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CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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There is no FPS that exists where the the majority of the Sandbox is used in high-tier competitive play.

 

This argument is false when we look at fortnite

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This argument is false when we look at fortnite

High level competitive play is false when we look at fortnite.

 

C'mon now. You cant seriously compare to RNG based anything.

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This argument is false when we look at fortnite

Fortnite gives you like 5 weapon slots though lol, and doesn't really have a "high-tier competitive play" mode yet, so not really the best comparison...

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How about we stop and realize fortnite is not an FPS before that goes any further lol

 

Being this uninformed

 

JPTiEaL.jpg

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Fortnite is legitimately one the most random multiplayer videogames ever made. lmao. I would take high level Mario Party more seriously.

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Fortnite is legitimately one the most random multiplayer videogames ever made. lmao. I would take high level Mario Party more seriously.

Better watch out, I'm a pro at those minigames

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A very large majority of it is Pistol. You can get away with just using that and Rockets with the occasional AR for a BLB. That said, the same is true for any Halo game.

 

No you're totally right. Good kids never quick camo.

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Halo CE encourages using the rest of the sandbox more than any other Halo game- until you get to launch halo 5 which made autos and every weapon on map piss easy.

 

H5 is the exact wrong way foster engagement with the sandbox. A powerful utility weapon with niche pickups fosters map movemwnt, interesting decision making, and unique combat scenarios.

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No you're totally right. Good kids never quick camo.

I didn't say it was the most optimal way to play.

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I didn't say it was the most optimal way to play.

If you’re playing someone of equal skill and the only weapon swap you make is AR for Rockets, chances are you’re going to lose really badly, assuming everyone knows how to play of course. I disagree that you can “get by” doing that unless you’re playing in the TS playlist.

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I think all of the Quake games actually do a good job of making weapons situational. I can recall alot of different times just in QC where the announcer (former pro usually) has gone off on a player during an event for not switching weapons to adapt to the situation.

 

Yes, perfect weapon switching in Quake is a skill in itself. Just remember your opponent always switches weapons faster than you in Quake and thats why you got fragged.

 

Im so ancient I remember things like instant weapon switching in quake world. But after playing q3 / quake live for a while I finally started to like delayed switch much better. Or maybe its just because my brain is used to it now? Hmm..there hasnt been insta-weapon switching in a FPS for awhile to compare it too. It's true that it makes things slower paced and gives you less freedom, but it is still great fun using combinations to kill opponents.
 
For example in quake live you have fast shooting guns like the plasma and lightning gun. You switch quickly from those to either a rocket or rail gun. So the combinations should be plasma first then rail, or lightning first then rocket. If you do it the other way around you get a large delay, because rocket and rail are slow shooting weapons.
So you end up with some strategy in the kill combinations. But I still understand why people love insta-switch and now Quake Champions feels slower than q3/cpma which makes the classic combos feel a little more clunky but maybe its just the fluctuating latency I dont know.
 
On the topic of "most well balanced competitive FPS" I also have to give a shout out to Urban Terror (/Q3, though I say UrT just because I have more experience with it.
 
No killstreaks, no rewards, no custom weapons, just plain skill. The equipment available to you on your first game, is the same stuff you can get if you ever go on to win league matches.
 
The maps are for the most part very well balanced, barring one or two with bad spawn points (Uptown I'm looking at you).
 
The weapons are diverse and offer a wide range of options depending on the player. The only "one hit kill" weapon in the bunch is the sr8, which requires literally years to become good enough to use in any sort of real competition, and even then it's been nerfed to hell.
 
You need a direct chest or head shot to kill, legs or arms just gets you 50% damage. If you get hit, you automatically unscope. No scoping is damn near impossible if you're not within 2 feet of the person.The level of competition is so clearly different that often times a good player will go 25-1 in k/d ratio, easily (if they bother to play pubs at all). Man I miss playing this game even if I wasn't that great at it.
 
Unreal Tournament too, I say UT2k4 over UT 99' overall had this debate a hundred times but UT2k4 is just much more refined in terms of weapon balance, skill-gap with precision weapons requiring pixel perfect accuracy, no overlording weapons like the sniper,ect,, even if it makes it less fun to play in pubs. Pretty much any of the gods of death match have cooler and more diverse weapons than any modern FPS I have bothered to waste my time with today and that is not opinion that is just fact if you've played both. So much artistic and creative talent is spent on designing a pizza skin for the hundreth AR-like weapon instead of designing truly unique memorable weapons in aesthetics and functionality. Its like why is DS1 the greatest? Because the end-game weapons are cooler than pretty much any single-player RPG, great signature weapons equals a great game regardless of genre.
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I deal with this all the time. "There's no reason to ever use the AR, or pick up the Plasma Rifle." Bitch, you have no idea what you're talking about. People that say that and claim the pistol is OP just don't understand the game at a basic level.

like I said this is what majority say. Not everyone started halo on ce

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Halo CE encourages using the rest of the sandbox more than any other Halo game- until you get to launch halo 5 which made autos and every weapon on map piss easy.

