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CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Boyo your ideas used to be mildly interesting and at least provoked some discussion, but this remote rocket is a complete disaster, can you please just let it go. 343 is currently (somehow) making the playlists even worse can we talk about that.

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@@Basu

 

Sure. I guess my lifelong dream of becoming Bullet Bill will have to wait.

 

200px-BulletBillMK8.png

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What if nailing a "perfect" granted you a faster reload, or a gain in shields? In the context of an actual difficult utility weapon

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What if nailing a "perfect" granted you a faster reload, or a gain in shields? In the context of an actual difficult utility weapon

Not a terrible idea. Similar to an active reload from gears. Do something skillful, get a reward.

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Not a terrible idea. Similar to an active reload from gears. Do something skillful, get a reward.

Yes exactly. It would reward individual skill in particular. Imagine in H5, I flank two players of similar skill and I start putting shots into one of them. In a normal scenario, the best I could do is a one-for-one trade. Why? Because two magnums are always better than one.

 

But if I perfect the first guy and gain half my shields back, I'd actually have a chance to clutch in that scenario.

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Yes exactly. It would reward individual skill in particular. Imagine in H5, I flank two players of similar skill and I start putting shots into one of them. In a normal scenario, the best I could do is a one-for-one trade. Why? Because two magnums are always better than one.

But if I perfect the first guy and gain half my shields back, I'd actually have a chance to clutch in that scenario.

Gaining shields back for killing an enemy with the utility weapon is a step too far.

 

I have thought that killing an enemy should immediately recharge your Thruster so you have a better chance against the second enemy.

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Gaining shields back for killing an enemy with the utility weapon is a step too far.

 

I have thought that killing an enemy should immediately recharge your Thruster so you have a better chance against the second enemy.

In a game that's already extremely focused on team shooting, is it really a step too far? I think it would create some interesting plays.

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I have thought that killing an enemy should immediately recharge your Thruster so you have a better chance against the second enemy.

 

Makes it kinda random/frustrating though if a teammate unexpectedly steals your kill and you get punished for it. This stuff works in Overwatch, because I can do literally one HP damage to an enemy and it will count as a kill. Maybe you have to change it to getting a kill or getting an assist gives you instant thrust recharge.

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In a game that's already extremely focused on team shooting, is it really a step too far? I think it would create some interesting plays.

It adds too much perceived randomness. Shield recharge delay is a constant (or should be without the stupid sprint delay mechanic). Shield recharge rate is a constant. These constants allow players to accurately predict how much shields their enemy has.

 

You suddenly gaining half a shield layer for stealing a teammate's kill with one shot makes the enemy who is emptying a clip into you think "wtf is going on, why won't this guy die".

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It adds too much perceived randomness. Shield recharge delay is a constant (or should be without the stupid sprint delay mechanic). Shield recharge rate is a constant. These constants allow players to accurately predict how much shields their enemy has.

 

You suddenly gaining half a shield layer for stealing a teammate's kill with one shot makes the enemy who is emptying a clip into you think "wtf is going on, why won't this guy die".

No my idea was you get a shield gain for getting a perfect kill, not any kill. This would allow an individual to stand a chance in a 1v2 scenario. You do have a point about predicting shields though. There would be a lack of clarity.

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No my idea was you get a shield gain for getting a perfect kill, not any kill. This would allow an individual to stand a chance in a 1v2 scenario. You do have a point about predicting shields though. There would be a lack of clarity.

Obligatory "wouldn't be a problem if the utility weapon killed fast enough"  comment

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Obligatory "wouldn't be a problem if the utility weapon killed fast enough" comment

Right. I doubt even one person at 343 recognizes the importance of fast kill times in Halo. It's sad really.

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Your point was "it is difficult for me to strafe while controlling a remote Rocket". My rebuttal was asking you if you strafed during laser guided rockets. My guess would be no, you do not, because you need to keep a line of sight on the projectile in order to accurately steer it with your reticle placement.

 

Late but.... OF COURSE you strafe when you are trying to be ultra-precise.  Console input is imperfect.  the best way to make minute adjustments is by strafing. If you don't use your strafe to aim (thats ALL aiming) you are going to get shat on.

