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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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@@Kell Of Scots I'm on board with most of that, but did you actually mean to say an average of 8 major pickups for 4v4 maps? Maybe I'm just confused about what you define as "major." Because even when subtracting rockets, sniper, OS, and camo, I can't think up four different CE sniper-level weapons, and neither would I recommend that if they existed. There's a point where having that many "major" items devolves into chaos because not all of them can be reasonably contested for pickup, regardless of how competent the utility weapon is.

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@@Kell Of Scots I'm on board with most of that, but did you actually mean to say an average of 8 major pickups for 4v4 maps? Maybe I'm just confused about what you define as "major." Because even when subtracting rockets, sniper, OS, and camo, I can't think up four different CE sniper-level weapons, and neither would I recommend that if they existed. There's a point where having that many "major" items devolves into chaos because not all of them can be reasonably contested for pickup, regardless of how competent the utility weapon is.

<3

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@@Gobias

 

If there were two "Power Grenade" variants (i.e. Not frag or plasma), couldn't they fill some of those spots?

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A short delay would allow a player to briefly take cover, as to not be one-shot, then pop back out and continue the fight. A long shield recharge delay wouldn't allow for this.

 

Doesn't a slow recharge rate allow for more dynamic encounters, where players aren't just no shields or full shields, like a fast recharge rate would essentially provide?

Yeah that's the 'benefit' of the slow recharge. And I considered that, but I find clear communication to be more important.

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What type of pace should Halo have? Which shield recharge mechanic would fit best with that pace?

Fast pace best pace

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Fast pace best pace

And would your idea of fast paced Halo be better served with a short shield recharge delay or a long shield recharge delay?

 

Should players be allowed to re-enter the fray at greater frequency (short recharge delay) or should players not be allowed to postpone their death because they gained their shields back so quickly (long recharge delay)?

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Same. I'm a very evidence-based person, so i like to make decisions where data backs it up, but that certainly doesn't mean if there isn't good data (or nobody knows how to dissect it properly) changes shouldn't be made. You're right, without empirical data, just watching people play the game made it clear that autos were fucked, for example.

 

 

Me too man. I'm an electrical engineer. I love me some numbers.

 

But the problem with numbers, especially when you are dealing with commitees are two fold- 1) people interpret them or collect them in ways that defend their bias 2) it takes FOREVER to decide what the numbers Truly mean.

 

To me, one look at a chart of TTKs is the only data needed to realize the issues with the AR. Beyond that data on the outcome of AR battles (which appears to be what was used to determine the issue exists) is wholly unnecessary. Yes, the fact that high skilled players using an AR can't outplay lower skilled players using the AR is problematic. But the real problem is that no matter how skilled you are, being weak and encountering an AR player is a death sentence- there's nothing anyone can do. And that should be obvious.

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And would your idea of fast paced Halo be better served with a short shield recharge delay or a long shield recharge delay?

 

Should players be allowed to re-enter the fray at greater frequency (short recharge delay) or should players not be allowed to postpone their death because they gained their shields back so quickly (long recharge delay)?

Depends on a lot of factors. For example CE 2v2s are really fast, but the shield recharge is slow. It's good though because the utility weapon is so good, and the strafe really causes missed shots. Ideally slow to start and medium charge but a fast killing skill based utility weapon to empower the individual no matter what their shields are at.

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Fast pace best pace

Fast pace is love, fast pace is life. - Anonymous

Fast pace is as fast pace does. - Forest Gump

A fast pace gathers no moss. - John Heywood (c. 1497-1580)

All slow paced things must come to an end. - H.H. Riley (1857)

Come what may, fast paced halo runs through the roughest day. - William Shakespeare (1564-1616)

Off with the slow paced and on with the fast. - unknown

The leopard does not change his fast pace-ness. - William Shakespeare (1564-1616)

343 thinks of changing the Halo, but no one at 343 thinks of changing themselves. - Leo Tolstoy

All change is not growth, as all movement is not forward. - Ellen Glasgow

 

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Fast pace is love, fast pace is life. - Anonymous

Fast pace is as fast pace does. - Forest Gump

A fast pace gathers no moss. - John Heywood (c. 1497-1580)

All slow paced things must come to an end. - H.H. Riley (1857)

Come what may, fast paced halo runs through the roughest day. - William Shakespeare (1564-1616)

Off with the slow paced and on with the fast. - unknown

The leopard does not change his fast pace-ness. - William Shakespeare (1564-1616)

343 thinks of changing the Halo, but no one at 343 thinks of changing themselves. - Leo Tolstoy

All change is not growth, as all movement is not forward. - Ellen Glasgow

 

Quietman is really weird - OG Nick (1996 - Current)

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And would your idea of fast paced Halo be better served with a short shield recharge delay or a long shield recharge delay?

