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CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Everybody here feels the same way about you.  Explaining repeatedly how your contrived/niche examples are actually proving our point.  Every argument you give trying to support hologram as a mechanic actually does the opposite considering that every time, the odds of success are marginal at best and have a good chance of actually putting the person who sent the hologram at a disadvantage in scenarios that are not incredibly likely anyway.  No matter how many theoretical scenarios you dream up, existing mechanics like OS and Camo are infinitely more flexible.  A new power up like Haste actually has some potential efficacy and should be explorer.  Hologram can stay on the cutting room floor.

 

 

Hologram has been tried before.  Its ineffective and not fun.  we know this from experience that no amount of your "though experimenting" can possibly override.  give it a rest.

First off, why don't you just speak for yourself instead of "everybody".

 

I never claimed that Hologram was on the same level as OS and Camo. Not really sure where you got that. Should we not have the Plasma Rifle because it's not as effective as the Rocket Launcher?

 

I forgot I was talking to the guy who was never once fooled by a Hologram, not for a second, not for an instant. You instantly spot the ruse every time. Holograms may as well be invisible to you. Your brain doesn't even register them existing. Youve never so much as moved your reticle a millimeter when one went by.

 

Are you sure you want to use the argument of "it's no longer in the game so it must be bad" because that logic can be flipped on you for many aspects of Halo that I bet you wish would return. Want the CE Magnum back? Nope it was cut for a reason.

 

Could you provide me with one compelling reason why Hologram shouldn't be included?

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The playlist definitely has its very undesirable issues, but I still think its better than vanilla H5. If they fixed some issues and had better maps, I'd play it more. Still, better than stage 4 Team Arena cancer.

It is better than vanilla h5. If we had a decent starting weapon, no radar, and no grenade hit markers + asym gametypes it would be damn good.

 

So basically, the h5 in its dna are the only things holding it back.

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I get that. But it's a weird proposition : if enough people suffer through this decidedly anti-classic experience, then we might improve it down the line.

 

Seems to me like the obvious thing to do would be to delive an experience that captures the esssence of classic gameplay, and use THOSE numbers to see if expansion is worth it.

 

Like I said man, I really appreciate the hard work forgers put into it. i feel like the tools were used to the best of their capabilities. I'm just disappointed.

 

impressions weigh more on population numbers than demand. If people aren't enjoying themselves, they won't play it- even if they have an interest in classic gameplay.

While the playlist certainly has its issues, to call it anti-classic I think is perhaps a little too far. Compared to H5 in any capacity, it is a more classic experience despite not being "fully" classic. Absolutely when looking at it especially from a competitive standpoint, there are major flaws like radar, bad choice of starting weapon, ultra long shield recharge, etc., but bottom line is it's a social playlist (for now?). In its current form I find it more enjoyable than any other H5 settings that have been put forth, though I admit that I would prefer a more competitively tailored settings choice. It's a step in the right direction IMO even though it may not be everything that we all had hoped it would be.

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First off, why don't you just speak for yourself instead of "everybody".

 

I never claimed that Hologram was on the same level as OS and Camo. Not really sure where you got that. Should we not have the Plasma Rifle because it's not as effective as the Rocket Launcher?

 

I forgot I was talking to the guy who was never once fooled by a Hologram, not for a second, not for an instant. You instantly spot the ruse every time. Holograms may as well be invisible to you. Your brain doesn't even register them existing. Youve never so much as moved your reticle a millimeter when one went by.

 

Are you sure you want to use the argument of "it's no longer in the game so it must be bad" because that logic can be flipped on you for many aspects of Halo that I bet you wish would return. Want the CE Magnum back? Nope it was cut for a reason.

 

Could you provide me with one compelling reason why Hologram shouldn't be included?

There is no depth. The execution opportunities are shallow, and limited. Success is not a function of the users skill. Successful "defense" is not a function of the defenders skill. Its nothing more than an uskilled hail mary play, proven not to have a meaningful impact on the meta.

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Yes you’re right. You’ll definitely see significant benefits from running on HDR sets, and of course the game itself renders in 4k and takes advantage of higher resolution textures (will be a serious download) and assets, but HDR specifically was tricky for a couple of reasons specific to H5

 

H5:1X dowsload size confirmed:  343 gbees.  

i.e. the entire stock One X hardrive.

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It is better than vanilla h5. If we had a decent starting weapon, no radar, and no grenade hit markers + asym gametypes it would be damn good.

 

So basically, the h5 in its dna are the only things holding it back.

is it better than HCS settings?

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is it better than HCS settings?

 

More fun or more competitive? It's more fun, but the wider skill gap that could be achieved by removing the SA's is outweighed by the full radar and BR starts alone. They also lowered the movement speed instead of enhancing it, making the BR even easier. Let's not talk about the gametypes and the ******** shield recharge delay.

