the same reasons button combos were in H2 were so influential. Kill times were long and shooting was easy as hell, but button glitches empowered individuals to make plays in a way that the intended core design didn't really allow. In context, it's arguably a positive addition, but why not just address the problems it is ultimately a band-aid for: long kill times and a small shooting skill gap? That's basically the same question I'm asking about the accepted tuning of grenades and melee in Halo.

 

Halo grenades. You're guaranteed 2 on spawn in 4v4. There is often a healthy supply of them on the map or from dead bodies. There is minimal risk in most cases to using them. One button press at any time. Short animation. Regularly mortar likely spawns and common routes and hope you get some poor bastard you couldn't see one shot ("prediction nades"). Get really lucky and you might end up with a SICK cluster-luck (sick as in it makes me nauseous). Chuck one at the beginning of a gun fight to skip 60-80% of the shooting (depending on the game), might even hit multiple players. Hell might as well chuck one as a last ditch effort in a gun fight and hope the enemy misses or you get a kill from the grave. The nonlethal utility in CE is the most interesting thing grenades have ever done and that's literally the only game that really did it (lol H5 weapon nading).

 

​Granted, they are probably at their worst in H5, but I think people are too fixated on the arbitrary "golden triangle" model as some timeless gospel of essential Halo pillars to examine problems some of these mechanics might have.

 

 

 

You may very well be right, so I guess it's worth noting that two of my pre-requisites for melee/grenade nerfs would be faster kill times and a meaningful shooting skill gap. I'm also fairly interested in the possibilities for expanding non-lethal grenade utility (e.g. CE item-nading, or CS:GO utility in general). My problem is with high damage, large blast radius frag spam and "walk forward and punch" melee in particular. That said, Halo 5 grenades are just absurd and melee lunge was never necessary or a good idea.

 

I don't have any real problem with backsmacks.

Destiny 1&2 are literally the easiest console games to aim in that I've played in ever. I still have no idea how some people on this forum were hyped for that game's pvp.

Share this post


Link to post

Melee. Grenades. Guns. Those three tools used in conjunction with each other to control the map and pace of the game are what made Halo, Halo. Now people are advocating removing melee and grenades? I don't understand.

 

We still have sprint in Halo need I remind you.

  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

I hate to say it but reading kelly's post regarding OS and powerups and her dislike for them reminds me very much so of Quinn's line of thinking for adding the flagnum and removing the ability to juggle the flag. While I can understand being frustrated, I just can't agree with that logic. He felt that if you made the decision to cut off the flag carrier successfully he shouldn't be able to drop the flag and rocket you "randomly" even though it was a conscious decision by that team to secure that weapon initially.

 

I made a post copying bonesaw's post about the thought process of finding and killing a camo guy on HeH. To me, it's pretty straightforward on just how many possible scenarios can happen and what information you can use to predict that player. The person who secures camo on HeH than moves to the random on bottom camo ramp then gets naded made one of the most predictable plays possible and is punished for it. Did you get hit by a nade then pick up camo? You have low health then and have to make the decision to push for the health pack bottom mid, which is still predictable. If you die while down there, congrats, you didn't die because the opponent made a lucky guess, you just played incredibly predictable.

 

I can understand that there are some issues with the series currently but we have a lot of options to look over and ways to improve these areas. Simply removing nades and melees to me sounds like a terrible idea compared to some other options. If you are getting into mindless melee battles constantly and are just dying to "random" nades over and over well then there's probably some areas of gameplay that can be improved. 

 

I am with you on this.  If someone picks up camo and i don't know, well shit me and my team should have been cognizant of it.  If i do know then i know the routes around the map, i know where my teammates are and i know the limited number of possibilities they could take.  Thats brings up one thing that you could do reliably in past halo's that you can't in sprint halo.  OG trilogy without sprint you knew how long certain routes took.  If there are 3 options for a player to be coming from, you could make like a quarterback and check the options in turn based on how long that route would take.  Or you could nade one option to delay that route and check the other 2 etc etc.  With sprint halo, you can't really do this anymore because of the variability of movement speed.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

The two things in CE that bug me are how powerful the grenades are and the floaty movement. Everything else is great.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm all for optimizing Halo's competitive experience, but if we're going to be changing Halo's identity in the process then we're no better than 343 at that point. Melees and grenades are core aspects of Halo. Let's make them better, not remove them.

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

That would be far more impressive to me if you weren't able to shit out a near constant stream of "prediction" nades that cover huge portions of the map with each gigantic explosion. Obviously it's harder in 2v2 (even though you have twice as many nades guaranteed every spawn). That has nothing to do with this point. I'm not saying it's random. I'm saying that prediction isn't that complicated, it's very forgiving, it's very low risk, and you have dozens of opportunities connect with them per game.

