Jump to content
CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Recommended Posts

Are you familiar with phil spencer's work before being lead of xbox?

Are we caring about his work before being head of xbox?  why would we even give a shit about that? Are you familiar with the stupid direction Don pushed xbox and idiotic shit he said?  All i know is he worked with studios representing microsoft the publisher.  I know as soon as he took over he shifted focus to games.  He has never been combative with sony and nintendo and certainly wouldn't have said anything as stupid as "if people dont want to be online to play, they can use their 360".

  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

Are we caring about his work before being head of xbox?  why would we even give a shit about that? Are you familiar with the stupid direction Don pushed xbox and idiotic shit he said?  All i know is he worked with studios representing microsoft the publisher.  I know as soon as he took over he shifted focus to games.  He has never been combative with sony and nintendo and certainly wouldn't have said anything as stupid as "if people dont want to be online to play, they can use their 360".

 

you are clueless

  • Downvote (-1) 7

Share this post


Link to post

you are clueless

 

Oh Please, enlighten me as to how Phil Spencer is a shittier xbox head than Don fucking Mattrick.  You can't just come in here and not back your shit up, pleaseeeeeeee

  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

Oh Please, enlighten me as to how Phil Spencer is a shittier xbox head than Don fucking Mattrick.  You can't just come in here and not back your shit up, pleaseeeeeeee

 

Not worth my time

  • Downvote (-1) 25

Share this post


Link to post

Not worth my time

 

HAHAHAHAHA gg wp

  • Upvote (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

Actually Battlefield is the perfect example for finding success with sequels without constantly reinventing the wheel.

 

Honestly, I don’t understand where the pressure to to reinvent the wheel comes from, considering the strain it clearly puts the franchises base. The goal is to make something bigger, to widen the base - dramatically changing things works against that. If anything, the lesson the market should be learning is that sequals should build on top of established successful design, rather than take large gameplay risks. Sequels should really be more like large premium expansions than sweeping mechanical “innovations”. More GTA less COD/Halo.

I'm sure the answer is more complicated but on a basic level I feel like its a combination of creative people wishing to make their own mark and a few analysts pointing out trends of what players currently like. If one of their "new" ideas can check both of those boxes someone in the studio is going to have to stand up and say that sucks and show them why or its probably going to be added.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm sure the answer is more complicated but on a basic level I feel like its a combination of creative people wishing to make their own mark and a few analysts pointing out trends of what players currently like. If one of their "new" ideas can check both of those boxes someone in the studio is going to have to stand up and say that sucks and show them why or its probably going to be added.

I'm sure both of those forces are at play. but the greatest force should be the health of the franchise. you'd think these things would make publishers risk averse. even when it comes to the urge follow trends- the first question should be "would this have a negative intrinsic impact"?

 

these "analysts" should be spending the most time understanding why their series is popular in the first place. it probably has more to do with core gameplay design than the IP itself.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm sure both of those forces are at play. but the greatest force should be the health of the franchise. you'd think these things would make publishers risk averse. even when it comes to the urge follow trends- the first question should be "would this have a negative intrinsic impact"?

 

these "analysts" should be spending the most time understanding why their series is popular in the first place. it probably has more to do with core gameplay design than the IP itself.

I'd be interested in how permanent the analysts are. Watching things like the bungie vidocs where they talk about how MC worked because they made sure he didn't have too much personality so that the player could see themselves as that character vs 343 talking about how hes a real human and not a machine and his feelings etc will throw anyone for a loop that actually played the games as they were released. I feel like their analysts spend more time on other projects and aren't really very Halo specific. Mostly because it seems like their mission is to do everything different with a Halo brand slapped on it. Honestly maybe it isn't even bad analysis. Perhaps there isn't enough oversight and they just have extremely poor leadership/direction as a studio. I guess that's kind of a given when you tank one of the biggest console IPs to ever exist  

 

It feels like a responsibility problem to me. How do you take Halo from what it was, change everything, lose most of the fan base, and not just clean house afterwards. Someone is making up excuses that someone believes.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

I'd be interested in how permanent the analysts are. Watching things like the bungie vidocs where they talk about how MC worked because they made sure he didn't have too much personality so that the player could see themselves as that character vs 343 talking about how hes a real human and not a machine and his feelings etc will throw anyone for a loop that actually played the games as they were released. I feel like their analysts spend more time on other projects and aren't really very Halo specific. Mostly because it seems like their mission is to do everything different with a Halo brand slapped on it. Honestly maybe it isn't even bad analysis. Perhaps there isn't enough oversight and they just have extremely poor leadership/direction as a studio. I guess that's kind of a given when you tank one of the biggest console IPs to ever exist

 

It feels like a responsibility problem to me. How do you take Halo from what it was, change everything, lose most of the fan base, and not just clean house afterwards. Someone is making up excuses that someone believes.

It’s hilarious (in a cringey sort of way) to watch dev commentary on H4 and H5. You can see exactly which decisions are informed by market analysis, and then have some fun comparing the level of confidence provided by focus testing to market’s actual reception.

 

To me, it wasn’t neccisarily that the analysis was bad. It was the application of the analysis. They either came to the wrong conclusions, or failed at properly adapting their conclusions into features that would benefit a halo game (instead, they tried to adapt Halo into something that revolves around these features).

 

When you look at H4 development , coming off the heals of H3, along side Reach, I can’t imagine that a market analyst would have said, “No one wants to engage with Halo’s core gameplay, make your game as close to COD as possible”. That doesn’t even make sense considering H3 was the top played game on Xbl every year until Reach, despite several COD releases.

