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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Good thing Halo is rated T now :kappa: .

 

 

Besides the ones that upped FPS and resolution, not a single update to youtube has been for the better. Downhill since 07.

*Downhill since 09

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'09 must be when Halo 3 came out.

gosh darn you halo 3 hater! I will grab my pitchforks and smear it with oil and ignite it with my fury and march down to your dwelling and I will show you my ultimate wrath!

PAH!

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'09 must be when Halo 3 came out.

I hope you're not criticizing ODST.

 

EDIT: Oh he meant YT, not Halo. Apparently I can't read.

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Gaming montages are fine, and can still be monetized. Cod players were freaking out but fwiz confirmed it

 

 

YouTube is fucking things up though.

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Gaming montages are fine, and can still be monetized. Cod players were freaking out but fwiz confirmed it

 

 

YouTube is fucking things up though.

YouTube in 2k17 LUL

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I think we've all heard or used the phrase "30 seconds of fun" in relation to Halo's core gameplay loop, a simple formula that makes the game endlessly replayable. But when digging up some research I found that Bungie's meaning was a little different from ours. https://www.engadget.com/2011/07/14/half-minute-halo-an-interview-with-jaime-griesemer/

 

Here is an interesting quote from former Bungie designer Jaime Griesemer regarding fan usage of "30 seconds of fun."

"but the worst part is, everyone uses it to mean exactly the opposite of what I meant when I said it! They use it to say you only need 30 seconds of fun, and if you repeat something that is fun for 30 seconds over and over you have a game like Halo. There was a whole second half of the quote that got cut out of the Vidoc [video documentary] where I talked about taking that 30 seconds of fun and playing it in different environments, with different weapons, different vehicles, against different enemies, against different combinations of enemies, sometimes against enemies that are fighting each other. No 30 second stretch of Halo is ever repeated; the missions are constantly changing the context on you."

Obviously this is talking about the campaign, but I think we often use the phrase to describe classic multiplayer. Could this have motivated Halo 5's "weapon upgrade" gameplay, where you are constantly expected to pick up new weapons to change up the next 30 seconds? Is our definition really that different from Griesemer's, and regardless is 343's implementation faithful to Bungie's intention?

 

The article also talks about the proportional difficulty of the campaign AI, which might interesting to think about in light of 343's Prometheans. I don't agree with all of Griesemer's ideas or decisions, but he has some good quotes.

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His clarification is honestly fairly consistent with my perception of the quote. I've never really thought about it in relation to anything but the campaign, but it applies to a lot of Bungie's approach to multiplayer as well. Just look at how chaotic even "classic" Halo games become outside of competitive settings and precision starts. They pretty clearly intended players to be running around picking up various combinations of weapons (hence the addition of duel wield), grabbing equipment, getting into vehicles. All kinds of different random scenarios. I find that sort of thing compelling in single player/cooperative settings, where it was a strength. Just not so much in PvP.

 

The competitive vision of Halo is just a carry over from Pro gametypes for CE, but I think it's fairly clear that the general direction at Bungie tended overwhelmingly towards the casual clusterfuck side of Halo rather than "30 seconds of precision gun fights." And the reason that worked was that Halo was an extremely customizable platform and Bungie just let competitive settings be their own thing.

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Obviously this is talking about the campaign, but I think we often use the phrase to describe classic multiplayer. Could this have motivated Halo 5's "weapon upgrade" gameplay, where you are constantly expected to pick up new weapons to change up the next 30 seconds? Is our definition really that different from Griesemer's, and regardless is 343's implementation faithful to Bungie's intention?

 

In campaign I found myself constantly using the same weapons over and over, so I feel like they failed in that regard.

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In campaign I found myself constantly using the same weapons over and over, so I feel like they failed in that regard.

You don't represent the majority of the halo fan base, so shut up!

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I don't understand how people play FFA on this game. Just isn't fun and just doesn't work

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Imagine a Halo game with the aesthetics of Prey (which is super underrated, imo) Talk about art design.  :walshy:

14zVpyKN-jF0Je3Jw_UUPeGmBKeLJlt_emg5K5zU

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Imagine a Halo game with the aesthetics of Prey (which is super underrated, imo) Talk about art design.  :walshy:

14zVpyKN-jF0Je3Jw_UUPeGmBKeLJlt_emg5K5zU

I think 80% sums it up pretty well actually.

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Imagine a Halo game with the aesthetics of Prey (which is super underrated, imo) Talk about art design.  :walshy:

Prey is the best SP game I've played in a very long time. 

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it's been barely a year since doom

 

Actually, its been almost 24   :glasses:

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The sales tax on the car I just bought is $343

 

Coincidence?

 

I'd return it before you end up sprinting.