 

Let's talk about CSGO (yes, yes, I know. Totally different game. Can't possibly compare ANYTHING between them). The HE grenade? The blast radius is much smaller. The damage output is much lower. Throw trajectory is heavily influenced by your direction and movement speed (i.e. harder to throw consistently). You have to make the decision to buy it at the beginning of the round, which prevents you from investing in other equipment or different utility and could have an economy impact in later rounds. You have to switch to it before throwing it, which makes you vulnerable to someone peeking you with a grenade in your hand. If you want to nade stack a position or a timing (i.e. do Halo nade equivalent damage), you have ONE opportunity to do it for the round and then you're out of HEs. It's a very limited resource that is very easy to waste.

 

​I'm not suggesting that Halo nades should be identical to that, but a nice middle-ground between that and a near constant stream of easy, low risk nukes would be a good improvement.

 

I don’t disagree with a lot of what you say. CE nades could be made a little harder and I wouldn’t be opposed to either having a severe damage drop off on the outer edges of the blast radius or having an all or none damage grenade but with a smaller radius to put more emphasis on placement and timing to make it feel less random. Another thing that would indirectly nerf the grenades without actually changing them at all would to just be to up base movement speed 10%. Random nades would be become much easier to dodge and I think a base movement speed increase would improve the gameplay in plenty of different areas for the better. It is important to remember that Halo and CS aren’t the same type of game and they operate differently. There is no economy in Halo. It is much closer to an arena shooter in its design. If nades are too spammy lowering the spawn count and the amount on map are good solutions. It is also important to remember that Halo isn’t a PC game but a console game that has to find ways to work around the disadvantage of controller play. Change your perspective to think of Halo as being an arena shooter that actually starts you off with four weapons all with unique abilities and niche uses. 1. A utility that is hard to use but kills fast and is good for engagement at most distances. 2. A secondary with much less killing power but other niche uses like quick camo or faster draw time. 3. A grenade launcher that has a long firing animation with a slow projectile speed and arching trajectory but also highly lethal. 4. Every weapon also acts as an extreme CQB melee weapon each with their own characteristics. The solution to the problems created by nades and melee is to make them more difficult to use and more risk/reward to reward their proper use and punish using them as a crutch. The solution is not just to accuse them of being no skill, noob abilities and completely removing them from the game there by completetely stripping Halo of what makes it the unique console shooter that it is. You should be just as cautious of stripping a core fundamental ability from Halo as you are of adding a new ability. Removing nades from CE would change the way the game is played just as much as adding sprint would.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

no descope was extremely gay in halo 4. Not being able to contest a scoped weapon like the sniper was ass.

Oh, yeah, I should've prefaced it with "balance it to power weapons like the sniper". Descoping should be an exclusive thing to stuff like that. Or tracking weapons like the Hydra.

 

it doesn't bother me that there are more ways to damage a player without a gun. It bothers me when it's just too easy or powerful to do so. Like, let's take halo ces melee, reduce the power a fair amount, and reduce aim assisting. That way you encourage using a gun more often but introduce s risk/reward dynamic in using melee to quicken the kill time if you connect. Remove the differing damage values based on movement. All of that plays a miniscule role tbh.

That's basically been my point in this, lol. And that's the thing, if you reduce melee power, what's the point of having melee even. You're basically just being pushed to fire your gun which is probably more powerful at that point, making melee useless and just there to be there. Unless you're doing some creation style fine tuning. The concept of quickening killtime would be fine if melee didn't have a long animation that takes up enough space for someone to fire their gun and kill you already in the optimal Halo. Would you buff melee speed? If so, why not just spam melee. But it just seems like an oddly specific amount of tuning would go into making melee at least not mindlessly stupid. I don't mind keeping backsmacks for the sake of a sneaky play, whatever that means given you'll be effectively called out in any remotely competitive environment and people will see you, nonetheless, but eh. The punishment factor's there, sure, though.

I hate to say it but reading kelly's post regarding OS and powerups and her dislike for them reminds me very much so of Quinn's line of thinking for adding the flagnum and removing the ability to juggle the flag. While I can understand being frustrated, I just can't agree with that logic. He felt that if you made the decision to cut off the flag carrier successfully he shouldn't be able to drop the flag and rocket you "randomly" even though it was a conscious decision by that team to secure that weapon initially.