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First off, why don't you just speak for yourself instead of "everybody".

Because almost every frequent user in this thread shares similar opinions. I agree with him immensely, for example. If anyone else was as offended as you with this assumption, they would’ve mentioned it by now. Alas, you seem just as ignorant about this as you are of everything else with Halo (and pointlessly stubborn as heck).

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is it better than HCS settings?

Its roughly an even trade. Movement is more skillful, liberating, and rewarding with maps that are designed around crouch jumping instead of clamber.

 

But then there's the oppressive h5 BR and the radar, which penalize movement.

 

But then there's the H5 grenades and hit markers, and long shield regen, which penalize not moving.

 

Autos are still annoying, but the br is so easy, they are mostly a non factor

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Because almost every frequent user in this thread shares similar opinions. I agree with him immensely, for example. If anyone else was as offended as you with this assumption, they would’ve mentioned it by now. Alas, you seem just as ignorant about this as you are of everything else with Halo (and pointlessly stubborn as heck).

You really don't think Hologram could be useful? You don't think it could aide in breaking setups by misleading your enemy, even if only for a moment? You don't think it could be used as a recon tool? You don't think it could have any potential beneficial uses in gameplay?

 

I just don't see how you could think Hologram is useless.

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The only games where Hologram works are twitch shooters like CoD and Titanfall because getting distracted for a just split second will get you killed instantly. But even there it's just a stupid gimmick that doesn't really add to the game and - surprise - no one uses it against decent opponents. Just like your mini Spartan idea, Hologram is only useful for trolling in social or an action sack game type.

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The only games where Hologram works are twitch shooters like CoD and Titanfall because getting distracted for a just split second will get you killed instantly. But even there it's just a stupid gimmick that doesn't really add to the game and - surprise - no one uses it against decent opponents. Just like your mini Spartan idea, Hologram is only useful for trolling in social or an action sack game type.

Isn't getting the first shot on an enemy a pretty good advantage? Doesn't Hologram help facilitate getting the first shot on an enemy?

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Could you provide me with one compelling reason why Hologram shouldn't be included?

Hologram, in combination with its' family of gimmicks, turns Halo into more of a thought/strategy/team shot based meta game as opposed to being more focused on individual aiming skill like it should be.

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Hologram, in combination with its' family of gimmicks, turns Halo into more a thought based meta game as opposed to being more focused on individual aiming skill like it should be.

Kinda like how figuring out where a Camo guy is is a thought based meta game?

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Kinda like how figuring out where a Camo guy is is a thought based meta game?

How many Times does this have to be spelled out for you?

 

Hologram- you deploy it, and hope someone falls for it. You then guess when you should emerge. Once it's deployed ther user has no influence over whether someone is fooled or not.

 

Camo- you spend the entirety of its duration, maneuvering to stay out of sight whilst simultaneously attempting to deal damage and/or play the objective.

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First off, why don't you just speak for yourself instead of "everybody".

 

I never claimed that Hologram was on the same level as OS and Camo. Not really sure where you got that. Should we not have the Plasma Rifle because it's not as effective as the Rocket Launcher?

 

I forgot I was talking to the guy who was never once fooled by a Hologram, not for a second, not for an instant. You instantly spot the ruse every time. Holograms may as well be invisible to you. Your brain doesn't even register them existing. Youve never so much as moved your reticle a millimeter when one went by.

 

Are you sure you want to use the argument of "it's no longer in the game so it must be bad" because that logic can be flipped on you for many aspects of Halo that I bet you wish would return. Want the CE Magnum back? Nope it was cut for a reason.

 

Could you provide me with one compelling reason why Hologram shouldn't be included?

 

 

I covered this shit in prior responses, in some cases multiple times.

 

And no, i will not dumb it down and give you a bullet pointed list like im your damn House Elf.  You were party to the entire conversation, if you can't pay attention or retrace your steps, that's not my problem.

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How many Times does this have to be spelled out for you?

Hologram- you deploy it, and hope someone falls for it. You then guess when you should emerge. Once it's deployed ther user has no influence over whether someone is fooled or not.

Camo- you spend the entirety of its duration, maneuvering to stay out of sight whilst simultaneously attempting to deal damage and/or play the objective.

Don't you also hope no one sees you moving in Camo then guess when the best time to attack would be?

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Just went 26 and 5 on Isolation because the ghost is clearly balanced against 90% movement speed and 10s charge delay.

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These spawning issues did not appear in extensive testing, so i don't know what more we could do. These things usually only show up after the maps are released into the wild. In most cases we copy/pasted the respawn zones right from Guardian, and well, they work fine there.

