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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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So who knows a thing or two about forge lighting and how it works in this game (specifically on Depths)? I have a map that looks good (minimalist architecture, mostly just simple blocks) and is nice and easy on the eyes in basic forging, but once I hit "bake lights" or load it in a custom game the brightness goes completely out of whack and rapes my eyes. Turning off light bake for all objects has done nothing, and messing with fog/clouds only makes it worse.

Depths lighting is coming from straight above, and will always be completely blown out.  Is there a reason you're using Depths in particular? Just about every other canvas works better.

 

Alpine has some of the best lighting, and the standard daytime has noonish directional lighting which is nice, it comes from relatively straight up so you can get really cool shading.  Overcast is a bit more particular but it can work.

 

Barrens lighting looks nice but the canvas is extremely buggy.  Tidal is the most well rounded canvas for all purposes, especially if you plan on chroma boxing your map. Paralax is great for skybox control with the fog but your actual black contrast on that canvas will get blown out.  Super dark blacks, super bright whites.  

 

If you can Chroma Box and you aren't particularly attached to any particular natural lighting and directional shadowing, I would highly recommend it.  Turning light bake off is essential here as you're essentially creating your own lighting and shading for the map.  Keep in mind that even in a completely chroma boxed map with light bake off, the canvas/lightmap you chose will still affect the way the objects themselves look through manual lighting and coloring.  

 

If you have pictures of your map post them here and I can find you a good fit.

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BR within the ODST universe would be dope af tbh

 

And I agree with slayer being removed

 

 

GoW, CoD, CSGO, Overwatch and R6S don'tt have slayer in competitive and shit is only enjoyable in arena shooters

 

Yeah, but you know it would be Awesome Teleporting Orange Robots and Space Bro Power Rangers Battle Royale.

 

As for Slayer, all of those games either have a much deeper core competitive game mode or a greater variety of competitively acceptable game modes to make up for the lack of depth (CoD). H5 has 3 viable competitive game types and slayer is by far the worst, but if you remove it, you're stuck with an even more stagnant competitive experience. Halo either needs greater map depth (more complex spawn manipulation and actual grenade utility being two things that come to mind) or it needs to bring back a bunch more game modes for competitive (that actually work). Or both.

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i cringe every time someone suggest slayer shouldn't be a competitive game mode

Okay then give a valid reason why it should stay. What competitive merit does it have? What competitive mode is it better than? Do not answer anything with nostalgia or "it's always been there" give actual reasons. Slayer has been the worst competitive gametype out there since H2.

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Okay then give a valid reason why it should stay. What competitive merit does it have? What competitive mode is it better than? Do not answer anything with nostalgia or "it's always been there" give actual reasons. Slayer has been the worst competitive gametype out there since H2.

breakout

 

i've always enjoyed the simplicity of it and it's a nice change of pace, i agree it's the "worst gametype" but i don't agree that it should be excluded from the rotation

 

we need more gametypes not less

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i cringe every time someone suggest slayer shouldn't be a competitive game mode

It offers the least in terms of dynamic gameplay and strategy.

 

I especially hate seeing it be the tie breaker.

 

I would love to see the return of Oddball, KOTH, and assault (a non-shitty) version, at the expense of slayer.

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It offers the least in terms of dynamic gameplay and strategy.

agreed

 

I especially hate seeing it be the tie breaker.

agreed
 

I would love to see the return of Oddball, KOTH, and assault (a non-shitty) version

agreed

 

at the expense of slayer.

disagree

 

why not have all those in addition to slayer

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I understand the complaints but I still see slayer as a better 4v4 game mode than strongholds. Regardless, we need Koth/Oddball back as I really believe those were our strongest game modes historically.

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I understand the complaints but I still see slayer as a better 4v4 game mode than strongholds. Regardless, we need Koth/Oddball back as I really believe those were our strongest game modes historically.

Let's do this again- it'll be much more interesting this time if Boyo provides some insight. :)

 

Strongholds is basically an improvement on Slayer. All of the importance of getting slays and obtaining map control- but the scoring system requires much more movement and coordinated resource management than slayer ever will.

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agreed

 

agreed
 

agreed

 

disagree

 

why not have all those in addition to slayer

 

Because Slayer has been a braindead casual game mode in every Halo game that is not CE and the fact that non-duel/1v1 death match is a casual game mode in literally every other vaguely competitive shooter strongly suggests that only the Halo community pretends otherwise. It adds nothing of worth to the game.

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why not have all those in addition to slayer

Mainly because slayer rarely adds to the presentation, but often takes away. None of the drama possible in slayer matches is exclusive to slayer, but matches are often completely void of drama.

 

And the reason for this is because of how shallow the gametype is.

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Slayer really depends on the map to be honest. Slayer midship and warlock are pretty quick and speedy, something the series should take advantage of. Slayer should always be as fast paced as possible, it provides a nice contrast between the 15 min objective game. 4-5 mins should be around the average length of a good slayer in my opinion. Developers really need to stop putting slayers on incompatible maps this goes for both bungie (Slayer lockout) and 343 (pretty much every map). 

