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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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What else do you call it when the cursor doesn't respond to your input?

 

We dont need to argue semantics. The mechanics are the same regardless of the hardware, yet changing hardware changes the aim response. What more needs to be proven here?

 

We know they "changed the aiming". No one disputes this. But the aiming system is the same on all 3 platforms. Why would the effects of this change be different across hardware if the issue isn't performance related?

 

Either the pc and X version use different code for the aiming system. Or more powerful hardware can run the code better. One of these options makes sense.

Both of those options make "sense" (even if one has never been observed in the wild). The difference is that we have direct testimony that code tweaking occurred, and no actual demonstrated data that the platforms are what caused the change.

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Both of those options make "sense" (even if one has never been observed in the wild). The difference is that we have direct testimony that code tweaking occurred, and no actual demonstrated data that the platforms are what caused the change.

It literally makes no sense to assume they made different versions of the aiming system for different hardware. None.

 

They changed H5s aiming mechanics after beta. The pc and Xbox versions have identical mechanics. The pc response is better.

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What the fuck

 

Like legitimately thats all I can say about it.

 

What the fuck fan fiction did I just play

 

I finished in 6 hours on heroic. 8-12 hours my ass. Definitely worst Halo campaign BY FAR

 

Never forget lads

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Probably one of my favourite Halo campaigns.

 

The base gameplay is the best feeling in the series and the level design was superb.

 

The art design was absolutely gorgeous and the music is so, so good.

 

 

I have a few issues with the story but I still really enjoyed it throughout, it definitely had me gripped. It did very much feel like set up for H6 though, that said I cannot wait. 3 years is far, far too long.

 

 

Also the complaints about the ad campaign are hilarious. It's marketing, they're not gunna tell you the damn story in the trailers. I'm actually really glad the story was different to what they advertised, made it far more surprising.

Some things never change lmao
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It literally makes no sense to assume they made different versions of the aiming system for different hardware. None.

 

They changed H5s aiming mechanics after beta. The pc and Xbox versions have identical mechanics. The pc response is better.

How in the world does it make no sense that different hardware gets different parameters?

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How in the world does it make no sense that different hardware gets different parameters?

 

I mean, for all intents and purposes it is the same hardware. The X1 is a PC in a fancy case with a Windows derivative OS. It's the same input device, with what I'm told are very similar drivers.

 

So, if there's a major difference, it's more likely to be 343i software based.

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It's clear h5 had a compression issue. No other AAA is this large, yet came so bare.

 

 

 

And the game has the most inconsistent servers as well. Playing today for the first time in a while, and it's incredibly frustrating.

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How in the world does it make no sense that different hardware gets different parameters?

Parameters?

 

Regardless of the platform, people are playing the same game, using the same peripheral. Why would they take the time to create two distinct aiming systems for controller?

 

They wouldn’t.

 

There is a single aiming system, and it’s more responsive when the code is run on hardware better than the Xb1.

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Some things never change lmao

I stand by most of that.

 

Only thing I'd say is that on subsequent playthroughs I realized the story was pretty bad. It's all just set up for 6. But hey, honeymoon period and all that.

 

I've got to say though, I'm surprised some of you are still here talking about this game considering your apparently dislike of it.

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*snip*

 

There is a single aiming system, and it’s more responsive when the code is run on hardware better than the Xb1.

I'm sorry cursed, I'm really not a confrontational person, but you yourself pulled the Occam's razor card, and to me this is the simplest explanation, and that's really the core of my argument.

 

EDIT: THAT SAID, were still all just pissing guesses into the wind here, I wouldn't necessarily bet money on my opinion, so don't @ in 4 years when the exposé book is released and it turns out I was wrong.

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I stand by most of that.

 

Only thing I'd say is that on subsequent playthroughs I realized the story was pretty bad. It's all just set up for 6. But hey, honeymoon period and all that.

 

I've got to say though, I'm surprised some of you are still here talking about this game considering your apparently dislike of it.

Damn it man, I feel bad for laughing- but the part where you were glad that the game strayed from the marketing because it added suprise - actually made me Lol. Almost woke up my kid.

 

They went from a marketing campaign that featured high quality story telling to something utterly nonsensical in the actual release. SURPRISE!

 

I know your opinion has shifted a bit since the honeymoon but I just got a chuckle out of that.

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Damn it man, I feel bad for laughing- but the part where you were glad that the game strayed from the marketing because it added suprise - actually made me Lol. Almost woke up my kid.

 

They went from a marketing campaign that featured high quality story telling to something utterly nonsensical in the actual release. SURPRISE!

 

I know your opinion has shifted a bit since the honeymoon but I just got a chuckle out of that.

Yeah, you've got a point, that line right there was a load of rubbish. That said I would rather have completely irrelevant marketing than marketing which spoiled too much.

 

I do still think the backlash over the marketing was disproportionate to the actual problem though.