 

37064799240_37fbe40a3a_o.png dan

 

36611326744_0a4965bf62_o.pngdan

 

Actually just dropped in to let you know that we did get static timed weapons working in time for this playlist. If you want to feature them on your forge maps i will be making a tut later this week.

 

Also, i know you guys love to bash all things but please give this playlist a shot. A high population in a 'no spartan abilities' playlist can send the signals you have been trying to send for years. Don't give up on it because one very specific detail puts you off. Also, i will ask about the shields.

Thank you for posting here. As far as Isolation CTF goes, I was on Red team and spawned on blue side Silver twice. I joined in progress, so that might be a factor that likely went untested. My first spawn of the game put me above the enemy base and I was extremely disoriented as a result.

 

I'm guessing the person adjusting the settings meant to have a 10 second recharge time, not delay. That would make a lot more sense.

 

Please inquire about the movement speed as well. It feels VERY slow. Unnecessarily slow. These maps would play fine at 100% speed.

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Don't you also hope no one sees you moving in Camo then guess when the best time to attack would be?

No, not at all. you intentionally move so that you aren't seen, being mindful of where your opponents are positioned and looking, and you adjust your speed and position accordingly. meanwhile, you assess the situation, factoring in objective needs to determine when the best time to attack is - IF attacking is even the best course of action.

 

Take this play for example.

https://youtu.be/uIxJrn5OoD8

 

Countless options were weighed throughout the duration of the camo. decisions were based on the info he gathered via what he saw happening around him.

 

Compare that to ALL of you're camo scenarios - there is no info to gather or base you're decision on. You deploy the holo and whether or not it works is a coin toss. A coin weighted to land on 'no' most of the time.

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First off, why don't you just speak for yourself instead of "everybody".

 

I never claimed that Hologram was on the same level as OS and Camo. Not really sure where you got that. Should we not have the Plasma Rifle because it's not as effective as the Rocket Launcher?

 

I forgot I was talking to the guy who was never once fooled by a Hologram, not for a second, not for an instant. You instantly spot the ruse every time. Holograms may as well be invisible to you. Your brain doesn't even register them existing. Youve never so much as moved your reticle a millimeter when one went by.

 

Are you sure you want to use the argument of "it's no longer in the game so it must be bad" because that logic can be flipped on you for many aspects of Halo that I bet you wish would return. Want the CE Magnum back? Nope it was cut for a reason.

 

Could you provide me with one compelling reason why Hologram shouldn't be included?

The fourth paragraph is where I stopped there. First of all, no, the only reason why the CE pistol was cut because of how "overpowered" it was for a "sidearm", because people didn't like the idea of a pistol being a utility weapon of an FPS. "It's no longer in the game, so it must be bad" isn't an accurate description of what @@Apoll0 just posted to you. He clearly implied that it didn't work the first time, so it might not work, now.

 

 

Don't you also hope no one sees you moving in Camo then guess when the best time to attack would be?

You do realize that Camo, unlike Hologram, is a power-up, right? With Camo, you don't have to "hope" you don't get spotted, as long as you have good maneuvering skills and a thoughtful way of traversing around the map without being seen; the same can't be said for the latter, though.

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Surely it wouldn't be too difficult to completely recreate the MLG playlist from H3 in halo 5 if we can already go this far? Evolved settings, no radar, good maps including Narrows/Construct/Heretic/Amp/Ons. Then the only issue is things like the BR but that might get a nerf if they don't totally fuck up the weapon tuning.

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It is difficult, and don't call me surely.
                             

                                              - 343 probably

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Surely it wouldn't be too difficult to completely recreate the MLG playlist from H3 in halo 5 if we can already go this far? Evolved settings, no radar, good maps including Narrows/Construct/Heretic/Amp/Ons. Then the only issue is things like the BR but that might get a nerf if they don't totally fuck up the weapon tuning.

Probably won't ever happen. The current classic playlist only exists for the 10th anniversary of 3.

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Camo and Hologram both create visual misinformation. Camo and Hologram both require the user to make decisions.

 

With Camo, you choose when to attack and reveal your position.

 

With Hologram, you choose when to deploy and reveal your position.

 

Both of these items rely on fooling your opponent.

 

Camo fools your enemy into thinking you are not there.

 

Hologram fools your enemy into thinking you are there.

 

Every criticism I have heard about Hologram can also be said about Camo due to sheer similarity of the two items. I really don't understand how you can consider one objectively good and the other objectively bad.

 

I think Hologram can add depth to Halo's gameplay and no one has made any points that have caused me to think otherwise. Calling it stupid or a gimmick or annoying hasn't been a compelling enough argument to change my mind.

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