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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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 unleashing a long tubular blast out from whatever surface it was placed on.

I know it's been asked before, but why does this sound dirty?

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Since when did this:

 

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Become prettier than this:

 

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Do you not SEE how the inflection of the light rays from the ceiling are beautifully blinding?

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I think Damnation is the prettiest map out of the trilogy followed by Cold Storage.

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I think Damnation is the prettiest map out of the trilogy followed by Cold Storage.

 

Valhalla and Sanctuary are IMO.

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How about a BTB map that features a remote control Sentinel Enforcer. A "Command Center" must be first be captured to gain access to this RC vehicle. Once this location is secured (similar to capturing a base in Dominion), one team member can access a terminal that allows him to remotely operate the Sentinel Enforcer. He looks though its eyes and fights with its weapons.

 

The operator is vulnerable since he can't see, move, or defend himself. His teammates must protect him. Their reward for protecting their AFK teammate is the addition of a Sentinel Enforcer to their team.

 

Having "mini-objectives", even in slayer gametypes, creates a deeper meta game. Much like controlling vehicles or power weapons, controlling the Command Center/Sentinel Enforcer is a key element of tilting the odds in your favor.

I feel like each Warzone map should have a unique gimmick that makes its gameplay totally different from anything else in the game, and this would be a pretty decent one.

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Epitaph / Guardian are probably the best looking Halo maps I think.

In my honest opinion, I think Halo 3 has the best looking maps in the series. They're all clean looking and visually distinctive. Just enough details to give each map a life of their own. Say what you will about the overall design, but the visuals were nailed across the board. Neither Bungie nor 343 has come close to emulating it's distinctive visual style since.
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I've had this idea for a while. It's a straight ripoff from Splinter Cell Chaos Theory (imo tied for best 2v2 game of all time with CE). That game had certain routes in the map that were extremely advantageous, it required both players to access by using a co-op jump. Both players had to be under the jump, and the animation was lengthy so there was definitely trade off, but the shortcuts or position they allowed could make the Mercs' lives hell if they weren't ready for it. I think there's room for that in Halo.

 

Teach people how to jump off their teammate's head in a tutorial, and design alternate pathing into the maps that rewarded it. Devs would be wise to highlight these portions of the map so players learned to spot them easier. It could even be a toggleable UI option (highlight co op jumps on/off).

 

Also, IF AND ONLY IF health packs come back, make these jumps accessible with a grenade jump as well.

 

As an example off the top of my head, I'm thinking of blue room to clock room or to top white on Exhibit from H1.5 or a map more people have played, elbow to green balcony on Damnation. I think itd be so cool to have some alternate, high reward pathing purposely designed into the map that cost something to use. @@MultiLockOn, @@Teapot.

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I've had this idea for a while. It's a straight ripoff from Splinter Cell Chaos Theory (imo tied for best 2v2 game of all time with CE). That game had certain routes in the map that were extremely advantageous, it required both players to access by using a co-op jump. Both players had to be under the jump, and the animation was lengthy so there was definitely trade off, but the shortcuts or position they allowed could make the Mercs' lives hell if they weren't ready for it. I think there's room for that in Halo.

 

Teach people how to jump off their teammate's head in a tutorial, and design alternate pathing into the maps that rewarded it. Devs would be wise to highlight these portions of the map so players learned to spot them easier. It could even be a toggleable UI option (highlight co op jumps on/off).

 

Also, IF AND ONLY IF health packs come back, make these jumps accessible with a grenade jump as well.

 

As an example off the top of my head, I'm thinking of blue room to clock room or to top white on Exhibit from H1.5 or a map more people have played, elbow to green balcony on Damnation. I think itd be so cool to have some alternate, high reward pathing that cost something to use. @@MultiLockOn, @@Teapot.

 

I don't mind stuff like that for high level play, I love it in fact.  But I'd never design a core balancing path around the need for buddy jumps or butterfly jumping or whatever it was called in H2.  When it happens and it works, it's awesome though.  It's almost one of those things that you really don't even need to design around it just sort of happens.  And when it does happen, it's awesome.

