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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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MFW when I play a 20 minute BTB game and only get 1300+ XP, but playing an 11 minute Infection game gets 5K XP. :wutface:

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MFW when I play a 20 minute BTB game and only get 1300+ XP, but playing an 11 minute Infection game gets 5K XP. :wutface:

Sounds like a bug, honestly. I know Infection got a bump when using boosts but 1300+ XP for a BTB game without boosts just shouldn't happen.

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I thought BTB had pistol starts from the updated. I was sad to see BR starts. I just quit.

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Sounds like a bug, honestly. I know Infection got a bump when using boosts but 1300+ XP for a BTB game without boosts just shouldn't happen.

Hmm, might be. I've noticed yesterday that 1328 seems to be the base amount of XP that I've been getting in BTB in 8-20 minute games with usually 50-200 added as bonuses. I was shocked at the Infection amounts.

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It's pretty easy to balance the gauss better. Give it a charge up before firing, so that the charge takes about as much time as it takes (approximately) to get a kill with the chain gun.

 

It's instant kill, but you need time the charge while tracking the player to do it.

 

Perfect, Balanced, lets move on.

 

Alternatives include making the gauss the "precision" Warthog, so it is basically a sniper on wheels. It needs a head shot to 1 hit kill and 2 body shots, low RoF.

Didn't H2A make the Gauss turret charge up before firing? I too thought that was perfect. It maintained the high damage anti-armor purpose while providing a window to counter it. Perfect.

 

 

 

Also @@Hard Way, what was wrong with the H2-H3 Banshee flips? They looked MUCH easier and more natural to track, as opposed to the momentum-out-nowhere Reach/H4/H5 Banshees. I remember playing an H2 LAN party way back and I shot a Rocket at a Banshee, the guy flipped to dodge it, and the Rocket made a hard 45 degree turn and curved to hit him anyway. Just wondering what the issue was then, not saying those Banshees were good either.

 

 

 

 

 

As for the vehicle balance discussion in general, I am opposed to just straight up removing it all, as vehicles(and sniping) are like the whole point of BTB. If I want just infantry battles, then small team gamemodes are better for that IMO.

 

However they can definitely be improved. The entirety of H5's sandbox(weapons and vehicles) could use a severe magnetism and ease of use/reward/trade/off balance.

 

I have not liked the paper mache vehicle health system that we have had since Reach, where small arms do an excessive amount of damage to vehicles from anywhere on the map (although the utility weapon has also been way too easy in the recent games anyway, but that is somewhat of a separate discussion).

 

I disagree with the implied notion that jumping into a vehicle should be an eventual death sentence. For example, a Ghost that can die to just 1 and a half mags of BR shots and a Warthog Gunner that always gets melted off despite the driver often surviving. A Mantis that can barely attack at a distance but dies a slow, painfull, and agonizing death as it gets BR'd from everywhere at once with nowhere to hide or push up. Those are NOT fun ways to use and die in vehicles. Always being terrified of a guy or two with just a BR.

 

That and getting stuck on a campaign checkpoint with low vehicle health that makes you die to 3 Plasma Pistol shots is extremely unfun as well. I think it is really lame that people want the anti-vehicle strategy to just be 'spam bullets at big and easy to hit target until it blows up'. There is no strategy to that and yes, the vehicles could also take more strategy to use themselves.

 

I am aware that in H2 and H3 you could just get away and reshield in vehicles but to be fair, infantry can do the exact same thing, something that is trademark to Halo. And the vehicle battles in those two games' campaigns were much better as well.

 

The way that you were supposed to initially counter vehicles off spawn is to shoot the very exposed driver/gunner/pilot of a vehicle, instead of outright destroying it with small arms, an ability which is reserved for heavy weapons such as Rockets, Stickies which should 1-hit all light vehicles including Warthogs and Banshees, and the Splaser. However, a lot of recent vehicles don't allow you to properly shoot the driver. Even in H2 you could snipe the hatch off of a tank then snipe the driver.

 

That and boarding/hijacking is a GREAT addition from H2 that allows infantry to take advantage of a vehicle driver's mistake, especially heavy vehicles.

 

Another option would be to make the spawning autos much better for hurting vehicles than the utility weapon, to give the autos another niche use.

 

In general I want the vehicles to be better balanced as well, but removing them would be removing a signature trait and appeal of BTB.

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@@SMARTAN 427, I typed up a whole post earlier and when I went to post, my connection didn't hold up and I lost the whole thing...

 

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on the utility doing meaningful damage to vehicles. We can go back and forth about how much health they should have, but I am 100% in favor of my utility being a threat to a vehicle.

