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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Let's be honest, that's exactly what everyone does around here.

 

Comparing H5 favourably with a previous Halo that isn't 4? You're gunna get downvoted no matter how you present your opinion.

 

accidental neg my keyboard is broken

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Let's be honest, that's exactly what everyone does around here.

 

Comparing H5 favourably with a previous Halo that isn't 4? You're gunna get downvoted no matter how you present your opinion.

 

Some people do it, definitely not all. There's never been anything wrong with liking vanilla Reach/4/5/etc. It's how you present your opinion is what more than likely gets people down voted. Down votes don't even matter, it's just a number next to your post lol. I've gotten plenty of down votes from people; doesn't change my stance at all. No one is going to bash you for liking Halo 5, it's the constant talking down to people because you like Halo 5 is what gets you a bad rep. Now mind you, I'm not saying "you, Meanbean", I mean "you" in general. 

 

I've seen you post very frequently about how much you enjoy Halo 5. That's cool, I've never neg repped you once for that. However I will say about you in particular because you do it a lot (this is just an honest critique; don't take offense, it's not meant in offense), I would honestly stop acknowledging your rep so much when you post. It just draws more attention to it.

 

Me personally, I hate Halo 5 with a burning fucking passion lol. Doesn't mean I can't see the good aspects of Halo 5. However there are a lot of people who will discredit the games that built Halo like CE, 2 and 3 because they like Halo 5 better.

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Some people do it, definitely not all. There's never been anything wrong with liking vanilla Reach/4/5/etc. It's how you present your opinion is what more than likely gets people down voted. Down votes don't even matter, it's just a number next to your post lol. I've gotten plenty of down votes from people; doesn't change my stance at all. No one is going to bash you for liking Halo 5, it's the constant talking down to people because you like Halo 5 is what gets you a bad rep. Now mind you, I'm not saying "you, Meanbean", I mean "you" in general. 

 

I've seen you post very frequently about how much you enjoy Halo 5. That's cool, I've never neg repped you once for that. However I will say about you in particular because you do it a lot (this is just an honest critique; don't take offense, it's not meant in offense), I would honestly stop acknowledging your rep so much when you post. It just draws more attention to it.

 

Me personally, I hate Halo 5 with a burning fucking passion lol. Doesn't mean I can't see the good aspects of Halo 5. However there are a lot of people who will discredit the games that built Halo like CE, 2 and 3 because they like Halo 5 better.

I really don't care about my rep, if I did then I'd stop posting about how much I like H5. The only times I really acknowledge it is when it's used as a "disagree button". If I write a lengthy post about something and all I'm met with is a wave of downvotes I get a little bit pissed off. Not because of the downvotes, no, I get pissed because I spent time and effort into writing something which I wanted to discuss. However, instead of engaging in discussion people just downvote and move on. 

 

That's one of the reasons I honestly think the rep system is fucking stupid.

 

We're on a forum, a place designed to promote and encourage discussion. The rep system actively discourages this. A downvote is the essence of a shitpost distilled into a single button press. Most of the time it is used merely as a disagree button (you're right, not by everyone, but most do). Not only does this discourage people with controversial opinions from posting (I agree people shouldn't care about rep but apparently a lot do) but it's also used as I described above where people will downvote instead of engaging in discussion. 

 

Whilst upvotes aren't as bad as downvotes they do cause rep whoring which is also annoying.

 

The rep system in its entirety serves nothing more than to create a hivemind environment filled with circle jerking.

 

 

 

And before anyone says I must care about rep to bother taking the time to write this: I enjoy talking about Halo and IMO the rep system makes this site a much worse place to do that.

 

On that note, do you have to be a mod or something to get the infinite red bar? I'd quite like that.

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I really don't care about my rep, if I did then I'd stop posting about how much I like H5. The only times I really acknowledge it is when it's used as a "disagree button". If I write a lengthy post about something and all I'm met with is a wave of downvotes I get a little bit pissed off. Not because of the downvotes, no, I get pissed because I spent time and effort into writing something which I wanted to discuss. However, instead of engaging in discussion people just downvote and move on. 

 

That's one of the reasons I honestly think the rep system is fucking stupid.

