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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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I would help, but I value my sanity more than that armor. Besides, that armor just gives me negative vibes. The very nature of how it's earned through soulless grinding and the way players go about earning it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

Edit: More power to you guys though. I'm not bashing anyone.

 

I understand that. And some people just hate vehicles, which I get. I wanted to encourage people to try them, because they're actually pretty fun and rewarding to learn (and holy hell do we need the help).

 

However, I don't think turning on your assassinations is asking too much. It's the one we're furthest behind on, and you can get them in any mode. If someone is taking up one of our 100 spots, then they should be expected to contribute in some way.

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we want a 1-50 ranking system that isn't stupid.

1-50 is fine until you get up to mid-40s. The skill disparity between mid 40s to pro level is huge and needs to be accomodated. I like 1-50, but there needs to be a little extra system at the top.

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Don't most people here want the stupid 1-50 ranking system ??

No, we want a 1-45 followed by 5 cool randomly-chosen pictures system.

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Watched Rayciveks Halo 5 video

 

Campaign analysis was great, though I think everyone is agreed it was bad campaign, and he was retreading ground in some ways. Ultimately, Halo 5 campaign was awful, more so than 4's, which had solid direction and execution but ultimately Cheif and Cortana didn't feel like themselves, The Didact was boring and kinda of a Sith Lord wannabe, and the game felt like misunderstanding of Halo's themes and character personalities, relying solely on EU lore elements to make a well made but kinda un-Halo fan fiction sequel inspired by the Bungie Halos, where as Halo 5 feels like a blatantly shitty fan fiction that ignores alot of lore or Halos themes. In the end, Halo 3 was not supposed to have a sequel. Halo told it's story. Creating a sequel was possible, but Halo 4 felt very disconnected from anything before it, even if it's own story was actually not bad. Halo 5 failed to even manage that.

 

Arena analysis did what I expected. It assumes the fact because Halo 5 has no big massive shoehorned elements like Loadouts it is immediately more like Halo than Halo 4. Halo 5 Multiplayer is an improvement on Halo 4, but only because it actually feels designed, rather than having shoehorned elements. He talks about Halo 5's mechanics speeding up the game, which they blatantly don't, and claimed the BR, DMR etc have unique roles, they don't. I personally felt his Arena analysis was all over the place and was slightly biased, and not as objective as previous analysis he perfomed, I found myself disagreeing massively with this at best, cringing at a blatant lack of understanding at worst.

 

His warzone analysis slightly felt like an after thought but ultimately mirrored my observations on the mode, though not how I feel about it's existence. Frankly, a true 12v12 BTB would have been better than copying titanfall, but I think the studio lacks the understanding of Halo, and has otherwise not displayed they have the talent, to realise that something closer to BTB or Invasion is a better option for upping Halos player count. Warzone is Dominion on steroids, which in turn was just a hand holding, weapon gifting version of BTB 3 plots.

 

All in all, I disagree with his Arena analysis greatly, and find it biased and formulated by someone who doesn't quite understand Halo, but is a fan. He sees a funtional Multiplayer with some effort into its design, especially compared to Halo 4's shoehorned features, and praises it as being more Halo, which it ultimately really isnt, Halo 5 just does a better job at being an coherent, somewhat unique multiplayer, rather than feeling like it has shoehorned elements, but it still has major departures from Halo, some larger than Halo 4's, but also more subtle.

 

His campaign and warzone analysis where spot on however.

 

Halo 5 Multiplayer which was intended to compromise and unify a divided community, has only divided it further it seems. Seeing the trend following and ability filled modern Halo produce a decent playing and unique multiplayer seems to have reinforced 343 fans idea Halo can follow this path of following the latest trends

 

While many 343 Halo critics (like myself) will ultimately not compromise. I do not want gimmick filled, trend following Halos. Doesn't matter if the they are shoehorned loadouts or well designed movement mechanics. They follow trends, and ultimately perpetuate Halo as series with an Identity crisis. The simple and most obvious solution based on Microsoft wanting to pump out Halo titles, is to have traditional Halo and Modern Halo as separate titles releasing in a schedule, like Favyn puts forward

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While many Post 343 Halo critics (like myself) will ultimately not compromise. I do not want gimmick filled, trend following Halos. Doesn't matter if the they are shoehorned loadouts or well designed movement mechanics. They follow trends, and ultimately perpetuate Halo as series with an Identity crisis. The simple and most obvious solution based on Microsoft wanting to pump out Halo titles, is to have traditional Halo and Modern Halo as separate titles releasing in a schedule, like Favyn puts forward

They aren't well designed though. The biggest praise the movement mechanics get (thrust bump) was not intended I'd wager. At least, not at the level people have found ways to do it. Not to mention how often people break the maps that were "rigorously" tested using said mechanics. A well designed mechanic doesn't break maps, only enhances them.