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Yeah, you've got a point, that line right there was a load of rubbish. That said I would rather have completely irrelevant marketing than marketing which spoiled too much.

 

I do still think the backlash over the marketing was disproportionate to the actual problem though.

I think it was possible to deliver the feel of the marketing without spoiling anything. It woulda been cool if there actually as an antagonist angle between lock and Chief. And a blue team mission where your actually on the ground fighting while a Guardian is Awakening in a major city. The Cortana plot twist (which was ruined in the marketing and by a second mission reveal) could have actually been surprising and effective if it was held until the end, and the game actually built up the concept of the domain and curing rampancy PRIOR to the reveal of evil Cortana.

 

I think if they are gonna totally throw everything from the marketing campaign out the window, the actual story had better be just as good or better!

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It is not more likely because the other Halos on MCC don't suffer the same problem. If it was a hardware issue, then every game would be affected, because every game runs through that same hardware. 

 

 

This makes no sense. MCC is a different game running on a different engine than H5. The responsiveness and aim feel on that game has no correlation to what happens in H5. Just because its a "Halo" title doesn't mean that you can equate what is happening on that game to another "Halo" game. What is more likely, that the better hardware of a PC or the X is able to more adequately display a constant resolution because they are more powerful and that's why the aiming feels better, or that aiming accidentally feels better because reasons.

 

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Parameters?

 

Regardless of the platform, people are playing the same game, using the same peripheral. Why would they take the time to create two distinct aiming systems for controller?

 

They wouldn’t.

 

There is a single aiming system, and it’s more responsive when the code is run on hardware better than the Xb1.

 

You have yet to respond to the problem that the game does not change aiming characteristics depending on what is happening on screen. Keep in mind, you said that it was the dynamic resolution change from the beta. That is a graphics-related issue, so it's handled by the graphics chip

 

And don't say, "well it's probably some OTHER random system" unless you're prepared to name and explain said system. 

 

This makes no sense. MCC is a different game running on a different engine than H5. 

 

Psst. 

 

That's software. 

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FFS people, the aiming feels just as bad when the game is running at max resolution and FPS on an empty map and when the system is being "taxed" on a full server, with tons of shit going on, with fluctuating resolution.

 

How can you understand that and still say the aiming is bad because of the dynamic resolution/hardware?

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DOOM utilizes a dynamic resolution system on console and pc, and there's not a single issue with that games aiming system.

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FFS people, the aiming feels just as bad when the game is running at max resolution and FPS on an empty map and when the system is being "taxed" on a full server, with tons of shit going on, with fluctuating resolution.

 

How can you understand that and still say the aiming is bad because of the dynamic resolution/hardware?

It’s a shit aiming system even at its best on XB1. But it’s inconsistent. We don’t know what causes the inconsistencies. The heavy aim patch helped but it’s still present. Whatever they did, it’s poorly optimized.

 

It’s not shit on PC, and supposedly not on 1X either. We know for sure the aiming code wasn’t changed for 1X and it’s extremely likely it wasn’t changed for PC either. Both are stronger machines.

 

Even if you could prove that the aiming code was changed for PC, you can’t prove that for the 1X. It’s the exact same game, and it runs better on the better hardware. Thus, the problem is MOSTLY a hardware problem.

 

Again, no one is denying that the H5 aiming was changed for the worse post-beta, but I think the PC and 1X versions of the aiming are the way it’s supposed to feel on XB1, if it were not for some unidentifiable hardware obstruction. This seems obvious to me. To think that they secretly changed the aiming system for PC and, like a magician, changed the aiming system for the same freaking game on 1X, to me seems absurd.

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Hey, all!

 

  :ghost:

 

Saw Josh posting about the aiming in Halo 5 in response to some of your questions and figured it'd be a good time to lend some insight. That being said, yes, the aiming did change a little bit from Beta up until now. During the Beta, close-range gameplay felt fluid, mid-range felt decent, and long-range felt flat-out squirrelly. So, our Pro Team went through numerous tests over the course of a few months with our lead sandbox designer, Chris King, and the rest of his team in regards to how our how aim felt leading up to the release. There were some days where our entire team despised it, other days where our team had a split-decision, and finally one day where we all felt extremely comfortable with it.

 

Now, to be fair, we've played this game for two years, so we do have a lot more time spent getting comfortable with the movement, as well as the weaponry. Nevertheless, like any other Halo player, we all know how good our shots are when it comes to a Halo utility weapon, and that day, we felt it. Thus, after careful tweaking, constant iteration, and daily discussion, we landed on our favorite fit. It gave players the perfect blend of sensitivity across all three ranges. Yes, close-range might feel a little bit harder to control at first, but in the long run, you will all learn to adjust to it for the better. Shooting the magnum in this game is very particular, seemingly like how Killer N or StK Tupac shot their pistols in Halo 1. At first, it's going to be tough, but it will get much better with practice. Even to this day, shooting a Halo 1 pistol up-close is extremely challenging though, right? ;)

