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CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Like I said, they have a long way to go. 

 

That clip wasn't from theater......?????

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Dere's camo would instantly be on bottom. And stickies wouldn't be 3 damned minutes either. And Dere CTF wouldn't be a fucking clown show. And there'd be walls to prevent camo from being naded into the wall on BC. And I'd put a ladder from Shotty to Pistol on Dammy.

 

Omg i would go nuts with that shit.

We could literally do these things in NHE right now.

 

People are purists though and even slight changes are incredibly hotly debated. Like they could have made rocket spawn every two minutes but too many people complained about changing it.

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Dere doesn't need any changes. In slayer at least.

BS. Camo to bottom mid and 2min rockets would only help. I mean I like Dere too but there’s a reason it’s only in the second voting slot.

 

If the map shipped with camo bottom mid and 2 min rockets, and I told you I wanted to put it up top and make rocks 30 seconds, you’d think I had an extra chromosome.

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BS. Camo to bottom mid and 2min rockets would only help. I mean I like Dere too but there’s a reason it’s only in the second voting slot.

 

If the map shipped with camo bottom mid and 2 min rockets, and I told you I wanted to put it up top and make rocks 30 seconds, you’d think I had an extra chromosome.

 

What are you hoping to accomplish with these changes? Dere is already the fastest map in the game.

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What are you hoping to accomplish with these changes? Dere is already the fastest map in the game.

As of right now, if top team has both powerups, there’s about a 15 second window where bottom team has a chance to retake control every cycle, and that’s only if camo wasn’t grabbed late. The rest of the cycle is either a spawn killing massacre or a hide and seek game of stalling. For most of the minute on most cycles, the out of control team doesn’t have a realistic shot at retaking control. Even if bottom team can successfully chip down OS and stall out camo, their options are still extremely limited and vulnerable prior to the spawn. Two very exposed portals, a risky nade jump, or nading down camo which usually gets you a burn at best. Top team knows you have to come to them and do something very risky to retake control. Their risk/reward for maintaining control is out of whack at the moment.

 

Since this change would require the top team to drop, the window for control-altering kills opens significantly every cycle. You get a lot less 30 kill waves of momentum because the bottom team has way more chances per minute to realistically challenge control.

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As of right now, if top team has both powerups, there’s about a 15 second window where bottom team has a chance to retake control every cycle, and that’s only if camo wasn’t grabbed late. The rest of the cycle is either a spawn killing massacre or a hide and seek game of stalling. For most of the minute on most cycles, the out of control team doesn’t have a realistic shot at retaking control. Even if bottom team can successfully chip down OS and stall out camo, their options are still extremely limited and vulnerable prior to the spawn. Two very exposed portals, a risky nade jump, or nading down camo which usually gets you a burn at best. Top team knows you have to come to them and do something very risky to retake control. Their risk/reward for maintaining control is out of whack at the moment.

 

Since this change would require the top team to drop, the window for control-altering kills opens significantly every cycle. You get a lot less 30 kill waves of momentum because the bottom team has way more chances per minute to realistically challenge control.

 

So things are too tough for bottom team, therefore the map should be turned into Prisoner? Let Derelict be Derelict, let Prisoner be Prisoner.

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So things are too tough for bottom team, therefore the map should be turned into Prisoner? Let Derelict be Derelict, let Prisoner be Prisoner.

Fuck that. Dere is boring and frustrating.

 

Both maps would still play extremely different with these changes. Derelict is incredibly exposed and prisoner is not. Prisoner is very spawn oriented. Also the camo guy wouldn't have rocket advantage.

 

Camo for bottom team creates far more interesting gameplay scenarios than top having it. If top gets it they basically just sit still and snipe unsuspecting players who basically have no chance. If bottom got camo they could sneak around and let their teammate play decoy and shit.

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Fuck that. Dere is boring and frustrating.

 

Both maps would still play extremely different with these changes. Derelict is incredibly exposed and prisoner is not. Prisoner is very spawn oriented. Also the camo guy wouldn't have rocket advantage.

 

Camo for bottom team creates far more interesting gameplay scenarios than top having it. If top gets it they basically just sit still and snipe unsuspecting players who basically have no chance. If bottom got camo they could sneak around and let their teammate play decoy and shit.

 

Lol no it doesn't, it creates the same gameplay scenarios as Prisoner and Hang Em. Player from top team must drop to get the all-important camo and then quickly scamper back up top.

 

It's remarkable that a map as boring and frustrating and miserable for poor wittle bottom team has been a mainstay in the Halo 1 rotation for 16 years now. There must be some real masochists out there!

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Defending Derelict lmao I've seen it all. Sometimes maps can change for the better. You don't have to leave it the same just cuz. I don't even play the game and I know it's a snowballing massacre that many people just avoid playing most of the time.

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Derelict is actual dog shit and if you don't think so I think you need to take a few steps back at look at what the map literally is lol.

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 has been a mainstay in the Halo 1 rotation for 16 years now. 

