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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Slayers just generally aren't all that interesting until the last few minutes- and that's only if they are close. The lack of depth with Halo's utility weapon since H2 doesn't help, but I think this inherent to 4v4 halo.

 

Even A 3-0 CTF can be often be closer than the scoreboard suggests, and up until the last flag Cap, comebacks are always realistic possibilities. So as a viewer, your still on your toes. The same goes for pretty much every other objective gametype to some degree.

 

But slayer- the drama just typically isn't there.

 

You can make the exact same argument with Oddball and KOTH.

 

Have you ever seen a game where a team was on 4:59 ball time and the other team was on 0:00 and then came back to win 5:00 to 4:59?

 

Instead, we often hear: "Well it's not mathematically possible to win for team B now" while both teams run around still trying for some reason until the clock ticks down (These games should seriously just result in a surrender instead of forcing spectators to just watch the clock time out).

 

Slayer games are as exciting as the teams make them. Obviously a 50-25 game is going to be boring to watch, just like a 5:00 to 0:20 KOTH game is going to be boring to watch.

 

Slayer could easily be more exciting if the people in charge of the game types weren't so scared of adding power ups and stuff to the maps. I'd love to see an Overshield and a Super Overshield in the game, just like the Red/Yellow armour from Quake. Put the normal overshield that gives you 200% shield on a short timer and the Super Overshield (AKA, Halo 1 OS) on a longer timer and then have them spawn at the same time every 3 minutes or something.

 

Force players to make a decision about what shield they go for. Do they risk going for the super OS which is more likely to be contested or do they go for the smaller OS which they have a better chance of securing but doesn't offer as much advantage.

 

THAT is the stuff missing from Halo.

 

I've tried doing this in Forge myself, but 1: I don't think it's possible since we don't get custom power ups in H5, and 2: no one would be willing to play it anyway because everyone is scared of trying different maps.

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You can make the exact same argument with Oddball and KOTH.

 

Have you ever seen a game where a team was on 4:59 ball time and the other team was on 0:00 and then came back to win 5:00 to 4:59?

 

Instead, we often hear: "Well it's not mathematically possible to win for team B now" while both teams run around still trying for some reason until the clock ticks down (These games should seriously just result in a surrender instead of forcing spectators to just watch the clock time out).

 

This is true, but is more an issue with how the gameclock is handled rather than a lack of dynamism is the gamemodes. I think if the losing team is scoring, the game should continue until the score limit is reached or the leading team regains control, whichever comes first.

 

Slayer games are as exciting as the teams make them. Obviously a 50-25 game is going to be boring to watch, just like a 5:00 to 0:20 KOTH game is going to be boring to watch.

Blowouts are blowouts. The point i'm making is that the kills that occur throughout the duration of a slayer match are no more interesting than those that happen in any other match, yet kills are all slayer has to offer- a problem objective gametypes don't have. The fact that The win condition ensures that large leads are almost always insurmountable amplifies the issue.

 

Slayer could easily be more exciting if the people in charge of the game types weren't so scared of adding power ups and stuff to the maps. I'd love to see an Overshield and a Super Overshield in the game, just like the Red/Yellow armour from Quake. Put the normal overshield that gives you 200% shield on a short timer and the Super Overshield (AKA, Halo 1 OS) on a longer timer and then have them spawn at the same time every 3 minutes or something.

 

Force players to make a decision about what shield they go for. Do they risk going for the super OS which is more likely to be contested or do they go for the smaller OS which they have a better chance of securing but doesn't offer as much advantage.

 

THAT is the stuff missing from Halo.

 

I've tried doing this in Forge myself, but 1: I don't think it's possible since we don't get custom power ups in H5, and 2: no one would be willing to play it anyway because everyone is scared of trying different maps.

Im all for interesting ways to spice slayer up. I definately think there are ways to make it better. But i still think it inherently has the least competive merit.

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I've tried doing this in Forge myself, but 1: I don't think it's possible since we don't get custom power ups in H5, and 2: no one would be willing to play it anyway because everyone is scared of trying different maps.

Custom powerups exist, but they require the Minigame mode to be used.

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Custom powerups exist, but they require the Minigame mode to be used.

That's funky. Does "used" refer to just spawning it, or actually spawning and using it in game?

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Depths lighting is coming from straight above, and will always be completely blown out.  Is there a reason you're using Depths in particular? Just about every other canvas works better.