 

We're on a forum, a place designed to promote and encourage discussion. The rep system actively discourages this. A downvote is the essence of a shitpost distilled into a single button press. Most of the time it is used merely as a disagree button (you're right, not by everyone, but most do). Not only does this discourage people with controversial opinions from posting (I agree people shouldn't care about rep but apparently a lot do) but it's also used as I described above where people will downvote instead of engaging in discussion. 

 

Whilst upvotes aren't as bad as downvotes they do cause rep whoring which is also annoying.

 

The rep system in its entirety serves nothing more than to create a hivemind environment filled with circle jerking.

 

 

 

And before anyone says I must care about rep to bother taking the time to write this: I enjoy talking about Halo and IMO the rep system makes this site a much worse place to do that.

 

On that note, do you have to be a mod or something to get the infinite red bar? I'd quite like that.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

 

I've never liked rep systems in which you could downvote. Hell, even upvoting can lead to stifled discussion in places like Reddit, where the community effectively curates the posts they like the best, and more often than not those posts are just zingers and witty one-liners. Controversial opinions or comments actually trying to simulate discussion get left in the dirt a lot of the time. Thankfully most forums don't work like Reddit :P

 

Another forum I frequent actually only allows for "likes" and no downvotes, which while better than your standard rep system, also has its downsides. While this leads to less driveby responses, it can still be odd. It's strange to see a detailed response with a bunch of likes, but no one responding to them. This doesn't always occur, of course (much of the time it does not), but it's still something that CN indirectly affect discussion, even if it is far better than most rep systems.

 

It was very evident with your response to me regarding Halo 5's play spaces. You presented a clear and concise argument, which, even if one disagrees, is all anyone can ask for in a discussion. But rather than counter arguments, you were just neg bombed. Really disappointing behavior to see :(

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On that note, do you have to be a mod or something to get the infinite red bar? I'd quite like that.

 

If you go premium there is a username and rep request thread where you could probably get that. 

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I agree with you wholeheartedly.

 

I've never liked rep systems in which you could downvote. Hell, even upvoting can lead to stifled discussion in places like Reddit, where the community effectively curates the posts they like the best, and more often than not those posts are just zingers and witty one-liners. Controversial opinions or comments actually trying to simulate discussion get left in the dirt a lot of the time. Thankfully most forums don't work like Reddit :P

 

Another forum I frequent actually only allows for "likes" and no downvotes, which while better than your standard rep system, also has its downsides. While this leads to less driveby responses, it can still be odd. It's strange to see a detailed response with a bunch of likes, but no one responding to them. This doesn't always occur, of course (much of the time it does not), but it's still something that CN indirectly affect discussion, even if it is far better than most rep systems.

 

It was very evident with your response to me regarding Halo 5's play spaces. You presented a clear and concise argument, which, even if one disagrees, is all anyone can ask for in a discussion. But rather than counter arguments, you were just neg bombed. Really disappointing behavior to see :(

Exactly. 

 

Reddit's system of sorting by vote count makes it absolutely terrible for real discussion IMO. It more than actively discourages it, in a lot of ways it prevents discussion.

 

I would be really happy if Beyond removed downvotes. Like you said just upvotes isn't perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than what we currently have. An "I agree" button is far better than an "I disagree" button.

 

And yeah, that post is exactly what I was referring to before.

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Me personally, I hate Halo 5 with a burning fucking passion lol. Doesn't mean I can't see the good aspects of Halo 5. However there are a lot of people who will discredit the games that built Halo like CE, 2 and 3 because they like Halo 5 better.

 

For the record, because I'm sure I come off as a Halo 5 shill sometimes, I thoroughly enjoyed every Halo game except Default Reach and H4 when they were the current game. Now the only ones that I get enjoyment out of past nostalgia are H1 and H3 once I get past the aiming (and even with 1 it's more because I like the idea of H1 more than I actually have fun playing it. I find it suffers pretty hard from the same "wall of difficulty" problem that most fighting games deal with. You can't be a competent player without memorizing spawns and randoms along with a few important nade tricks.) I'm critical of the old games because I no longer have fun playing them, the same way many are critical of H5 because they don't have fun playing it.

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For the record, because I'm sure I come off as a Halo 5 shill sometimes, I thoroughly enjoyed every Halo game except Default Reach and H4 when they were the current game. Now the only ones that I get enjoyment out of past nostalgia are H1 and H3 once I get past the aiming (and even with 1 it's more because I like the idea of H1 more than I actually have fun playing it. I find it suffers pretty hard from the same "wall of difficulty" problem that most fighting games deal with. You can't be a competent player without memorizing spawns and randoms along with a few important nade tricks.) I'm critical of the old games because I no longer have fun playing them, the same way many are critical of H5 because they don't have fun playing it.

