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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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What playlist is it?

It's called Weapon Update Test or something, it replaced Team Arena.

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So on top of the BR having random spread and recoil, it also has a slower fire rate. It fires as fast as the Halo 3 BR, hell some of you suggested it felt like a Hitscan version of it. Which means it no longer has a 1.28 Perfect Kill time. It's now a 1.4, similar to the MLG BR for Halo 3 since it was so inconsistent in default.

 

Gunfighter now has the same draw and reload speed as the Default Magnum, along with having recoil and spread and next to no Red Reticle Range. It basically functions as a last resort CQC weapon, but it becomes useless in a game like Halo.

 

DMR and Carbine felt perfect, their aim assist and range being far more reasonable to fight with and against.

 

Even so, having these guns against the untouched Light Rifle, or being able to use the Flagnum, shows me what 343's idea of weapon balancing is this time around.

 

If you manage to grab the Flag on a CTF game, just start fighting against a BR, or a DMR, or a Carbine. It feels almost easier to fight against them, because the Magnum's crazy magnetism is helping you more than it's helping them. I have a theory that 343 are indeed going to make this change across the board, and probably never try another set of weapon testing. The Magnum will no longer be the most skillful precision in the game, but the easiest.

 

You could argue that its ease of use can be balanced with its lack of far range fighting (unless you're good at white reticle combat), but my point still stands. Whether or not people are okay with this is up to them. I'm not entirely decisive yet, and I could be wrong about them setting up another Weapon Test.

 

Who knows?

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Even so, having these guns against the untouched Light Rifle, or being able to use the Flagnum, shows me what 343's idea of weapon balancing is this time around.

 

Don't forget that the Storm Rifle and the Sniper Rifle remain unchanged, despite being two of the most OP weapons in Halo history. This new sandbox will be absolutely crazy. The huge problem of escaping gunfights is only exacerbated with this new BR, we are now basically playing H3 with Sprint and Thruster.

 

 

I have a theory that 343 are indeed going to make this change across the board, and probably never try another set of weapon testing. The Magnum will no longer be the most skillful precision in the game, but the easiest.

 

Disagree with this though. Despite the nerf, the BR still feels way easier than the Magnum and it's not just because of the burst that makes headshots easier. The insane bullet magnetism has been toned down a little, but it still snaps to targets too much. It feels like a mix of the H3 and H2 BR in terms of aim assist. It's just extremely inconsistent now, because of the spread, but not necessarily harder.

The Carbine feels similar to pre-patch, just with shorter red reticle range. The only gun that really feels harder to aim now is the DMR, but only out of scope.

 

Let's hope this whole thing makes 343i finally realize that the Flagnum is shit tier design and they get rid of this cancer for H6.

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Don't forget that the Storm Rifle and the Sniper Rifle remain unchanged, despite being two of the most OP weapons in Halo history. This new sandbox will be absolutely crazy. The huge problem of escaping gunfights is only exacerbated with this new BR, we are now basically playing H3 with Sprint and Thruster.

 

 

Disagree with this though. Despite the nerf, the BR still feels way easier than the Magnum and it's not just because of the burst that makes headshots easier. The insane bullet magnetism has been toned down a little, but it still snaps to targets too much. It feels like a mix of the H3 and H2 BR in terms of aim assist. It's just extremely inconsistent now, because of the spread, but not necessarily harder.

The Carbine feels similar to pre-patch, just with shorter red reticle range. The only gun that really feels harder to aim now is the DMR, but only out of scope.

 

Let's hope this whole thing makes 343i finally realize that the Flagnum is shit tier design and they get rid of this cancer for H6.

 

I dont think there is any appreciable magnetism on the BR at all anymore...

 

I totally agree with the sentiment about the SR and Sniper being an even bigger problem now.  Challenging a sniper at range is a dumber thing to do now than it was before.  SR is unbeatable period.

 

Here is my take on the BR:

 

Good:

Toned down AA and bullet magnetism - Very happy with these changes.  Gun was piss-easy before

 

Don't care:

Recoil -  A lot of complaining about this but the gun returns to center before you can fire again so the only compensation you need to make is to aim a little lower the farther out the target.

 

Bad:

Random spread -  The spread is a fairly tight circle, tighter than H3, but its still random and fucks you at longer ranges.  wtf stop it.  make it short and linear or get rid of it. 

Fire rate - I can't tell if the base fire rate is slower or if its just the spacing between the 3 rounds of the burst (or both) but its definitely slow.  I was an advocate for spacing out the 3 rounds a little more but keeping the total TTK the same, but this feels like overkill.