 

Furthermore, since the game is running at 60FPS, and the mobility is so fast in-game, I want to reiterate that everyone of us needs to adjust to how the aim-adhesion will feel for Halo 5. It's a bit tricky at first - using a single-shot weapon to essentially swipe over an enemy as you pull the trigger feels different than before. Also, in the Halo 5: Guardians Beta, a bug slipped through the cracks that had a delayed aim-assist problem. You could swipe your reticle over an opponent, and the game would display Red Reticle, but it was after a 5ms delay. Thankfully, we were able to address that issue and fix it before launch. So now, everything should feel very smooth. Nonetheless, we are actively listening to feedback, and we are always welcome to change. So, if players do feel this strongly about the aim after a few weeks, our teams will without a doubt revisit the sensitivity curves in Halo 5.

 

Anyways, haven't had the chance to say it yet - hope everyone truly enjoys Halo 5 here! I know I haven't posted on these forums in quite some time, but I assure you that I'll be frequenting them much more now that the game has launched. So, as always, feel free to leave your unadulterated feedback below! 

 

-Ghost

 

Guys come on. It's all right there, they fucked up the aiming on purpose. stop saying it's a bug or hardware issue. It feels less like shit on PC and it might be even better on the Xbonbe X, but at the end of the day it's still a garbage aiming system when compared to literally any FPS and especially when compared to 343's other games, aka H4 or H2A. There is noting to fix, because H5's aiming is a feature in their eyes and not a massive pile of garbage.

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Guys come on. It's all right there, they fucked up the aiming on purpose. stop saying it's a bug or hardware issue. It feels less like shit on PC and it might be even better on the Xbonbe X, but at the end of the day it's still a garbage aiming system when compared to literally any FPS and especially when compared to 343's other games, aka H4 or H2A. There is noting to fix, because H5's aiming is a feature in their eyes and not a massive pile of garbage.

And yet it is night and day different on different platforms, when in all likelihood they changed nothing about the aiming system (especially since, as you said, they designed it on purpose).

 

And they’re still mentioning an alleviation to heavy aim two years after launch. Clearly the aiming was not working as intended on the XB1. The aiming on PC is probably what they intended for XB1, but some hardware related issue that I’m not smart enough to identify prevented that.

 

Doesn’t that seem more likely than “hurr durr let’s fuck up the aiming on purpose but then make it gud on PC”

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You have yet to respond to the problem that the game does not change aiming characteristics depending on what is happening on screen. Keep in mind, you said that it was the dynamic resolution change from the beta. That is a graphics-related issue, so it's handled by the graphics chip.

 

And don't say, "well it's probably some OTHER random system" unless you're prepared to name and explain said system.

 

I just dont understand what you are getting at.

 

What's happening onscreen is just a portion of what needs to be calculated in order to run the game. Many of the things being processed are never visualized.

 

Beyond that, dynamic res isn't just a GPU issue. It's a CPU/GPU balancing issue. Removing stress from the GPU is going to add stress to the CPU.

 

It seems like you went me to argue that the CPU is getting overloaded only when the system is trying to down res because the scene is too intense... but im not arguing that, so i can't help you there.

 

I dont know why the game can't keep up with inputs on xbox. I do know that the responsiveness issue goes away on more powerful hardware. This tells me that it's an issue between the engine and the hardware its being run on... and we know what major engine change they made between the beta and launch.

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I just dont understand what you are getting at.

 

What's happening onscreen is just a portion of what needs to be calculated in order to run the game. Many of the things being processed are never visualized.

 

Beyond that, dynamic res isn't just a GPU issue. It's a CPU/GPU balancing issue. Removing stress from the GPU is going to add stress to the CPU.

 

It seems like you went me to argue that the CPU is getting overloaded only when the system is trying to down res because the scene is too intense... but im not arguing that, so i can't help you there.

CPUs and GPUs don't work in a load balancing relationship. I don't know where you even got that idea but it's straight up wrong. 

 

And yes, I do want you to address the fact that the responsiveness doesn't fluctuate depending on load, because your argument is that the dynamic res is stressing the system whereas before when it was locked at 720 the system ran just fine and allowed proper aiming. 

 

The hardware didn't change between the beta and the full release. We know that proper aiming is possible on the inferior hardware of the XB1, ergo if dynamic res is the culprit, then when the system is not under load the aiming should be fine. That is absolutely not the case. They changed the aiming parameters in software.  

 

And once again, it's not an issue of lag, so it's not even relevant to talk about the hardware

 

I dont know why the game can't keep up with inputs on xbox. I do know that the responsiveness issue goes away on more powerful hardware. This tells me that it's an issue between the engine and the hardware its being run on... and we know what major engine change they made between the beta and launch.

 

You have absolutely no idea why the aiming changes, don't pretend like you're certain it's the increased specs. It could be an engine tweak or quirk that has nothing to do with high resource consumption. 

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