 

It was probably more like “players like a high sense of speed, customizing their battlefield role and unlock-based progression systems”. Then 343 says “I got you, fam” and throws Halo out the window.

 

As far as responsibility, I think you’re right about people believing excuses. Blaming the decline on natural causes seems to be a common theme. That said, the studio has had a fair amount of turnover.

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

As far as responsibility, I think you’re right about people believing excuses. Blaming the decline on natural causes seems to be a common theme. That said, the studio has had a fair amount of turnover.

I think this is important too.

 

1a) Competitively, i think Tashi et al give more shits about seeing HCS succeed than Che really did.  Che clearly had his sights elsewhere, Tashi does not. 

1b) Also, i have no idea who was responsible for the illogical personal beef that 343 clearly had with MLG at one point, but that seems to have been cut out.  Another positive.

2) Tom French being head of multiplayer is an upgrade.

3) As much as I liked Josh Holmes, direction comes from the top and there seemed to be a clear shift in philosophy shortly after he left.  its entirely possible this was a coincidence given how many moving parts there are, but i can't help but feel like this was "Addition by subtraction" as well.

4) Communication and transparency as a whole has gotten dramatically better of late. Grim seems especially adept at dealing with salty mf'ers and straight bullshit.

5) Quinn's promotion I think is a good thing. More big picture less minutia.  Looking at the launch maps, i think they have decent map designers over there but they REALLY need to stay away from the "remix" idea.  I also think he specifically has gotten better at listening to feedback.

6) They are actually, clearly giving a shit and putting a lot of work into MCC.  Hopefully it doesn't end up being a "we fixed MCC if you want classic halo go play that" situation though.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

With how many lead positions are still open at 343 I wonder how far along H6 really is.

Share this post


Link to post

With how many lead positions are still open at 343 I wonder how far along H6 really is.

I think Halo would benefit greatly if it was split into a "modern" Halo team and a classic "we're making the game you actually wanted" team. They could just have offset cycles to keep up engagement 

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

On the topic of Josh Holmes, I don't think it's a coincidence that the first game his new studio is making after he left 343 is basically Super Warzone.

 

343's general direction with the series has always come across to me as primarily a combination of market analysis and ego. They didn't want to just be Bungie 2. I get that to a point. They wanted to leave their mark on the IP and make THEIR version of Halo. New art style, new music, new narrative direction and focus, "modern" gameplay.

 

Like that story about the original 343 Halo prototype where they proved they could recreate the gameplay, but deemed it "too traditional" or something to that effect. That direction change is not just trend-chasing. That's, well, hubris. Seems like the poor reception of that approach in part has resulted in a lot of more ambitious (i.e. kind of don't really want to make Halo) senior people at the company moving on to make the games they really wanted to make. Obviously, correlation is not causation and I'm sure it's more complicated than that, but it does make some sense.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

I think Halo would benefit greatly if it was split into a "modern" Halo team and a classic "we're making the game you actually wanted" team. They could just have offset cycles to keep up engagement

I don’t even know what value the “modern” team would bring to the table. Nobody wants to play modern halo. Even Warzone would play better with more classic sensibilities.

Share this post


Link to post

I think Halo would benefit greatly if it was split into a "modern" Halo team and a classic "we're making the game you actually wanted" team. They could just have offset cycles to keep up engagement

All everyone here wants is for a halo developer to ask themselves, "how do we improve Halo 1's formula for new map designs, movement, melee combat, and the spawn system to create new and sensible meta that characterizes what halo multiplayer actually is?"

  • Upvote (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

I don’t even know what value the “modern” team would bring to the table. Nobody wants to play modern halo. Even Warzone would play better with more classic sensibilities.

Think of how much time they'd save when they realized nobody cared and scrapped the modern team

  • Upvote (+1) 2
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

"Modern Halo" is designed to make you feel like a superhero supersoldier.

 

Nothing in H4 or 5 has made me feel like a super soldier compared to H2's,

 

"Permission to leave the station sir"

"For what, Master Chief?"

"To give the Covenant back their bomb"

"Permission granted!"

 

(or whatever that exact quote is)

 

That moment was a hell of a lot more "FUCK YEAH!!!" than the power rangers orbit drop snow fight at the beginning of H5.  You felt like a super soldier because of circumstance and the fact that you KNEW you were really fucking good at what you do.  Not because of any fancy pants abilities (though lets be honest, wearing power armor with shields is itself pretty badass. What else do you really need?)

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

"Modern Halo" is designed to make you feel like a superhero supersoldier.

 

Nothing in H4 or 5 has made me feel like a super soldier compared to H2's,

 

"Permission to leave the station sir"

"For what, Master Chief?"

"To give the Covenant back their bomb"

"Permission granted!"

 

(or whatever that exact quote is)

 

That moment was a hell of a lot more "FUCK YEAH!!!" than the power rangers orbit drop snow fight at the beginning of H5. You felt like a super soldier because of circumstance and the fact that you KNEW you were really fucking good at what you do. Not because of any fancy pants abilities (though lets be honest, wearing power armor with shields is itself pretty badass. What else do you really need?)

Agreed. That H5 cutscene is so cringy.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

With how many lead positions are still open at 343 I wonder how far along H6 really is.

 

Pretty normal between titles. A lot of times leads have been in that position for most if not all of the last development cycle and either move laterally, up, or go to another studio to take the 'next step' in their career. 

Share this post


Link to post

I feel like we've been stuck in a cycle, saying the same things and making the same arguments over and over. Only once you stop caring about Halo can you become free.

 

As the man himself once said, They may take our lives, but they'll never take our freedom!

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.