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thoughts on swapping out slayer for extermination?

Extermination is definately more exciting than slayer(and fun), but would need developer attention in order to be viable.

 

It needs a UI that isn't possible in forge. And a custom spawn system.

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Has it occurred to anyone that perhaps the reason Slayer doesn't work well is because of the lack of Power Weapons being in play?

 

Yes, but as long we're stuck with a piss poor starting weapon it has to stay this way. I would love 90s powerups/Snipe/GL/Rail and 120s rocket spawns or even faster. H5's Magnum is just not good enough, and with the Spartan Gimmicks© making it easier than ever before to acquire these weapons, plus the power weapons themselves being mostly free killing sprees, making the power weapons spawn faster is a recipe for disaster.

 

I don't think Slayer should be removed from tournament play, but it should not be the premier game type. The problems with Slayer are problems with modern Halo and not just problems with the game type itself. Also not a fan of replacing it with Extermination, I honestly don't see the appeal of Extermination. it's a cool game type for sure, but at the end of the day it's just a more refined version of Breakout and requires its own set of maps to work.

Now if we could get Extraction, KOTH, Ball and non-shitty Assault in there, HCS might actually be fun to watch.

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Ever wondered what happened to the Didact?

pt3FVkupIP3XVKU6U7oRyfgx8UTtTH5qqG8mdmi9

 

Thats right guys! They revealed the fate of a major villain in a FUCKING COLOURING BOOK.

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Has it occurred to anyone that perhaps the reason Slayer doesn't work well is because of the lack of Power Weapons being in play?

 

Halo 2 only had Power Weapons respawn when they were dropped with no ammo or left alone. Halo 3, Reach, and THE 4 had agonizingly slow respawns for crucial weapons and Power-Ups. The only game that seemed like it was constantly speeding off is CE, because not only did you have fast killing guns, there was something always appearing.

 

What if Slayer had faster spawning weapons than the other gametypes? The main focus for Objective games is...well...the Objective. In Slayer, the Power Weapons are the Objective, and killing the other team fifty times is your Goal. Why not have weapons show up more often? Imagine if the Rockets and Sniper on Coliseum had their timers halved, along with their ammunition. Suddenly, the match speeds up because players are moving.

 

Give players the incentive to go, instead of not going. That's how you make Slayer work.

Well yeah, but as I'm sure you know, the weapon balance has to allow it.  30 second spawns on a sniper works in H1, but definitely doesn't in H5.  Obviously that's an exaggerated example to make a point.  This is one of those hypothetical's that has an obvious answer, but is irrelevant in the context of H5, because it simply doesn't work without major adjustments to the weapons. 

 

So who knows a thing or two about forge lighting and how it works in this game (specifically on Depths)? I have a map that looks good (minimalist architecture, mostly just simple blocks) and is nice and easy on the eyes in basic forging, but once I hit "bake lights" or load it in a custom game the brightness goes completely out of whack and rapes my eyes. Turning off light bake for all objects has done nothing, and messing with fog/clouds only makes it worse.

 

I'm probably average or below average in this area within the forging community, but I'd be happy to check it out if you give me a link.

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I just want to add that as mainly a spectator in halo 5. Close slayer games are some of the most entertaining games to watch. Especially when they slow down near the end. Strongholds always just looks like chaos unless there's an epic comeback or something.

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I just want to add that as mainly a spectator in halo 5. Close slayer games are some of the most entertaining games to watch. Especially when they slow down near the end. Strongholds always just looks like chaos unless there's an epic comeback or something.

Close CTF games > Slow slayers

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Close CTF games > Slow slayers

 

Idk. When a player has a sniper in 49-49 with 20 seconds left. It's pretty epic!

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Slayer in later Halo's sucks for several reasons:

 

1. Less power ups and power weapons on the map. Halo 1 had maps with rockets, camo AND OS, as well as sniper rifles on quick respawns, although I don't really consider the sniper rifle in Halo 1 as a power weapon except on larger maps.

 

How often do you see 3 game changing power ups in later Halo games? Even in Halo 2 few maps had both camo and OS. Plus the way the dynamic spawn system worked in Halo 2 meant players never wanted to move around the map. In Halo 1 if you didn't constantly move around the map the enemy would have OS/Camo AND Rockets and obliterate you.

 

2. Auto aim. Auto aim is far too high. It was kinda bad in Halo 1, but that could be forgiven since it's an early Xbox game when many people could barely look and walk at the same time, there was garbage netcode and no online play.

 

In Halo 2 many people had just come off dial-up, so while the auto aim was far too extreme, at least I can somewhat understand why it was so ridiculous. But Halo 5? The autoaim is almost as bad as it was in Halo 2 in a time where our internet speeds are 10X's what they used to be. It's no longer excusable, especially in a game that is trying to capture the eSports market. The auto aim in Halo 5 should be dropped by at least 50%

 

3. No health packs.

 

Halo is a game that allows you to get shot and there are NO CONSEQUENCES. Hide behind a wall and regenerate your shield in mere seconds.