Close Range - fighting up close with this weapon feels artificially difficult. Cant tell if its the aiming, the Aim Assist changes or a combination.

 

TLDR; The problem with the BR was that it would aim for you and bend bullets around corners.  Those issues have been resolved, but then a bunch of other unnecessary shit was done on top of that.  KISS.

 

SMG: I like the changes to this actually.  It melts close range, but simply thrusting backwards takes you out of that range to get a kill with a more skillful weapon.

 

AR: This still feels like it can destroy too easily.  a slow tap-fire (release every 4 or 5 bullets) keeps the spread under control and still extends the range significantly.

 

DMR: AA and Magnetism toned down so this sits in a good place now imo.  My only complaint is that like the BR, this feels artificially difficult to aim with up close.

 

GF Mag: Still undecided.  Can't tell if i'm not used to the fire rate or if getting headshots is (again) artificially difficult.

 

I have not had enough reps with the other weapons to provide any kind of educated opinion.

 

My general sentiment is positive.  The AA and magnetism reductions across the board are welcome but... if those don't get extended to at least the sniper, it will become even more of a monster than it already is.

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I'm perfectly fine with the BR having shitty random spread/recoil as long as it's not the starting weapon (horrible idea) since, like most of the sandbox, it shouldn't even exist in the first place. "Retuning" these weapons is a total waste of time because most of them either need to be given a complete overhaul in terms of how they function or simply be removed altogether.

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Ok, so re-reading my own post, the only substantive changes that aren't like "well duh do this" are to the BR.

 

Aim Assist and Magnetism toned-down across the board?  Obvious

Nerfed range on the Auto's? Duh

 

The BR has been "over thought" and nobody was asking for it to be the starting weapon.

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The BR and Carbine are only improved in the sense compared to the magnum they won't outright dominate it, and we might no longer be spawning with the damn magnum.

 

The SMG still melts players stupidly fast, just at a shorter range.

 

The AR is now an automatic that punishes firing in automatic.

 

The Railgun is actually nice.

 

The Grenade Launcher feels pratically no different. It's still easy as fuck to use. But coupled with the Railgun nerf it's just a better Railgun now.

 

The Gunfighter is a waste of developer resources now.

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The BR and Carbine are only improved in the sense compared to the magnum they won't outright dominate it, and we might no longer be spawning with the damn magnum.

 

The SMG still melts players stupidly fast, just at a shorter range.

 

The AR is now an automatic that punishes firing in automatic.

 

The Railgun is actually nice.

 

The Grenade Launcher feels pratically no different. It's still easy as fuck to use. But coupled with the Railgun nerf it's just a better Railgun now.

 

The Gunfighter is a waste of developer resources now.

 

IF autos are going to be part of the game, the current SMG is really what i would rather they be. Its rewarding to use up close and presents the user with an advantage if they get the drop on someone, yet is counterable by a player with good awareness who hits his shots. As long as autos are on-map pickups in the tier 2 category, im fine with it.

 

If nothing were to change to the weapons as they currently stand in the playlist, i would actually like to see recon DMR starts tested.

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IF autos are going to be part of the game, the current SMG is really what i would rather they be. Its rewarding to use up close and presents the user with an advantage if they get the drop on someone, yet is counterable by a player with good awareness who hits his shots. As long as autos are on-map pickups in the tier 2 category, im fine with it.

 

If nothing were to change to the weapons as they currently stand in the playlist, i would actually like to see recon DMR starts tested.

Did they remove the two shot beatdown from the DMR?

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What other game developer would release changes to the weapon sandbox (test playlist, i know) and not even detail what they are? and just leave it up to the player to figure it out? it's fucking unheard of

 

 

and when we do play it we realise it is a starting weapon with random spread that feels horribly inconsistant

 

Railgun, nade launcher and camo changes are decent

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Did they remove the two shot beatdown from the DMR?

No.  pretty much just chopped the assist and magnetism in half.  Damage and fire rate seem untouched.

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What other game developer would release changes to the weapon sandbox (test playlist, i know) and not even detail what they are? and just leave it up to the player to figure it out? it's fucking unheard of

 

 

and when we do play it we realise it is a starting weapon with random spread that feels horribly inconsistant

 

Railgun, nade launcher and camo changes are decent

Lot of developers actually. Titanfall 2 is a recent one that comes to mind

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I was able to play 1 game and holy shit does the BR feel random. Sometimes you don't get the kill when you 100% are certain you're on target. 4 shots feel as random as H3 now. They could've just done the same changes but not added spread lol. BR doesn't feel much harder at all. Also the smg doesn't really feel much different. Thing still shreds. And Grenade launcher should be a tier 3 that thing is still OP. Didn't get to use anything else. What weird changes.