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His clarification is honestly fairly consistent with my perception of the quote. I've never really thought about it in relation to anything but the campaign, but it applies to a lot of Bungie's approach to multiplayer as well. Just look at how chaotic even "classic" Halo games become outside of competitive settings and precision starts. They pretty clearly intended players to be running around picking up various combinations of weapons (hence the addition of duel wield), grabbing equipment, getting into vehicles. All kinds of different random scenarios. I find that sort of thing compelling in single player/cooperative settings, where it was a strength. Just not so much in PvP.

 

The competitive vision of Halo is just a carry over from Pro gametypes for CE, but I think it's fairly clear that the general direction at Bungie tended overwhelmingly towards the casual clusterfuck side of Halo rather than "30 seconds of precision gun fights." And the reason that worked was that Halo was an extremely customizable platform and Bungie just let competitive settings be their own thing.

When did requiring the skill to control a myriad of fast respawning weapons become uncompetitive?

 

Having to set up and control larger number of faster spawning weapons demands way more control more frequently would demand more skill and teamwork.

 

If a pick up based shooter has 2/3 major pick ups on 2/3 minute timers and having utility weapon fights for 80-90%, that's a failure to the comeptitive settings of a pick up based shooter.

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When did requiring the skill to control a myriad of fast respawning weapons become uncompetitive?

 

Having to set up and control larger number of faster spawning weapons demands way more control more frequently would demand more skill and teamwork.

 

If a pick up based shooter has 2/3 major pick ups on 2/3 minute timers and having utility weapon fights for 80-90%, that's a failure to the comeptitive settings of a pick up based shooter.

 

To a degree yes, but at a certain point (a.k.a. default H2/3 settings or H5's maps that are literally swimming in weapons) it becomes a mess. You also have to keep in mind that there are only 8 players on the map usually, so if there are too many weapons spawning frequently these players can grab weapons uncontested, basically creating a BTB Heavies meta.

 

So yes, CE's OS/Camo/Sniper/Rockets gameplay is better than H2's "maybe a sniper and a sword on the map" gameplay, but both are vastly superior to H5's "looks like I just spawned next to a 0.9s kill time bullet hose that gives me a free killing spree" gameplay.

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To a degree yes, but at a certain point (a.k.a. default H2/3 settings or H5's maps that are literally swimming in weapons) it becomes a mess. You also have to keep in mind that there are only 8 players on the map usually, so if there are too many weapons spawning frequently these players can grab weapons uncontested, basically creating a BTB Heavies meta.

 

So yes, CE's OS/Camo/Sniper/Rockets gameplay is better than H2's "maybe a sniper and a sword on the map" gameplay, but both are vastly superior to H5's "looks like I just spawned next to a 0.9s kill time bullet hose that gives me a free killing spree" gameplay.

The competitive vision of Halo is just a carry over from Pro gametypes for CE, but I think it's fairly clear that the general direction at Bungie tended overwhelmingly towards the casual clusterfuck side of Halo rather than "30 seconds of precision gun fights." And the reason that worked was that Halo was an extremely customizable platform and Bungie just let competitive settings be their own thing.

This is the part I am was focusing on. I am well aware of the H5 sandbox's failures, and the problems with other sandboxes.

 

But the idea that Halo, even at a competitive level, should be 90% the precision utility weapon with 10% pick ups is and anything else is chaotic and a clusterfuck is closeminded and wrong.

 

There should be interaction with the rest of the sandbox far more regularly. Constantly even. 1 weapon every two/three minutes isn't good enough.

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This is the part I am was focusing on. I am well aware of the H5 sandbox's failures, and the problems with other sandboxes.

 

But the idea that Halo, even at a competitive level, should be 90% the precision utility weapon with 10% pick ups is and anything else is chaotic and a clusterfuck is closeminded and wrong.

 

There should be interaction with the rest of the sandbox far more regularly. Constantly even. 1 weapon every two/three minutes isn't good enough.

 

When we have a Halo game with a decent utility weapon, actual niche weapons with depth, and ideally a spawn system that isn't incredibly simplistic, we can have that discussion. The problem is that literally only one such Halo game exists. That's not "closed-minded." It's reality. I'm sorry that you don't like that people enjoy a gun skill focus in competitive Halo, but that's the way it is.

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When we have a Halo game with a decent utility weapon, actual niche weapons with depth, and ideally a spawn system that isn't incredibly simplistic, we can have that discussion. The problem is that literally only one such Halo game exists. That's not "closed-minded." It's reality. I'm sorry that you don't like that people enjoy a gun skill focus in competitive Halo, but that's the way it is.

Because wanting a pick up based game means I don't enjoy focus on gun skill.

 

If we want to be really realistic, nothing in Halo 5 is truly skillful, not even the pistol.

 

So if we make it kill quickly, without altering the power weapons TTK/Lethality, then it can be as powerful as the power weapons in it's all purpose nature, which lets it stand up to them, so we can afford that little extra focus on pick up control.

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