 

Alpine has some of the best lighting, and the standard daytime has noonish directional lighting which is nice, it comes from relatively straight up so you can get really cool shading.  Overcast is a bit more particular but it can work.

 

Barrens lighting looks nice but the canvas is extremely buggy.  Tidal is the most well rounded canvas for all purposes, especially if you plan on chroma boxing your map. Paralax is great for skybox control with the fog but your actual black contrast on that canvas will get blown out.  Super dark blacks, super bright whites.  

 

If you can Chroma Box and you aren't particularly attached to any particular natural lighting and directional shadowing, I would highly recommend it.  Turning light bake off is essential here as you're essentially creating your own lighting and shading for the map.  Keep in mind that even in a completely chroma boxed map with light bake off, the canvas/lightmap you chose will still affect the way the objects themselves look through manual lighting and coloring.  

 

If you have pictures of your map post them here and I can find you a good fit.

 

I used Depths just because I liked the underwater dungeon idea. Room-based, asymm, going for a Halo 1 vibe, etc.

 

Anyway screenshots from before and after hitting the "light bake" option in forge:

 

Before http://images-eds.xboxlive.com/image?url=MSVnmBUo_fHjbLYMjAEUQ7jpZDVN2u6Zk9G1CFEaF7foyeb9vHXW1jCDjRAUQwSfT1kbbM1E8_WRMsYj.J2NkrLuX5Lm7bWTXufO5Y0w8FmtmNE2aelwLTjKqa.I4QRnTNTHRTNot5Jm0RXsAFWWL1FbkKsmGOeamcLzQJX7PNbDEFJdzrSSEfkJLQDoEs00969rZbo5d7XPfisdj9ZsCKXUfGZeD9tX7SzrhIKLVF9rfZHOJGNhYsVibSGANLY0v74maisqF8ft5PiTfkgvAKyrT1Edo0xQIRAcCqWY_NY-&format=png&h=640&w=1138

 

After http://images-eds.xboxlive.com/image?url=MSVnmBUo_fHjbLYMjAEUQ9p3KJ8facPMGNbTmRaQX3BYhvllmwlGGyxl833tqtT_2dw0Sv7j5rS73Ubqsj.22WbMd4y63sqrFwAIBRQJs3coPb4Lsyo_vjdn7ah.mepsI5vLcRlXiDdPNV4Wt7y9hek.aTQjAvIDJuRCWt5R7NZ_bR8pIr7KvimjjIVxL2xcmAGdmGXe1rEane9IegjmdUBpT1rA4MQC.rw81RTK2AtEYaH9hXXIlLXEMyoJ.YsQuQihkeWUt11ODJcl5kWaMj7ZSyIKi3i0QjAFIwA.Y.A-&format=png&h=640&w=1138

 

Before http://images-eds.xboxlive.com/image?url=MSVnmBUo_fHjbLYMjAEUQ9p3KJ8facPMGNbTmRaQX3BYhvllmwlGGyxl833tqtT_2dw0Sv7j5rS73Ubqsj.22SN_wNhyNB3dgOlFC2l5tvGuT.ZoVuRd3ZBwKQL9Mq0lo6m8qXPa72fBlyyqFTTzZoB0SXwUi2KLtAfrwrssTZLnOcXA3a_WyRGYI6Ox3f_sA9m8uJ.AB.WIoNK93IA6raudH5W7G0TEIV3jNXy3T3kH2OqqYnALSK9gK5xfJMArVaz8i79rOJ0PoRu1_ybh7URxTkF2EZIimPN4XwfKAxU-&format=png&h=640&w=1138

 

After http://images-eds.xboxlive.com/image?url=MSVnmBUo_fHjbLYMjAEUQ7jpZDVN2u6Zk9G1CFEaF7foyeb9vHXW1jCDjRAUQwSfT1kbbM1E8_WRMsYj.J2Nkm7svfNPqxeRSYW1W6_eGv_3OUWyYuUw39uQOkrsUV4sTJwA9nJ5H5o0965mIM8imgqfl44NqnUOJ3z25q4KHToZPoWVA6zto5roEPNo1TXvsQ6nc6W_yQwiu4wJZdk8eueMm8agnVwqkM3tIn4VFf2MmEFpeHQ.xYNOl3Nq66aTJ9hyBqitAFxbXz0We64uanBtHTW.SpjWPi.3wW1eXBs-&format=png&h=640&w=1138