 

What exactly is this supposed to mean when CE has had a static map pool with like 9 viable 2v2 maps for those past 16 years?  

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cT had a version of dere that had camo bottom mid a long time ago. I never got a chance to play it but it sounds good on paper. He said a lot of people were opposed to it, but am not sure the specific reasons.

 

I think most dislike dere but I enjoy it. It's a map a lot of ppl seem to skip now, but each LAN group kinda has their own maps they avoid. Some OGs still are upset we don't play rat race. A few of us in our group skip BC.

 

Yeah dere is a bit unfair but I do enjoy finally getting that top run in after getting pummeled downlow. There's a number of tricks you can do to get it back, but if you don't know any of them at all then it feels like an endless spawn trap

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What exactly is this supposed to mean when CE has had a static map pool with like 9 viable 2v2 maps for those past 16 years?  

 

It means exactly what it says. If Derelict (with camo up top and rockets on 30s) is that bad and that unfair, why has it been a staple of every CE LAN party for almost two decades? If the map is 'actual dog shit', why hasn't it gone the way of Chiron and Boarding Action (actual shit maps that nobody plays except as a joke)?

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This entire discussion in a nutshell.

I said that because I haven't played on it. Sounds like you are doing the same. However this already exists and others played on it and said they like it. The ones that don't didn't really give any reasons other than it's different.

 

There are people that want to play rat race over downrush that are ogs. Opinions widely vary on maps from players that attend h1 LANs.

 

Ok so I see your argument is it's a staple of competitive play. You do realize that for tournaments that Dere and HeH are constantly argued over and vetoed?

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Lol no it doesn't, it creates the same gameplay scenarios as Prisoner and Hang Em. Player from top team must drop to get the all-important camo and then quickly scamper back up top.

 

It's remarkable that a map as boring and frustrating and miserable for poor wittle bottom team has been a mainstay in the Halo 1 rotation for 16 years now. There must be some real masochists out there!

 

Lmao at a "mainstay" in the rotation. Do you even LAN?

 

Go take a look at PC servers and see how many people play Derelict. If 343 released the Halo 1 map selection voting statistics you'd see Derelict lose probably 90+% of the time in voting.

 

I like how you conveniently leave out my points on how the map is a lot different and just repeat the exact same argument as the last post. Bravo.

 

Also, dog shit was just hyperbole from Multi. And honestly without CE's great balanced gameplay mechanics it would probably be pretty bad.

 

 

Anyway, you're a troll so I don't really care to respond further. Good day.

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Lmao at a "mainstay" in the rotation. Do you even LAN?

 

Go take a look at PC servers and see how many people play Derelict. If 343 released the Halo 1 map selection voting statistics you'd see Derelict lose probably 90+% of the time in voting.

 

I like how you conveniently leave out my points on how the map is a lot different and just repeat the exact same argument as the last post. Bravo.

 

Also, dog shit was just hyperbole from Multi. And honestly without CE's great balanced gameplay mechanics it would probably be pretty bad.

 

Cool story bro.

 

Cool story bro.

 

You didn't make any valid points regarding Prisoner vs. Derelict. Every playable 2v2 map is in the game is "spawn oriented", it's Halo 1. The hell are you talking about?

 

Every map sucks if it's in a game without a good sandbox and good mechanics. Yet another nothing statement from you.

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Derelict my balls...

 

AMMIRITE GUYS!!??

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The fact that Dere "works" is a testament to CE's weapon balance and spawn system, and even saying the map works is a stretch.

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I can understand wanting to preserve the unique "feel" of a map instead of making it homogenized with other maps, but when that entire feel is defined by completely lopsided spawn crushing...I dunno, probably time to re-evaluate what's more important there.

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Who wants to play the H3 playlist tonight? I have 6 beers with my name on them.

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I can understand wanting to preserve the unique "feel" of a map instead of making it homogenized with other maps, but when that entire feel is defined by completely lopsided spawn crushing...I dunno, probably time to re-evaluate what's more important there.

 

You understand not wanting to homogenize the map pool, but we should probably homogenize the map pool, because reasons. Ok.

 

There's nothing inherently unbalanced about Derelict. Yes, a game on Derelict is a game of runs. Yes, Derelict is rife with spawn killing. Yes, you will get plowed if the other team seizes total top control. But guess what? If you rip it away from them, you can apply that same treatment right back. They went up 40-20 on you while they had top control? You have a very legitimate chance of closing that gap if you can take it back. It's not impossible, it's not luck-based, there's just very little margin for error.

 

Halo 5 really has ruined everything, hasn't it? Every map in Halo 5 is devoid of rewards, obstacles, and game changers, and is essentially the same bland jungle-gym bullshit copied and pasted 11 or 12 times over. I guess that's been accepted as the new normal, and now everyone wants to go back and apply that treatment to every map in every other Halo game that deviates from the accepted formula. Speak out against it and you're a troll. Awesome.

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