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I played that for a long time.  Switched back to BJ this week.  Was finding i couldn't get the in-between-shots re-scope in mid battle with helljumper. Not sure which one i like more.  Its my new crisis

 

I found it much easier to get back in scope since I don't have to "click" the stick while I'm aiming lol. There will be instances where I just hold the trigger down and the scope will activate as soon as the descope buffer goes away, and there's other times where I just memorize the time it takes until I can scope again. That was my main reasoning behind scoping with LT, not having to click the stick when aiming is just so beneficial (in my opinion of course lol).

 

Do you enjoy giving up your ability to gun grenade and melee while you remotely steer your slow moving Rocket?

 

What? You make it seem like you're steering this rocket for 30 seconds lol. And on top of that, you can still move around and go about your business.

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I found it much easier to get back in scope since I don't have to "click" the stick while I'm aiming lol. There will be instances where I just hold the trigger down and the scope will activate as soon as the descope buffer goes away, and there's other times where I just memorize the time it takes until I can scope again. That was my main reasoning behind scoping with LT, not having to click the stick when aiming is just so beneficial (in my opinion of course lol).

 

Yeah, i think i pull the trigger too hard lol.  Rotates the entire controller up.  Its so much easier to quickscope with sniper on Helljumper though...

 

Luckily switching between those 2 is pretty straightforward so if i decide to switch back i wont want to punch myself in the face for a week haha

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Do you enjoy giving up your ability to gun grenade and melee while you remotely steer your slow moving Rocket?

 

Do you enjoy not understanding the nuance of game design and having T R A D E O F F S for power weapons?

 

 

 

So you want the Rocket to hit the piece of cover that the enemy was hiding behind, not the enemy himself? Do you know about some new kind of laser that can see through rocks or should aim assist just take over and deliver your Rocket where you think it should go? 

 

What if the cover is wider than the distance of the rocket's splash damage? You are untouchable? 

 

oh..okay.. never mind. reading through the rest of this i see you've already answered my question

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What? You make it seem like you're steering this rocket for 30 seconds lol. And on top of that, you can still move around and go about your business.

Rockets move ridiculously fast in newer Halo games. I would make them travel slower. And yes, on an open air BTB map, you could be flying the Rocket for a good 15 seconds or so. I'm just kinda baffled as to why you guys are so adamant about not wanting to be able to fight or move or see while the Rocket is in the air. I think there are very few times when your weapon should go down. Driving a vehicle, manning a turret, and carrying an objective are pretty much the only times your gun shouldn't be up and able to fire.

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Rockets move ridiculously fast in newer Halo games. I would make them travel slower. And yes, on an open air BTB map, you could be flying the Rocket for a good 15 seconds or so. I'm just kinda baffled as to why you guys are so adamant about not wanting to be able to fight or move or see while the Rocket is in the air. I think there are very few times when your weapon should go down. Driving a vehicle, manning a turret, and carrying an objective are pretty much the only times your gun shouldn't be up and able to fire.

 

The ad-victoriam moves slow, in relation to let's say, bullets, but there is literally NO WAY you're controlling a rocket for 15 seconds; that is absurd man lol. They move MUCH faster than that. You would need to have a map the size of March on Stormbreak with absolutely no buildings, obstacles, etc. in the way for a rocket to be travelling that long. You may have the rocket out for at most 3-4 seconds. You can move around perfectly fine when you're controlling the rocket, I don't see why you would advise that you lose full functionality of your left hand in order to do something so simple "as aiming".

 

You can still jump, thrust, strafe, etc. while the victoriam rocket is out, so I don't understand what you're advocating for..

 

The aiming is bad enough with the Right Analog, I would HATE to see how shitty the aiming would be with the D-Pad.

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Also

 

Driving a vehicle, manning a turret, and carrying an objective are pretty much the only times your gun shouldn't be up and able to fire.

 

You literally JUST fired a rocket, I don't understand... Are you advocating that you should be able to mindlessly fire Fly-By-Wire rockets in an endless stream? I don't understand the logic here. That doesn't even make sense lol.