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I was able to play 1 game and holy shit does the BR feel random. Sometimes you don't get the kill when you 100% are certain you're on target. 4 shots feel as random as H3 now. They could've just done the same changes but not added spread lol. BR doesn't feel much harder at all. Also the smg doesn't really feel much different. Thing still shreds. And Grenade launcher should be a tier 3 that thing is still OP. Didn't get to use anything else. What *weird* changes.

You spelt pointless wrong.

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343 is going to toss all our feedback aside, look at the raw data and see there are fewer perfect kills and that the overall accuracy has decreased with the BR because of the random spread. Then they'll call the update a success and force BR starts into HCS.

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Halo 5 BR has Halo 3 BR  spread? There's your Halo 3 Anniversary muffuggas 

343 is the kind of developer who would make an SMG start playlist then cite it when asked why they don't make a classic Halo game.

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343 is the kind of developer who would make an SMG start playlist then cite it when asked why they don't make a classic Halo game.

 

They would make SMG starts and a ViDoc to pass it off as their own idea, until there was backlash and then they'd blame fans for asking for it. 

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I dont think there is any appreciable magnetism on the BR at all anymore...

 

I totally agree with the sentiment about the SR and Sniper being an even bigger problem now.  Challenging a sniper at range is a dumber thing to do now than it was before.  SR is unbeatable period.

 

Yeah I went back into BTB to compare and there is actually a noticeable difference in the BR aim assist. I've been playing too much H3 and CE latetely and forgot just how stupid the default H5 BR really is. I'm gonna miss that powerful fast burst and the accuracy though.

 

Man it's so stupid, one of the few things H5 did right is that every precision weapon fired dead on in the center of the screen without any RNG involved. Now we're back to H3 and pre-patch Reach days of inconsistent gunfights and slow as shit kill times. 4sk Magnum is all anyone ever asked for.

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I was able to play 1 game and holy shit does the BR feel random. Sometimes you don't get the kill when you 100% are certain you're on target. 4 shots feel as random as H3 now. They could've just done the same changes but not added spread lol. BR doesn't feel much harder at all. Also the smg doesn't really feel much different. Thing still shreds. And Grenade launcher should be a tier 3 that thing is still OP. Didn't get to use anything else. What weird changes.

It's annoying as hell. It evben makes the sniper more powerful.

 

 

All we asked for was lower magnetism, and AA. Thats it. Everything else they added to the rifle sucks. Spread is never a good idea, and aiming up close is like you arms are in a cast

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Yeah I went back into BTB to compare and there is actually a noticeable difference in the BR aim assist. I've been playing too much H3 and CE latetely and forgot just how stupid the H5 BR really is.

Yeah I played a bunch of social the night before and the default BR is sticky as fuck and sooo forgiving with rewarding headshots.  You can regularly get 4 or 5 perfects in a game with that BR.

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"Retuning" these weapons is a total waste of time because we're still sprinting/thrusting/spartancharging/groundpounding around with them whilst the aim is poo poo.

ftfy 

 

Halo 5 BR has Halo 3 BR  spread? There's your Halo 3 Anniversary muffuggas

I told you @@Moa

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I did not know this

I think it's a superior system as long as the steps are like.

 

1. Hey guys we want you to test some weapon changes. Here are the ones we tweaked and what we are hoping to accomplish. No details yet.

 

2. (One week later) Ok we heard your feedback and made some tweaks. Try it out again? Repeat as necessary

 

3. Ok taking the feedback and stats into account, here is the final, very detailed, very nerdy list of changes made to each weapon compared to the old default.

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I did not know this

 

 

I think it's a superior system as long as the steps are like.

 

1. Hey guys we want you to test some weapon changes. Here are the ones we tweaked and what we are hoping to accomplish. No details yet.

 

2. (One week later) Ok we heard your feedback and made some tweaks. Try it out again? Repeat as necessary

 

3. Ok taking the feedback and stats into account, here is the final, very detailed, very nerdy list of changes made to each weapon compared to the old default.

 

He nailed it.  Sometimes actual numbers are vital to have as placebo effects can influence weapon balancing and perceptions in poor ways.  Sometimes it's better to not provide specific numbers to see if things feel good without influencing player's perceptions ahead of time.  As long as developers provide hard numbers at the end of the day, I think the process is fine.  When we don't get numbers at all it can be problematic.

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