 

Before http://images-eds.xboxlive.com/image?url=MSVnmBUo_fHjbLYMjAEUQ1997NqViwRuhp37ECgBmpjTopc.v25oEq7FlZ81jscc3616E36Tp2wC_rugM4_AXX6vhuufxT9tgOhEAAE0AvTpdDcqApcjpo4ULMAZGgck_1aP1bcbpmgDQ6sstTZ6V8K6Rqj.LSF6oTQ1Tuzlfm5RAr0f6ekd5TO0U9Nbk5MyiXTFRD3ZRJqQF67PElrCiCrfu5WVnR99xGrxi3mHQqFtfvDIoWe2mP84jdfvBcFkE11nttcF_alpG12PNRa1RicrdlkLvx4Qs7Jz2VvM7DE-&format=png&h=640&w=1138

 

After http://images-eds.xboxlive.com/image?url=MSVnmBUo_fHjbLYMjAEUQ_QLQhZ8X.0dh1rxYwf72m1jDov7v5dy7Uy0wpPuR3SaegBXdyI18pINJe9CUUe1KiJoNIHWzNIGFFGCFsycanBG.wqgS.rGRaYSNouoymm5BbrZfL9K418J6yIh7QnRg3gM3GootOJ.VEbZ5ydAmHXkWpqquBCw19GkKw4XjBIpIMU9AaPO4AUM8.GHRfrUe9GvcwrjpVwex4VCJxYc..lsykpKnxt5hvO_iW6OQIomNvItv8LcY66HNzAvOHe3a.XCSq0pmcB1s4GlvoAyz9A-&format=png&h=640&w=1138

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I used Depths just because I liked the underwater dungeon idea. Room-based, asymm, going for a Halo 1 vibe, etc.

 

Anyway screenshots from before and after hitting the "light bake" option in forge:

 

Before http://images-eds.xboxlive.com/image?url=MSVnmBUo_fHjbLYMjAEUQ7jpZDVN2u6Zk9G1CFEaF7foyeb9vHXW1jCDjRAUQwSfT1kbbM1E8_WRMsYj.J2NkrLuX5Lm7bWTXufO5Y0w8FmtmNE2aelwLTjKqa.I4QRnTNTHRTNot5Jm0RXsAFWWL1FbkKsmGOeamcLzQJX7PNbDEFJdzrSSEfkJLQDoEs00969rZbo5d7XPfisdj9ZsCKXUfGZeD9tX7SzrhIKLVF9rfZHOJGNhYsVibSGANLY0v74maisqF8ft5PiTfkgvAKyrT1Edo0xQIRAcCqWY_NY-&format=png&h=640&w=1138

 

After http://images-eds.xboxlive.com/image?url=MSVnmBUo_fHjbLYMjAEUQ9p3KJ8facPMGNbTmRaQX3BYhvllmwlGGyxl833tqtT_2dw0Sv7j5rS73Ubqsj.22WbMd4y63sqrFwAIBRQJs3coPb4Lsyo_vjdn7ah.mepsI5vLcRlXiDdPNV4Wt7y9hek.aTQjAvIDJuRCWt5R7NZ_bR8pIr7KvimjjIVxL2xcmAGdmGXe1rEane9IegjmdUBpT1rA4MQC.rw81RTK2AtEYaH9hXXIlLXEMyoJ.YsQuQihkeWUt11ODJcl5kWaMj7ZSyIKi3i0QjAFIwA.Y.A-&format=png&h=640&w=1138

 

Before http://images-eds.xboxlive.com/image?url=MSVnmBUo_fHjbLYMjAEUQ9p3KJ8facPMGNbTmRaQX3BYhvllmwlGGyxl833tqtT_2dw0Sv7j5rS73Ubqsj.22SN_wNhyNB3dgOlFC2l5tvGuT.ZoVuRd3ZBwKQL9Mq0lo6m8qXPa72fBlyyqFTTzZoB0SXwUi2KLtAfrwrssTZLnOcXA3a_WyRGYI6Ox3f_sA9m8uJ.AB.WIoNK93IA6raudH5W7G0TEIV3jNXy3T3kH2OqqYnALSK9gK5xfJMArVaz8i79rOJ0PoRu1_ybh7URxTkF2EZIimPN4XwfKAxU-&format=png&h=640&w=1138

 