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Rockets move ridiculously fast in newer Halo games. I would make them travel slower. And yes, on an open air BTB map, you could be flying the Rocket for a good 15 seconds or so. I'm just kinda baffled as to why you guys are so adamant about not wanting to be able to fight or move or see while the Rocket is in the air. I think there are very few times when your weapon should go down. Driving a vehicle, manning a turret, and carrying an objective are pretty much the only times your gun shouldn't be up and able to fire.

I understand the desire to be able to move and shoot at the same time, but what you are proposing is simply not practical. For a remote control rocket, you have already done shot your rocket. You don't need to still be able to move with that level of precision on the rocket. Even then, the real issue is that we are adamant against overcomplicated controls. I absolutely hate being forced to claw, and with your suggestion I would need to be an octopus to pull this off.

 

There is a reason that countless games make you unable to move while using a remote control rocket. Because it simplifies the controls and streamlines the system. I understand not wanting Halo to copy other games, but intuitive controls are never a bad thing.

 

You either don't move with a remote control rocket, or you use a laser guided system like the already in-game Ad Victorian. There is no in-between.

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Rockets move ridiculously fast in newer Halo games. ...

Go fire a rocket in C.E. Boyo and compare it to "newer Halo games".  

Sometimes I think you have actually never played it. 

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Rockets move ridiculously fast in newer Halo games. I would make them travel slower. And yes, on an open air BTB map, you could be flying the Rocket for a good 15 seconds or so. I'm just kinda baffled as to why you guys are so adamant about not wanting to be able to fight or move or see while the Rocket is in the air. I think there are very few times when your weapon should go down. Driving a vehicle, manning a turret, and carrying an objective are pretty much the only times your gun shouldn't be up and able to fire.

The Ad-Victorian already allows your to control rockets while they are in the air. This could easily be applied to a slower moving rocket without adding a bunch of nonsense to the UI or the control scheme.

 

The only thing this doesn't allow, that your solution does (albeit so clumsily that it would be useless), is for the player to aim a second weapon while the rocket is in flight. This could be remedied easily, by letting players pause/resume control of rockets by switching weapons from/to the launcher.

 

This would allow you to do literally everything you seem to want it to do, without limiting strafe, forcing users to use their face to press buttons or requiring PiP (which would clutter the UI and waste processing power so that a single weapon can render a second scene.)

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Rockets move ridiculously fast in newer Halo games. I would make them travel slower. And yes, on an open air BTB map, you could be flying the Rocket for a good 15 seconds or so. I'm just kinda baffled as to why you guys are so adamant about not wanting to be able to fight or move or see while the Rocket is in the air. I think there are very few times when your weapon should go down. Driving a vehicle, manning a turret, and carrying an objective are pretty much the only times your gun shouldn't be up and able to fire.

1. False.

 

2. Compared to what? https://youtu.be/ee4bfLM_540?t=1m47s

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@deucey You are not aiming with the D-pad, you are steering, like a car. You could steer a car with a d-pad right?

 

@@MhunterjrdanHow would splitscreen clutter the UI? Do you just mean in the obvious sense that there is now another view on screen?

 

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I appreciate it.

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@deucey You are not aiming with the D-pad, you are steering, like a car. You could steer a car with a d-pad right?

 

@@Mhunterjr How would splitscreen clutter the UI? Do you just mean in the obvious sense that there is now another view on screen?

 

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I appreciate it.

 

Again, you keep repeating these points as if we're incapable of understanding that yes, we know that you can physically steer it with the D-Pad. What everyone has been saying, that we also keep repeating, is that there are better ways to "steer" with it. I.e. the right analog stick.

 

And yes, that's exactly what he meant by clutter the UI. You have an entirely new screen to control something you just shot and you can physically see. The rockets don't move anywhere near slow enough to the point where you would need another camera on your screen (PiP) to see where it's going. When SMARTAN linked his example as to how they do it in Metal Gear Solid (and they've done this in the past like the MGS2 - Nikita Missile Launcher) your camera switches to the rocket itself, but once again, you aim it with the preferred and better analog stick. Not the D-Pad. But you also have to note in that example, that those projectiles move at almost a third of the speed that a rocket in any of the Halo games travel.

 

The PiP screen would literally flash on your screen for almost a fraction of a second majority of the time. It's unnecessary and a complete distraction.

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