 

I made a post copying bonesaw's post about the thought process of finding and killing a camo guy on HeH. To me, it's pretty straightforward on just how many possible scenarios can happen and what information you can use to predict that player. The person who secures camo on HeH than moves to the random on bottom camo ramp then gets naded made one of the most predictable plays possible and is punished for it. Did you get hit by a nade then pick up camo? You have low health then and have to make the decision to push for the health pack bottom mid, which is still predictable. If you die while down there, congrats, you didn't die because the opponent made a lucky guess, you just played incredibly predictable.

 

I can understand that there are some issues with the series currently but we have a lot of options to look over and ways to improve these areas. Simply removing nades and melees to me sounds like a terrible idea compared to some other options. If you are getting into mindless melee battles constantly and are just dying to "random" nades over and over well then there's probably some areas of gameplay that can be improved.

I don't need to die to them over and over again for there to be an issue. Hell, simply performing the act makes me remember there is an issue. 

 

And you entirely misrepresent my argument regarding OS and the comparison to Quinn. My argument wasn't on the predictive or random nature of obtaining the powerup. It was how the powerup is a crutch, even for players who already suck. Yes, it's a conscious decision to grab it, and grabbing it can have stupid effects on the game. Also, it was on how it wasn't something I could necessarily improve on given how situational grabbing dumb shit like that can be. Simply spawning can fuck me out of that opportunity when I have no control over it. It not being in my control 24/7 doesn't make it random necessarily because of factors like OS respawn time and prediction for that, but getting killed by it isn't always the result of a lack of skill but circumstance, sometimes, which is my issue. When I dick on some kid and then he just ends up picking up OS and beating me in battles of attrition only because of said powerup, then I have an issue with how the powerup works at a base. Not the fact people pick things up, which I'm fine with.

  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Oh, yeah, I should've prefaced it with "balance it to power weapons like the sniper". Descoping should be an exclusive thing to stuff like that. Or tracking weapons like the Hydra.

 

That's basically been my point in this, lol. And that's the thing, if you reduce melee power, what's the point of having melee even. You're basically just being pushed to fire your gun which is probably more powerful at that point, making melee useless and just there to be there. Unless you're doing some creation style fine tuning. The concept of quickening killtime would be fine if melee didn't have a long animation that takes up enough space for someone to fire their gun and kill you already in the optimal Halo. Would you buff melee speed? If so, why not just spam melee. But it just seems like an oddly specific amount of tuning would go into making melee at least not mindlessly stupid. I don't mind keeping backsmacks for the sake of a sneaky play, whatever that means given you'll be effectively called out in any remotely competitive environment and people will see you, nonetheless, but eh. The punishment factor's there, sure, though.

 

I don't need to die to them over and over again for there to be an issue. Hell, simply performing the act makes me remember there is an issue.

 

And you entirely misrepresent my argument regarding OS and the comparison to Quinn. My argument wasn't on the predictive or random nature of obtaining the powerup. It was how the powerup is a crutch, even for players who already suck. Yes, it's a conscious decision to grab it, and grabbing it can have stupid effects on the game. Also, it was on how it wasn't something I could necessarily improve on given how situational grabbing dumb shit like that can be. Simply spawning can fuck me out of that opportunity when I have no control over it. It not being in my control 24/7 doesn't make it random necessarily because of factors like OS respawn time and prediction for that, but getting killed by it isn't always the result of a lack of skill but circumstance, sometimes, which is my issue. When I dick on some kid and then he just ends up picking up OS and beating me in battles of attrition only because of said powerup, then I have an issue with how the powerup works at a base. Not the fact people pick things up, which I'm fine with.

It's possible I'm misrepresenting your argument but I still see there's a similarity there. In your situation, the OS is a crutch and in Quinn's situation the rockets are being used as a crutch. His solution was to remove the ability to drop the flag all together. I feel removing OS all together is a similar comparison.

 

I mean I get it, there's plenty of times where your teammates are playing terrible. No map control, no communication, no going for power ups. I won't deny that it sucks or is frustrating but it's a team game and it's possible. I'd much rather keep a lot of these core concepts that work at a team level rather than throw them out completely because as an individual you are running into issues. At the very least attempt to see if there's a better way to implement the mechanics instead of ommitting them all together.

 

There's more to my opinion on melee/nades but I'm out to eat now. Could post more later but definitely think it's better to keep them in and work on them then omit them entirely.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

So okay. I jumped in late because I read some replies at work and i didn't know my info.