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I don't mind stuff like that for high level play, I love it in fact. But I'd never design a core balancing path around the need for buddy jumps or butterfly jumping or whatever it was called in H2. When it happens and it works, it's awesome though. It's almost one of those things that you really don't even need to design around it just sort of happens. And when it does happen, it's awesome.

The key would be to allow the map to play completely fine even if it never gets used. I think this is a simple enough concept that even low skilled players could comfortably adopt and be excited to use. And the jumps that would be highlighted would not be the butterfly jumps that require the bottom man to jump too. Just a simple "you stand here. Okay now you jump on his head."

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The key would be to allow the map to play completely fine even if it never gets used. I think this is a simple enough concept that even low skilled players could comfortably adopt and be excited to use. And the jumps that would be highlighted would not be the butterfly jumps that require the bottom man to jump too. Just a simple "you stand here. Okay now you jump on his head."

 

Well then yeah there's nothing wrong with that.  Like I said, if I went out of my way to look for things like that I'm sure I could find them in quite a few forge maps because people tend to scale verticality within scope of player abilities.  I've never given it the thought to make it something intentional though.

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I've always wondered why there wasn't any type of interest expanding from Halo Reach with this and integrating a multiplayer component to it.

 

 

This would be a bad ass game mode and that's word to Star Fox.

 

I wholeheartedly wish I could work on some design work for Halo at times (I definitely have the programming ability, I'm sure of it) because I have these types of ideas all the time and I wish they would stop trying to re-invent the recipe that already existed and worked, but yet, expand on the universe in which it exists.

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Well then yeah there's nothing wrong with that.  Like I said, if I went out of my way to look for things like that I'm sure I could find them in quite a few forge maps because people tend to scale verticality within scope of player abilities.  I've never given it the thought to make it something intentional though.

I think it has loads of potential. Having a 3rd route into a room from a more advantageous position, but is only accessible with the help of a teammate or by grenading yourself? I think it has tons of potential, especially in room-based maps.

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I feel like each Warzone map should have a unique gimmick that makes its gameplay totally different from anything else in the game, and this would be a pretty decent one.

How about Spartans having to destroy an Elite controlled Scarab as the final phase in an Invasion match.

 

Treat the Scarab like the Elephant from Sandtrap. Give it spawn points, turrets, make it driveable.

 

Every Invasion match should be like a mini campaign. It begins with the Spartans establishing a beach head and ends with the Elites pushed back to their last stronghold, the Scarab.

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How about Spartans having to destroy an Elite controlled Scarab as the final phase in an Invasion match.

 

Treat the Scarab like the Elephant from Sandtrap. Give it spawn points, turrets, make it driveable.

 

Every Invasion match should be like a mini campaign. It begins with the Spartans establishing a beach head and ends with the Elites pushed back to their last stronghold, the Scarab.

 

I feel like that would be incredibly difficult to implement, and its doubtful that the actual gameplay on the Scarab itself would even be fun. If the play space is anything like H2 or H3, I think it'd be an annoying place to fight people, much like the armories are now in H5.  

 

Also, how would you get on it? Would you need to land on it from above like in H2? This would be suuuuper tough to design a map around, and it would have tons of cheese potential from people staying put above the Scarab and shooting down at the people on it, forcing them to camp under cover which would create frustrating gameplay for both sides.

 

Or would you be able to cripple the Scarab like in H3? This presents its own set of problems. How feasible is it to cripple the Scarab? That's an extremely fine line of difficulty to draw if you want to make it fun for both sides. Does it require specific tools to bring down? Sucks for you if you don't have them. If not, if anything can bring it down, it sounds like it'd be frustrating as hell to actually drive if you're getting crippled too easily. Now picturing defending the Scarab as a non-driver. Are you getting pinged from everywhere and forced to hide inside constantly? How viable is it to repel boarders? This seems like very difficult map design to keep balanced for both sides, whereas it's far easier in campaign where you don't have to worry about how much fun the Covenant are having.