 

H5 is the exact wrong way foster engagement with the sandbox. A powerful utility weapon with niche pickups fosters map movemwnt, interesting decision making, and unique combat scenarios.

in terms of ease of use that should end but I liked h5/4s sandbox well in terms of weapon functionality but only in precision weapon categories tbh. Autos too op

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I just want a 4sk primary again.  I don't even care as much about kill time (within reason),  something about firing 4 times instead of 5 just feels better.

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I just wish we could have things like BxR back. Its hard to understate how much more hype it is when you just throw someone in the trash because they had first few shots and made the mistake of running at you for a melee as you turn to them vs the automatic death. That's not even random or skill gap reducing since the player up shots could've played the situation better by keeping distance and retaining the shot advantage. Melee combat in Halo is just so bad without something like that. Its actually crazy that CE and H2 showed that basic button combos can actually add another fun dimension to a shooter and pretty much nobody took the idea and ran with it outside of the Gears perfect reload

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Maybe it’s an unpopular opinion, but I always thought the damage buff from active reloads was really stupid. I like reloading in Gears, but it should only be a time advantage. The extra damage and change in properties like a straighter Boomshot trajectory are just dumb, seeing as all you did to earn it was reload your gun. It leads to people silly stuff like people keeping their weapon empty until they’re ready to use it. It’s especially stupid because there’s NO way to tell someone has active rounds by looking at them. I’ve been saying it for years. The end of your barrel should glow orange if you have actives.

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I just wish we could have things like BxR back. Its hard to understate how much more hype it is when you just throw someone in the trash because they had first few shots and made the mistake of running at you for a melee as you turn to them vs the automatic death. That's not even random or skill gap reducing since the player up shots could've played the situation better by keeping distance and retaining the shot advantage. Melee combat in Halo is just so bad without something like that. Its actually crazy that CE and H2 showed that basic button combos can actually add another fun dimension to a shooter and pretty much nobody took the idea and ran with it outside of the Gears perfect reload

 

BXR is cancer because you can only do it with a full clip which results in exactly the "you shoot me first and now I can glitch and turn the fight around" (oversimplification I know, but it's the base premise of rewarding people for being down in a fight that irks me), but stuff like double shot/quad shot and BLB in CE are awesome I agree. Just anything that will make melee combat more than "press B to win" would be good at this point.

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BXR is cancer because you can only do it with a full clip which results in exactly the "you shoot me first and now I can glitch and turn the fight around", but stuff like double shot/quad shot and BLB in CE are awesome I agree. Just anything that will make melee combat more than "press B to win" would be good.

The full clip aspect of the BXR was the only thing that kept it in check (and it’s possible to do it anyways with a different combo). It was a fortunate balance glitch. If you get first shot but end up getting BXR’d, you got outplayed, pure and simple. You have to know that it’s the highest rewarding option he has, and play to deny it. He has to fully commit to it to even attempt it, running straight at you without shooting.

 

If anything, the glitch that lets you melee/shoot WITHOUT a full clip is the shitty glitch because it removes the counterbalance and just becomes a “why wouldn’t you just always do this” scenario.

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Melee's should be treated like really really short range projectiles.  You should still have to aim them to land.  Now you can just have someone on any section of your screen or even off your screen entirely in some cases and land melees.

 

I thought about this some more and edited:

 

I would like to see something like BYB, but forced to be done quickly.  Do it fast, and the second melee is just a bare fisted punch. Too slow and you have to wait for the whole weapon swap animation to complete before you can melee again. You could also make something like Melee+gun fire every so slightly faster than double-melee. So as far as melee speed is concerned from fastest to slowest it would be:

 

BYB

B RT

BB

B Y    B

 

This makes BYB the riskiest, 2 hit kill but also the fastest.  Get the cadence right and aim at the same time (pre-req is that you would actually need to aim your melees again) and you get the fastest CQC kill. Fuck it up and you're probably screwed. Melee and fire or double melee are in between.  Something like this is still welcoming to noobs since the standard melee tactics are intact, increases the skill gap in melee battles without raising the skill floor, and would reduce the likelihood of double-melee trades.

 

I mean, that might actually be a terrible idea, though the more i think about it the more i like it, but the point is there are ways that the whole melee system could be improved to actually have some sort of dynamic play to it.

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Honestly melees should have no magnetism and no lunge(or the lunge should be short as hell) man I swear I’ve been melee’d too many times where the stupid fuck wasn’t looking at me at all. There really needs to be a counter to melee’s. Something like the sword block from reach

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Honestly melees should have no magnetism and no lunge(or the lunge should be short as hell) man I swear I’ve been melee’d too many times where the stupid fuck wasn’t looking at me at all. There really needs to be a counter to melee’s. Something like the sword block from reach

The only reason i am ok with a small lunge, more like H3 than H2 or H5, is because its good feedback that your melee landed.  Sometimes with the player model that close and possible fire damage being taken at the same time, it can be hard to spot the shield flare.  If there is another way to indicate a melee landed very clearly without a lunge, that would probably be preferable.  The way i see it is that thrust is not going anywhere either, so if someone wants to get in range quickly, they can just use that.  The downtime between thrust and melee should probably be a little shorter, as should the thrust itself.

 

I see a game like Overwatch do melee's with 0 lunge and people don't bitch about it, so i think players can deal but at the same time, the feedback in that game for whether or not one landed is not good.

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