Halo is half guesses and half execution. You will not win any game regardless of nades, beatdowns, powerups, without guessing. Predicting your opponent is what makes halo such a good game and is an integral part of it. Say you are top mid on guardian and your opponent is s2. You get him one shot and he backs down to br spawn. Now both of you are about to play a guessing game. you HAVE to guess whether he goes to s1, s3, or stays still and goes to s2 and possibly flank you if you went s3 or if you went s1 he could flank if he went from top s1 ramp to s2 at the right time. halo has SO MANY GUESSES. if you guess/predict the guy with camo rockets os is going to be heading down route C, and you flick a nade there and kill him because of it. YOU OUTPLAYED HIM. he knows you could have flicked a nade there but still went there. that's on him. and on the flip side, you miss time/miss your grenade / miss your finishing shot, you now gave up your position and you are now easier to kill (failing the execution part).



also we've played with 2 nade spawns on CE for a couple months because it was broken on MCC for that long. It was not as fun. It's more snowbally when you are weakened like that off spawn. It's much harder to kill people on prisoner because it's easier to dodge 2 nades than 4 and grenades are the only item you have that can reach people hiding window corner, os spawn, red 3, or snipe spawns from the bottom. 

 

without double melee in CE. the pistol/sniper/rockets/shotgun/pr kill faster than 2 beat downs. and the pistol/sniper/shotgun kill faster than beatdown + pistol shot from the opponent. You can duck melees with crouching. certain guns have longer ranges so you can abuse that to win melee battles (see sig). 

 

honestly it sounds like ice princess wants us to play 4v4s in octagon so there is no guessing available. Or something like amplified realistically. He just wants 50-100 br battles a game. 

 

If you give your opponent the ability to score OS and lose because of it, that's on you. there are no unavoidable situations in halo in hindsight. You are just picking the wrong options if you think you unfairly lost a battle over obtaining a powerup/weapon. 

 

 

There are games where every move one and your opponent can make are set within certain rules (chess) and games where it is more free flowing (halo, super smash bros melee). Obviously every video games has their own rules but idk how to word it okay. 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

And on another note. I think double melees from CE are a good addition. Are they completely balanced? lol no. But they're fun and exciting and skillful with a bit of risk. It balances weapons like rockets/shotgun/sniper/pistol because you can't just take your time lining up your shot if you get in close range. One does not lightly travel down pink hallway on chillout with rockets. Getting a clutch double melee feels good and it's something that would make people get up off their feet like a noscope headshot would in halo 3. it's skillful in the aspect that you have to dodge your name, get close to the opponent without him knowing or beat the opponent who has the same option to double melee as you do, and has a decent technical skill. It's not easy to press y b l b while keeping your reticle on the person (no bumper jumper). the high fov makes spartans really fast up close so they go off your screen quickly. Just watch any vods. 

 

here is one i saw on my feed the other day. 

 

https://streamable.com/3fk1y guy who missed this? ranked #13 on the PR in 2014. 

 

http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/6963-halo-1-players-power-rankings-current/

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

It's possible I'm misrepresenting your argument but I still see there's a similarity there. In your situation, the OS is a crutch and in Quinn's situation the rockets are being used as a crutch. His solution was to remove the ability to drop the flag all together. I feel removing OS all together is a similar comparison.

 

I mean I get it, there's plenty of times where your teammates are playing terrible. No map control, no communication, no going for power ups. I won't deny that it sucks or is frustrating but it's a team game and it's possible. I'd much rather keep a lot of these core concepts that work at a team level rather than throw them out completely because as an individual you are running into issues. At the very least attempt to see if there's a better way to implement the mechanics instead of ommitting them all together.

 

There's more to my opinion on melee/nades but I'm out to eat now. Could post more later but definitely think it's better to keep them in and work on them then omit them entirely.

Except it's not similar at all. Removing the ability to flag juggle has hilariously noticeable impacts on CTF in general. Slow movement, lack of efficient flag runs, etc. It may not have much of an impact on lower level games, but higher level games will consistently suffer from it. Removing OS is nowhere near that level. Sure it can change games, but not every map has an OS, and the lack of it doesn't break any gametype or map.

 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Except it's not similar at all. Removing the ability to flag juggle has hilariously noticeable impacts on CTF in general. Slow movement, lack of efficient flag runs, etc. It may not have much of an impact on lower level games, but higher level games will consistently suffer from it. Removing OS is nowhere near that level. Sure it can change games, but not every map has an OS, and the lack of it doesn't break any gametype or map.

 

They aren’t 1:1 comparisons, but they are similar in that both would be examples of removing functional, well-received features due to projecting personal bias as a mechanical flaw.

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

I just realized we've never tried Halo where only sniper rifles can be descoped.

Share this post


Link to post

I just realized we've never tried Halo where only sniper rifles can be descoped.

Hopefully we never do.

  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.