 

What's it like to drive it? Clunky as shit, I'd imagine. What's it like to fire it? Another fine line to balance. Too strong/easy and everyone bitches about it and the defenders betray each other over who gets the free kills. Too hard and no one wants to drive it. What is the defender's goal in driving it? To just keep it alive? To get it from A to B? That will drastically effect how the map is designed around the Scarab.

 

And don't forget, all of that is for ONE map. I think there's a reason it hasn't been done in the 13 years since we first saw a Scarab.  If Halo ever goes 32v32 and goes full-on Battlefield then it has a fighting chance, but man, barring that it's an extremely tough sell.

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I think it has loads of potential. Having a 3rd route into a room from a more advantageous position, but is only accessible with the help of a teammate or by grenading yourself? I think it has tons of potential, especially in room-based maps.

I feel like the possibilities for this would keep on increasing if future Halo games had classic movement, with the level of coordination teams have these days. It's always cool to see players boost each other up, like the ones to Ring 2 on Sanc and BR2 on Lockout. But I don't see that happening as long as there are other ways to do those jumps with less risk/coordination. I remember watching some pro player in H2A try to do the jump to Hut from flag side at least 3-4 times consecutively. It just shows what your game is made of when experienced players make those little mistakes under pressure. I see it all the time in some really common jumps during high-level Quake duels and can only imagine how nonexistent it would be if Quake Champions had clamber.

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@@Boyo, I'm sitting here trying to think of a way to make the Scarab work. I think it's best chance would actually be to put the Elites on offense, and make it the second to last phase of an Invasion/Rush style gametype. I'm picturing the 3rd level of Halo 2, where it's marching through the city streets, and I feel like that could actually work for one phase of an Invasion map. Have the Scarab travel down a central, wide road, and provide two alternate roads for flanking the Scarab, one on each side of it, as well as some interior paths for infantry to flank the side streets. Give the defending Spartans some rockets, gauss hogs and scorpions to try to focus fire a leg of the Scarab before it reaches it's "firing position" and blows open the door to the next phase. You would also need to give the attacking Elites some ghosts and wraiths to ward off the Spartan attack on their Scarab. If the humans can get inside and destroy the Scarab core, the game ends and they win.

 

-This gives the driver the structure he needs to have a purpose and a legitimate shot at actually killing people with it (however the griefing potential is huge and it might be best to put the Scarab on autopilot and just allow a player to control its gun).

-It gives the Spartans a clear goal and the sense of urgency they need to make it feel like it matters

-It shakes up the offense/defense dynamic by having the defenders need to do something aggressive to win.

-Losing all your tools to cripple the Scarab only costs you the phase, not the match like it would if it were the final phase

-This scenario would actually be fun to repel boarders because you have the high ground, and the time-based A to B scenario would make times where the Scarab is crippled have a heightened sense of importance.

-Giving the Elites alternate vehicles to defend the Scarab doesn't confine the team to the Scarab and make it feel like a death trap, but also makes the guys who do choose to stay on it feel important because they are the last line of defense. This aspect reminds me of that BF4 mode that they added in the Naval Strike expansion.

 

And lastly and certainly most importantly, it makes lore sense.

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@@Hard Way

 

The Defenders' goal is to keep the Scarab alive until time runs out, at which point a whole fleet of AI Banshees would arrive and wreck the Spartans, ending the match with a Defender win.

 

I imagine that as each phase progresses, AI Marines establish outposts behind the Spartans. When Spartans win the first phase, everyone's spawn points get adjusted forward and a bunch of AI Marines with ammo crates, weapons and vehicles appear in the first phase location. This keeps pushing the fighting forward, gives Spartans a place to regroup if necessary, and mount an effective attack. Since they are fighting an uphill battle, these "safe zones" prevent the Elites from pushing the Spartans in a way that allows spawn camping.