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They aren't well designed though. The biggest praise the movement mechanics get (thrust bump) was not intended I'd wager. At least, not at the level people have found ways to do it. Not to mention how often people break the maps that were "rigorously" tested using said mechanics. A well designed mechanic doesn't break maps, only enhances them.

I don't like them either, don't get me wrong, they slow down gameplay and add randomness to map movement, abilities are a large factor in why I don't play Halo 5 Multiplayer

 

But if you HAVE to make Halo follow the hyper mobility trend (as opposed to innovating movement and designing around that to Halo's strengths, eg add a double jump mechanic) then doing it how 343 have is probably the best that can be done while trying to be kinda like Halo at the same time. It isn't the exact same as the competition, and are built as supplements to Halo ideas, even if not in a way we may like. They don't contradict the formula the way Loadouts do, nor do they blend with the formula the way equipment could have as something between grenades and weapons with the right tweaks. Like Halo 4's campaign takes into account some concepts of Bungie Halo, but ultimately feels disconnected, so do abilities in Halo 5 Multiplayer.

 

The abilities, for the most part, do TRY to fit into the Halo Formula, that was their intention I imagine, but ultimately just change it. I can't stand them either way.

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"You can't use Doom and Overwatch as a metric for no sprint, they're completely different games!"

"No it doesnt play anything like CoD, Halo 5 gameplay is the best its being since before Halo 3, the last thing Halo needs is playing like Halo 3."

"How would you slide without sprint?"

"Halo 5 movement, gunplay, and abilities were all perfect. I don't want to hear otherwise from anyone who barely played."

"Sprint is fine. Boost is fine. Ya'll franchise purists gotta move on. And Halo 3 is still my favorite of the franchise, but man, Halo 5 is still amazing."

 

 

Just fucking kill me now.

Those Neogaf Users:

I'll wait six months to sign up to spout the same useless drivel found on Halo Waypoint by people who don't know what the fuck they are talking about

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"You can't use Doom and Overwatch as a metric for no sprint, they're completely different games!"

"No it doesnt play anything like CoD, Halo 5 gameplay is the best its being since before Halo 3, the last thing Halo needs is playing like Halo 3."

"How would you slide without sprint?"

"Halo 5 movement, gunplay, and abilities were all perfect. I don't want to hear otherwise from anyone who barely played."

"Sprint is fine. Boost is fine. Ya'll franchise purists gotta move on. And Halo 3 is still my favorite of the franchise, but man, Halo 5 is still amazing."

 

 

Just fucking kill me now.

The soldier character in overwatch has sprint so BAM! I just busted your point, no wonder people play overwatch, right?! It's because of one character!

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Thruster would be so much more tolerable if you could tell if someone had it available just by looking at them, like a light on their armor that changes color when it's on cooldown. That would do wonders for everyone psychologically, to have that built in anticipation for when they're going to use it.

 

That and a longer cooldown would be nice.

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"You can't use Doom and Overwatch as a metric for no sprint, they're completely different games!"

"No it doesnt play anything like CoD, Halo 5 gameplay is the best its being since before Halo 3, the last thing Halo needs is playing like Halo 3."

"How would you slide without sprint?"

"Halo 5 movement, gunplay, and abilities were all perfect. I don't want to hear otherwise from anyone who barely played."

"Sprint is fine. Boost is fine. Ya'll franchise purists gotta move on. And Halo 3 is still my favorite of the franchise, but man, Halo 5 is still amazing."

 

 

Just fucking kill me now.