 

To answer your question about H2/H3 banshees, the problem was a lack of viable counters, especially in H2. In H2, you could use other vehicles, the rocket launcher, or stickies. Outside of that, all you could do was chip away with SMG's when it got close enough. Your BR did fuck all to it, and same for the snipe (Team Rifles on Ascension, anyone?). No EMP on the Plasma Pistol either. And the rocket could easily be dodged with the barrel roll if they saw it coming. Twice in a row, max rate of fire. It'd dodge em both. Saw it happen WAY too many times. You had to flank it or you had no chance. And that's not even taking into account that half the time the pilot himself was the one holding rockets, and they would never respawn until he dropped them (this was the beginning, middle and end of the Coagulation meta). H2 had awful vehicle counters. There were so fucking many times where you were just fucked. There was nothing you could do, and any damage you tried to do before dying would mean nothing. Just fuck you for spawning there.

 

H3 was a little better, since it had the EMP on the PP and all the equipment, but there were still plenty of times where you were helpless against vehicles. Avalanche was like Coagulation pt 2. Get the laser and rape uncontested from the sky with the hornet. Certain spawns on Standoff left you no chance against the warthog. Or how about the chopper on the dunes on Sandbox? Remember that shit? The banshee's on Valhalla were almost impossible to kill too against an aware pilot. The missile pod was easy to dodge (and i think it even gave you a lock on warning), the range on the PP was tiny, and the AR, stickies and drainer needed the banshee to get closer than it should ever get. The warthog would have been viable if the controlling team didn't always have a laser. It was just a mess. You can get rid of all of those situations if you make the utility a threat over time instead of a laughable tickle-feather that just shows the operator where to look for his next kill.

 

If we stay on track with utility weapons doing meaningful damage to vehicles, then the debate becomes how much health should the vehicles have?  All I can do is give examples.

 

The Reach Ghost and Warthog, and the H4 Ghost were too weak against the utility. It made them unviable.

The Reach Tanks, the H4 Wraith, and the H5 Ghost, Mantis and Wraith are just about perfect imo.

The H5 Banshee and Wasp have way too much health for the lethality and evasiveness they've been given.

 

I don't share your opinion on the Mantis. I use it every game on Fracture and I dominate with it. It takes a pounding and stays alive, but it's lethality stays in check with a long TTK on the guns and a slow travel time and reload time on the missiles, and you need to charge up the missiles for any real accuracy. And the stomp is in a good place now too since the update to the Mantis. It's still really vulnerable to the PP, Laser, Railgun and Hydra, as well as a camo board. Dedicated rifle fire from the right range is enough to back the Mantis down unless he's willing to trade permanent damage for the kill. I just think that vehicle is totally fine as is.

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Favyn is that you?

 

That's Ant Man or Act Man or w/e his name is. 

 

Edit: Wait, maybe not. WTF? Sounded just like him. 

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I'm really sick and tired of watching these linked youtube videos where another Halo youtuber fails at using proper evidence to bring up their points and just botches the whole thing up.

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I'm really sick and tired of watching these linked youtube videos where another Halo youtuber fails at using proper evidence to bring up their points and just botches the whole thing up.

 

I'm kind of just tired of them in general.  Because it's always the same points I already heard back in 2015, and they're always far longer than they need to be to make those points.

 

It's not even that they're wrong, it's just that it's pretty played out by this point.

 

Off-topic the custom map with the halo hologram in that video looks really nice.  Just something that stood out to me.

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I'm really sick and tired of watching these linked youtube videos where another Halo youtuber fails at using proper evidence to bring up their points and just botches the whole thing up.

Oh look someone who talks big about the good things in H5 but never says anything about them. I'm real sick and tired of reading these posts complaining about complaining

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Think about it guys. Forge team implemented wall-running, I think this is a sign.

 

Gonna have to adapt harder than ever.

 

Wait, is this actually a thing?

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Wait, is this actually a thing?

Kind of. They added an object which lets you do that sort of thing.

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Wait, is this actually a thing?

No it's just a gravity slide object that sucks you along it

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Infantry definately need a way to counter vehicles off spawn...

 

that very dynamic is part of what made titan feel so amazing, for example.

 

I don't advocate for turning all vehicles into paper mache. Standard weapons shouldn't Neccisarily do a ton of damage- but I should be able to make myself a difficult kill... either by my shots effecting the pilots ability to navigate or the pilots ability to deal damage effectively.

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Yet again, Halo Ce did it right.  Just make it feasible for people to shoot the operators of the vehicles.

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