After http://images-eds.xboxlive.com/image?url=MSVnmBUo_fHjbLYMjAEUQ7jpZDVN2u6Zk9G1CFEaF7foyeb9vHXW1jCDjRAUQwSfT1kbbM1E8_WRMsYj.J2Nkm7svfNPqxeRSYW1W6_eGv_3OUWyYuUw39uQOkrsUV4sTJwA9nJ5H5o0965mIM8imgqfl44NqnUOJ3z25q4KHToZPoWVA6zto5roEPNo1TXvsQ6nc6W_yQwiu4wJZdk8eueMm8agnVwqkM3tIn4VFf2MmEFpeHQ.xYNOl3Nq66aTJ9hyBqitAFxbXz0We64uanBtHTW.SpjWPi.3wW1eXBs-&format=png&h=640&w=1138

 

Before http://images-eds.xboxlive.com/image?url=MSVnmBUo_fHjbLYMjAEUQ1997NqViwRuhp37ECgBmpjTopc.v25oEq7FlZ81jscc3616E36Tp2wC_rugM4_AXX6vhuufxT9tgOhEAAE0AvTpdDcqApcjpo4ULMAZGgck_1aP1bcbpmgDQ6sstTZ6V8K6Rqj.LSF6oTQ1Tuzlfm5RAr0f6ekd5TO0U9Nbk5MyiXTFRD3ZRJqQF67PElrCiCrfu5WVnR99xGrxi3mHQqFtfvDIoWe2mP84jdfvBcFkE11nttcF_alpG12PNRa1RicrdlkLvx4Qs7Jz2VvM7DE-&format=png&h=640&w=1138

 

After http://images-eds.xboxlive.com/image?url=MSVnmBUo_fHjbLYMjAEUQ_QLQhZ8X.0dh1rxYwf72m1jDov7v5dy7Uy0wpPuR3SaegBXdyI18pINJe9CUUe1KiJoNIHWzNIGFFGCFsycanBG.wqgS.rGRaYSNouoymm5BbrZfL9K418J6yIh7QnRg3gM3GootOJ.VEbZ5ydAmHXkWpqquBCw19GkKw4XjBIpIMU9AaPO4AUM8.GHRfrUe9GvcwrjpVwex4VCJxYc..lsykpKnxt5hvO_iW6OQIomNvItv8LcY66HNzAvOHe3a.XCSq0pmcB1s4GlvoAyz9A-&format=png&h=640&w=1138

Before or after that map looks like shit
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Brb, applying to 343.

Ahh shit I forgot to check your post history. Seems like you've said some negative stuff about us here at 343. I'm sorry but you can no longer work with us.

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Ahh shit I forgot to check your post history. Seems like you've said some negative stuff about us here at 343. I'm sorry but you can no longer work with us.

 

I attached my entire post history as my cover letter. Some lazy mofos in your HR department.

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I know I'm probably late to the party about modifications to Slayer, but I had an idea about a way to alleviate blowouts and quitters turning into hide and seek for 12 minutes.

 

What if, in Slayer, every map had an item at bottom mid (or wherever the most vulnerable position is) that a player could go to, hold to interact, and after 5 seconds his team was awarded a point. He can't move while he does it, and the item can't be moved. As soon a player interacts with it he's marked and everyone knows he's doing it.  

 

You could also trade the reward for one ping of the enemy team's location, but that's a little more brutal way of handling it because this solution is intended to be the "mercy rule" of slayer for when it's like 4v1 or your team has uncontested map control the whole game.

 

It would rarely be used in real games, but it'd be an elegant solution to a long standing problem in MM Slayer.

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I know I'm probably late to the party about modifications to Slayer, but I had an idea about a way to alleviate blowouts and quitters turning into hide and seek for 12 minutes.

 

What if, in Slayer, every map had an item at bottom mid (or wherever the most vulnerable position is) that a player could go to, hold to interact, and after 5 seconds his team was awarded a point. He can't move while he does it, and the item can't be moved. As soon a player interacts with it he's marked and everyone knows he's doing it.

 

You could also trade the reward for one ping of the enemy team's location, but that's a little more brutal way of handling it because this solution is intended to be the "mercy rule" of slayer for when it's like 4v1 or your team has uncontested map control the whole game.

 

It would rarely be used in real games, but it'd be an elegant solution to a long standing problem in MM Slayer.

After the 5 seconds, Is the guy scoring the entire time he's in it?

 

Sort of like mixing KoTH with slayer?