 

Should players be allowed to re-enter the fray at greater frequency (short recharge delay) or should players not be allowed to postpone their death because they gained their shields back so quickly (long recharge delay)?

No love for medium recharge delay?

 

For real though, the recharge rate shouldn't be too fast or too slow, it should be juuuuust right.

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No love for medium recharge delay?

 

For real though, the recharge rate shouldn't be too fast or too slow, it should be juuuuust right.

"Just make the game good" = VALUABLE FEEDBACK

 

Why not, just as a thought exercise, take both examples to their extremes then compare the pros and cons of those exaggerated examples. This may give you insight into what you truely believe.

 

I mean, you do realize that saying "just make it right" is completely fucking useless right?

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@@Gobias

 

If there were two "Power Grenade" variants (i.e. Not frag or plasma), couldn't they fill some of those spots?

Power grenades is an interesting idea. 

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Power grenades is an interesting idea.

 

What prototype ideas would you test as Power Grenades?

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Things to consider with shield recharge rate:

 

1.  The lethality of your game.  The longer enemies take to die, the longer the recharge should be, otherwise escape becomes too easy.  The less time it takes for enemies to die, the less time it should take for shields to recharge, otherwise players are too vulnerable all the time.  This is why I find it a little backwards that Ce has the longest rates of any Halo game, though Ce has other unique things going for it too.  The long recharge is one of the few things I find questionable about it's design.

 

2.  The playercount it's designed around. I think long recharge makes some sense in 1v1 or 2v2 scenarios where the victim has plenty of time and space to evade enemies, while still allowing their enemy some time to hunt them down.  I don't think it makes sense in 4v4 or larger where you're just sitting there for ten seconds while an enemy could be around any corner.

 

Edit:

If the rate is too slow, the pacing of the game suffers tremendously in that there's long periods of downtime between fights.  If it's too fast, the pacing also suffers in that no one ever dies.

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I mean, you do realize that saying "just make it right" is completely fucking useless right?

Confirmed.  Boyo wants to destroy Halo.  He wants it made wrong.  You heard it here folks. 

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What prototype ideas would you test as Power Grenades?

How about an EMP grenade that if people are close enough, chain reacts, so that a person that is not actually close enough to the initial blast could be effected because they are close enough to a person that was in the initial blast radius.  The effect would only drain shields completely, but if used correctly could be pretty situation-ally awesome.

 

OR, if Halo went back to no radar, which I think it should, a sticky type grenade that can stick to walls or enemies and provide local radar coverage from where it is stuck to the team of the thrower.   

 

 

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What prototype ideas would you test as Power Grenades?

Alright I'll call this the space grenade. It is a proximity based grenade that will 1hk anyone it directly hits or comes close to hitting. Otherwise it will turn into an area denial field that lasts around 8 seconds and causes damage to anyone that hits it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We already have seen "Power grenades" they are shit.

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How about an EMP grenade that if people are close enough, chain reacts, so that a person that is not actually close enough to the initial blast could be effected because they are close enough to a person that was in the initial blast radius.  The effect would only drain shields completely, but if used correctly could be pretty situation-ally awesome.

 

OR, if Halo went back to no radar, which I think it should, a sticky type grenade that can stick to walls or enemies and provide local radar coverage from where it is stuck to the team of the thrower.   

 

 

Marked by the drago-... I mean. What a cool and original idea :kappa:

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How about an EMP grenade that if people are close enough, chain reacts, so that a person that is not actually close enough to the initial blast could be effected because they are close enough to a person that was in the initial blast radius. The effect would only drain shields completely, but if used correctly could be pretty situation-ally awesome.

 

So essentially the Wunderwaffe from CoD zombies? I'm down with that.

 

See how he shoots at the first enemy but the second gets linked by electricity?

 

Wunderwaffe_DG-2_effect_on_zombies_WaW.p

 

if Halo went back to no radar, which I think it should, a sticky type grenade that can stick to walls or enemies and provide local radar coverage from where it is stuck to the team of the thrower.

 

Once again, a decent idea. I would like if Halo treated radar in multiplayer like more of a "power item" and less of a base trait. Plus you get to feel all Splinter Celly.

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"Just make the game good" = VALUABLE FEEDBACK

 

Why not, just as a thought exercise, take both examples to their extremes then compare the pros and cons of those exaggerated examples. This may give you insight into what you truely believe.

 

I mean, you do realize that saying "just make it right" is completely fucking useless right?

Haha, you do realize I was fucking with you right?

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