 

With that said, if the Spartans destroy the Scarab, the AI Marines would all move up and it would basically become a role reversal of the last level in Halo Reach for the Elites.

 

You could get by with as little as 3 Elites controlling the Scarab, two side turrets and the driver/main gunner. I think 12v12 would still be enough for an interesting Scarab battle. The rest of the Elites could get off the Scarab and go for other weapons/vehicles on the map. Even though the Scarab is the objective and would play a large part in the final phase, fighting would still be occuring all over the map (that phase of the map I mean).

 

What's it like to drive? I would say it should probably handle like a really big Wraith.

 

The Scarab should have multiple methods of entry for the Spartans, flying an aerial vehicle over and jumping off, bringing the legs down and hopping on, riding a Mongoose off a ramp and landing on it. The geometry of the map could even be designed in a way that offers some natural paths onto the Scarab if it is in a specific location (next to a hill that the Spartans can jump on from, near a man cannon that can shoot them on).

 

Edit: Oh I like what you're saying about having it move through a city, making it easier to board in close quarters with buildings and such around it. I would definitely put it on auto pilot if you want to drive it through a city. I also like the idea of the Scarab blowing open the entrance to the next phase, would be exciting. I also like the reversal with the defenders needing to push instead of the attackers because if they sit back and do nothing the Scarab will walk itself to the next phase. Lots of good ideas there.

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Just at a surface level inspection I think I'm gonna side with hard way and say it's better as an offensive tool than defensive

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Just at a surface level inspection I think I'm gonna side with hard way and say it's better as an offensive tool than defensive

Then what do you think about having vehicles spawn on the Scarab itself? Have a Banshee spawn in a bay near the top (open but protected by a shield door) and have two Ghosts in the bottom interior lobby. Entering a Ghost actives some trap door or ramp or something that lets you drive it down onto the ground below.

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@@Boyo, I'm sitting here trying to think of a way to make the Scarab work. I think it's best chance would actually be to put the Elites on offense, and make it the second to last phase of an Invasion/Rush style gametype. I'm picturing the 3rd level of Halo 2, where it's marching through the city streets, and I feel like that could actually work for one phase of an Invasion map. Have the Scarab travel down a central, wide road, and provide two alternate roads for flanking the Scarab, one on each side of it, as well as some interior paths for infantry to flank the side streets. Give the defending Spartans some rockets, gauss hogs and scorpions to try to focus fire a leg of the Scarab before it reaches it's "firing position" and blows open the door to the next phase. You would also need to give the attacking Elites some ghosts and wraiths to ward off the Spartan attack on their Scarab. If the humans can get inside and destroy the Scarab core, the game ends and they win.

 

-This gives the driver the structure he needs to have a purpose and a legitimate shot at actually killing people with it (however the griefing potential is huge and it might be best to put the Scarab on autopilot and just allow a player to control its gun).

-It gives the Spartans a clear goal and the sense of urgency they need to make it feel like it matters

-It shakes up the offense/defense dynamic by having the defenders need to do something aggressive to win.

-Losing all your tools to cripple the Scarab only costs you the phase, not the match like it would if it were the final phase

-This scenario would actually be fun to repel boarders because you have the high ground, and the time-based A to B scenario would make times where the Scarab is crippled have a heightened sense of importance.

-Giving the Elites alternate vehicles to defend the Scarab doesn't confine the team to the Scarab and make it feel like a death trap, but also makes the guys who do choose to stay on it feel important because they are the last line of defense. This aspect reminds me of that BF4 mode that they added in the Naval Strike expansion.

 

And lastly and certainly most importantly, it makes lore sense.

This legitimately sounds awesome. The offensive Scarab would definitely be best and it kinda reminds me of the AT-ATs on Hoth in classic Star Wars Battlefront games (not the EA crap).

 

Just imagine if that music was playing too lol. Mjolnir Mix from H2A (I forget what the OG H2 track is called).

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