 

It sounds better than slayer...

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I know I'm probably late to the party about modifications to Slayer, but I had an idea about a way to alleviate blowouts and quitters turning into hide and seek for 12 minutes.

 

What if, in Slayer, every map had an item at bottom mid (or wherever the most vulnerable position is) that a player could go to, hold to interact, and after 5 seconds his team was awarded a point. He can't move while he does it, and the item can't be moved. As soon a player interacts with it he's marked and everyone knows he's doing it.

 

You could also trade the reward for one ping of the enemy team's location, but that's a little more brutal way of handling it because this solution is intended to be the "mercy rule" of slayer for when it's like 4v1 or your team has uncontested map control the whole game.

 

It would rarely be used in real games, but it'd be an elegant solution to a long standing problem in MM Slayer.

When you say "interact" you mean something where the player can't move or shoot? Not really a fan of that. Why not just have a hillzone bottom mid where every ten consecutive seconds awards one point?

 

I do like the ping idea for 4v1s but the hillzone would solve the same problem. You wouldn't need to find the one hiding enemy because you are gaining points through the hill.

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Congratulations you've got the job!

 

Not for long. I'm going to dig through his reddit profile and point out his comments that will hurt 343's feelings.

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I don't think the item would work very well in potential blowout games and uneven teams. The better team could just camp the item and kill the player and/or use it themselves unless that's what you meant then disregard. I think it would have to be on a script so people are only able to interact with it when it's past a certain score percentage or a certain amount of people quit.

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You could combine gametypes in all types of ways. The match could start with a central hill. Getting 60 seconds in the hill spawns the enemy's flag. Capping the enemy's flag spawns your bomb. Planting your bomb scores. Hill to Flag to Assault.

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-Nevermind-

 

Further elaboration is needed.  Does each objective carry it's own independent time limit, or do they have to complete all of those objectives within a specific match time limit?

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You could combine gametypes in all types of ways. The match could start with a central hill. Getting 60 seconds in the hill spawns the enemy's flag. Capping the enemy's flag spawns your bomb. Planting your bomb scores. Hill to Flag to Assault.

 

Soooo, Achieving multiple goals to reach the final one to win?

 

Invasion

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-Nevermind-

 

Further elaboration is needed. Does each objective carry it's own independent time limit, or do they have to complete all of those objectives within a specific match time limit?

What I proposed earlier would not have a time limit for each objective, once your team completes "phase 1" they could not be kicked back to "phase 1" until they completed all three phases(each team's phase is independent of the other teams' phase, like red could capture the hill and start on the next objective while blue is still finishing capturing the hill).

 

But I was thinking of another scenario that is similar to tennis with the whole "advantage" mechanic.

 

If red team gets 30 seconds in the Neutral hill then a red Neutral bomb is spawned (the enemy team can't pick up this Neutral bomb) and the hill disappears. But if the enemy team returns that red Neutral bomb, the bomb disappears and the hill reappears. The next team to get 30 seconds in the hill gets their team's Neutral bomb spawned. Capturing the hill gives your team the "advantage" but not the point. Planting the bomb grants the point but capturing the hill is a prerequisite to acquiring your team's bomb.

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Soooo, Achieving multiple goals to reach the final one to win?

 

Invasion

Yes but both teams are simultaneously trying to accomplish the same goals. So not...

 

Invasion.

 

More like a symmetrical invasion that can work on smaller arena maps.

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How about a mix of slayer and Koth? Score 50. Hill is in the middle(top or bottom depending on map design) every 5s you get a point. This will help eliminate slayer camping. Note there is no cover when in this hill so make take that into account. 2nd if more than one team is in hill you can’t rack up points until only one team is in there.

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So are we now concluding that the way to improve slayer is to add an objective?

 

Personally, I think the "hill" added to slayer would solve a lot of the gametypes problems, but why not just replace slayer with a KOTH. What is it about slayer that makes it a must have?

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343 is going to do a bastardization of a Battle Royale game in Halo 6 that no one will play because everyone else will do it better. Calling it now.

A large breakout style battle royale would be fun
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A large breakout style battle royale would be fun

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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So are we now concluding that the way to improve slayer is to add an objective?

 

Personally, I think the "hill" added to slayer would solve a lot of the gametypes problems, but why not just replace slayer with a KOTH. What is it about slayer that makes it a must have?

 

 

343 have been there, done that. Strongholds isn't that good.

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