 

This also punishes players for chasing since by the time you reach the player you shot they've recharged and reset the encounter back to zero. Players should be REWARDED for chasing kills, not punished FFS. If I shoot someone with a sniper in the leg, I am PUNISHED for shooting them in the leg, since they can just hide for 3 seconds, come back out with full HP and I've lost valuable sniper ammo.

 

HOW IS THIS CONSIDERED OK!?!?!

 

Health packs also force movement since players on low health need to relocated to recharge health or their at a disadvantage in their next firefight.

 

4. Kill times are too long. This means 'team shooting' is the only real viable strategy.

 

And this is the MAIN PROBLEM WITH EVERY HALO TITLE SINCE HALO 1.

 

For the best example of this, look no further than Counter Strike.

 

In Counter Strike you can find clips of a single player killing an entire team with their starting pistol during an 'eco round'. Without a power weapon, the game allows a skilled player to decimate others if they have amazing aim.

 

This DOES NOT HAPPEN in Halo any more. Halo 1 had pretty high auto aim, but thanks to leading and strafing speed, it was still pretty damn hard to land a TSK so firefights between players were always exciting to watch. In Halo 5 it's generally who see who's first. Doing a 180 and killing the guy that shot you in the back? So rare it's not even worth mentioning.

 

Short kill times allow single players to do more. It means players can wander alone instead of holding hands with their team mates all game.

 

Check out this CS:GO montage. You will NEVER see clips like this in Halo 5 against teams of roughly equal skill.

 

 

Obviously Halo will never play this quick due to shields - and I don't want it to, but giving players a weapon like the H1 pistol allows players do kill a player before their 3 team mates come around the corner while your target is still at half shields and 4v1 you.

 

The more 1v1 encounters the better.

 

EDIT -

 

Also, removing slayer as a game type altogether?

 

lol, no thanks.

 

Fix the game, there's nothing wrong with the gametype and decreasing kill times would improve the game as a whole.

 

Team Slayer is a good game type because it's the only game type that relies solely on killing, which is a good thing IMO.

 

KOTH, Assault, Oddball, CTF, etc, are all good because they require different styles of strategy, but Slayer is the most pure game type. You can win objective kills with less aiming skill. It's a lot harder to win a Slayer game type when you're opponents have better aiming skill. In a first person shooter, aiming skill should ALWAYS be emphasised and that's what Slayer does as a game type.

 

Having a mix of objective and TS means generally the team with the best team work AND the best individual skill rises to the top.

 

If you encourage elimination game types in a death match game - PLEASE, go play Counter Strike and leave Halo alone.

 

Having elimination game types in a death match game is beyond stupid and I'm sick of developers thinking that "elimination = esports" just because Counter Strike does it. Destiny is also trying it and it just makes me want to never touch the PvP multiplayer.

 

Elimination game types just work FAR too differently to other gametypes within the arena FPS genre. Arena FPS should be all about speed and flashy kills. Elimination encourages too much camping and caution.

 

Also, it doesn't work very well in games without instant kill times like CS and R6:S.

 

I play death match shooters because I enjoy the fast paced non-stop action. I don't play death match shooters so I can enjoy watching a death screen for a minute at a time. Elimination has a time and place. Halo is not that place.

 

 

I especially hate seeing it be the tie breaker.

 

Slayer is used as a tie breaker because it's much less common to have a tied TS game than a tied CTF/Assault game.

 

KOTH and Oddball could theoretically be used for tie breakers since they allow a greater variation in points, but IMO they're not really "pure" enough to be a tie breaker. Slayer show cases a players shooting abilities. I'd rather have a series go to a team that can shoot better than the team that can control the ball better. Makes perfect sense IMO.

 

 

Because Slayer has been a braindead casual game mode in every Halo game that is not CE and the fact that non-duel/1v1 death match is a casual game mode in literally every other vaguely competitive shooter strongly suggests that only the Halo community pretends otherwise. It adds nothing of worth to the game.

 

Uh... WTF competitive shooters are you talking about here? CS and Rainbow Six don't count since they're tactical games. CoD doesn't count because CoD is just CS:GO for casuals. Overwatch doesn't count because Overwatch literally gives you wallhacks and autoaim as "abilities" - You know... Stuff you used to be banned from servers for in FPS that actually require skill.

 

So that leaves... Other arena FPS like UT and Quake, both of which has has team death match as competitive modes, although 1v1 was really the flagship game mode of those series.

 

Not that it matters anyway, because Halo plays so much differently to any other shooter. It doesn't play like Quake and UT because the movement speed isn't fast enough and it doesn't play like Call of Duty or Counter Strike because the kill times are longer and there are power ups on the map and it doesn't play like Team Fortress or Overwatch because it doesn't have classed based abilities.

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Slayers just generally aren't all that interesting until the last few minutes- and that's only if they are close. The lack of depth with Halo's utility weapon since H2 doesn't help, but I think this inherent to 4v4 halo.

 

Even A 3-0 CTF can be often be closer than the scoreboard suggests, and up until the last flag Cap, comebacks are always realistic possibilities. So as a viewer, your still on your toes. The same goes for pretty much every other objective gametype to some degree.

 

But slayer- the drama just typically isn't there.

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