Also just wanted to add that with users with logic that shit, no wonder Frankie uses it

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Thruster would be so much more tolerable if you could tell if someone had it available just by looking at them, like a light on their armor that changes color when it's on cooldown. That would do wonders for everyone psychologically, to have that built in anticipation for when they're going to use it.

 

That and a longer cooldown would be nice.

The balancing mechanics neccesary for abilities usually detracts from the point of the ability.

 

Thruster relies on being unpredictable to be useful, to make it more predictable is to defeat the purpose.

 

It's the same problem as sprint, whem you have to put that much effort into balancing it, should it be there any way, short answer is no

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I don't like them either, don't get me wrong, they slow down gameplay and add randomness to map movement, abilities are a large factor in why I don't play Halo 5 Multiplayer

 

But if you HAVE to make Halo follow the hyper mobility trend (as opposed to innovating movement and designing around that to Halo's strengths, eg add a double jump mechanic) then doing it how 343 have is probably the best that can be done while trying to be kinda like Halo at the same time. It isn't the exact same as the competition, and are built as supplements to Halo ideas, even if not in a way we may like. They don't contradict the formula the way Loadouts do, nor do they blend with the formula the way equipment could have as something between grenades and weapons with the right tweaks. Like Halo 4's campaign takes into account some concepts of Bungie Halo, but ultimately feels disconnected, so do abilities in Halo 5 Multiplayer.

 

The abilities, for the most part, do TRY to fit into the Halo Formula, that was their intention I imagine, but ultimately just change it. I can't stand them either way.

I agree it's attempting to follow the trend, and I wouldn't be adverse to Halo having higher mobility if it worked within the game and more in line with Halo. A double jump would be fine, or a wall kick mechanic. Halo 5 is just an attempt to make "New" Halo and it doesn't do the mobility well regardless of what people actually think it slows the game down, and is ultimately clunky

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I agree it's attempting to follow the trend, and I wouldn't be adverse to Halo having higher mobility if it worked within the game and more in line with Halo. A double jump would be fine, or a wall kick mechanic. Halo 5 is just an attempt to make "New" Halo and it doesn't do the mobility well regardless of what people actually think it slows the game down, and is ultimately clunky

Agreed.

 

343 should just take Vanilla Murder Miners as their starting point.

 

If Halo 6 was a high budget murder miners gameplay wise, I would be Ok with that

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I still say just look at what UT4 does with its advanced mobility.  Much of which wouldn't conflict with Halo at all if toned down.

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Thruster relies on being unpredictable to be useful, to make it more predictable is to defeat the purpose.

 

It's the same problem as sprint, whem you have to put that much effort into balancing it, should it be there any way, short answer is no

 

In regards to that first sentence, the unpredictability is still there in the timing of its usage, as well as the direction.

 

However, I'm interested to see what others have to say about your second point there.  My immediate reaction is that something isn't necessarily bad when it takes a lot of work to balance it, but rather something well balanced almost feels as if balancing it was effortless.

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In regards to that first sentence, the unpredictability is still there in the timing of its usage, as well as the direction.

 

However, I'm interested to see what others have to say about your second point there.  My immediate reaction is that something isn't necessarily bad when it takes a lot of work to balance it, but rather something well balanced almost feels as if balancing it was effortless.

 

Of course any new feature is going to require some level of effort to design and balance it properly.

 

If you have to really struggle and redesign most of your game to fit one feature though then it's safe to assume it doesn't belong in the game.

 

If a feature is right for the game it will just fit naturally into things and not require anywhere near that much effort.

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In regards to that first sentence, the unpredictability is still there in the timing of its usage, as well as the direction.

 

However, I'm interested to see what others have to say about your second point there.  My immediate reaction is that something isn't necessarily bad when it takes a lot of work to balance it, but rather something well balanced almost feels as if balancing it was effortless.

It's fine if the balancing is a lot of work to me, but when it gets described as a "compromise" we have an issue. 

 

edit: also what Ramirez said ^^^

 

I was speaking in terms of just Halo

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Of course any new feature is going to require some level of effort to design and balance it properly.

 

If you have to really struggle and redesign most of your game to fit one feature though then it's safe to assume it doesn't belong in the game.

 

If a feature is right for the game it will just fit naturally into things and not require anywhere near that much effort.

Better way of putting what I meant, How I worded it was quick and dirty

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