Question: would H5 not fall in this? You can't be a competent player for example if you dont know certain jumps or spawn manipulations i.e spawning a team elbow on Coli CTF. i would imagine most if not all competitive games have that wall due to their very nature
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Question: would H5 not fall in this? You can't be a competent player for example if you dont know certain jumps or spawn manipulations i.e spawning a team elbow on Coli CTF. i would imagine most if not all competitive games have that wall due to their very nature

 

You'd be surprised. I used to team with a guy who didn't know thrust-sliding was a thing.

 

Also, "If no one is standing on Elbow, they'll spawn there and not on top of our flag guy" is a bit easier than "If I stand in this exact spot and jump the moment my teammate is spawning, he will get a random spawn" IMO. You can learn spawn manipulation in most Halos by just playing and getting a "feel" for it.

 

There are honestly some very good H5 players that don't really have a solid understanding of the game past general strategies they've copied from watching pros. Shooting really well and attempting to emulate pro players gets you pretty far.

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H5 has the worst wall of entry for new players. Even though CE is the harder to master of the entire franchise I would say it's among the easiest to get into.

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While I do like how Eden plays, I also think that maps with the preferred 2 cap (rig, plaza) also work well.

 

When you watch close matches on these gametypes , much of the game time is spent with neither team having The strong 2 cap, but both scratching to at least achieve it. It seems like this where most of the interesting plays are made because you know exactly what each team would like to do, ideally, but they are in each other's way. In these scenearios, there's a ton of variance in execution and interesting decision making required for each team.

 

I'll post this plaza match again, because it's a great example of the game NOT completely centering around a team resting on a 2 cap.

Rather, it centers on how efficiently they can play out of less than ideal situations and how well they can 3 cap.

 

Str8 narrowly won this map with just 39 of their points coming from having Nest and Bottom Mid. They had 25 points from a poor mans setup,and a game swinging 36 pts from just 2 trip caps. They had the ONLY spawn trap of the entire game DURING one of their trip caps (which flies directly in the face of @@MultiLockOn 's argument about Trip Cap randomness)

 

Optic lost, despite holding the better 2cap for a whopping 46 pts. What actually cost them the game was their inability to hold 3 caps as effectively as Str8 (3 trip caps for just 23 pts) and their inability to convert their poor man setups (27 pts) into Better scenarios. Their final chance at a comeback was lost because they failed to maintain a weak 2 cap (yard + mid).

 

At higher levels of play, I disagree that the strength of singular 2cap positions undermines the gametype. It creates a clear point of contention, and forces teams to adapt effeciently when the better scenario is unavailable.

 

In the match posted 43% of points scored were out of the strong 2 cap. While each team leaned on the strong 2 cap, THE MAJORITY of the game was played under different conditions (this again flies counter to the argument that the game is about sitting on the strong 2 cap). The winner was the team who played better under those different conditions. And this is the case anytime both teams are playing well.

 

When the game first launched teams simply tried to babysit the strong 2 cap, but that was because they had a simple understanding of how the gametype works. This just isnt the case anymore.

 

First off, thanks for taking the time to respond to my post (I hate it when they get lost...)

 

 

But back to the topic of discussion, you present some good points, and I did watch the video.

 

I would definitely agree that one of the best traits of a team/players is seeing how well they can adapt to extremely unfavorable odds and overcome it. I was once taught this while being spawn-sniped on Forge-Sanctuary's rocks as a noob in Halo 4. You could say it was drilled into my head lol.

 

However, I am not so sure that a gametype and/or map that constantly puts players/teams in such unfavorable positions should be a highlight of the strength of such a gametype and/or map in a match.

 

The struggle for the ideal 2-cap on Rig and Plaza does create a clear focus point of contention I'll agree, but at the same time I will also say that that can also make Strongholds on those maps much more 1-dimensional, especially with the lack of 3-way interplay between the 3 Strongholds on those maps.

 

What kind of interplay does Nest have with Yard on Plaza, for example? They are at opposite ends of the map. And mid is also completely segregated from Yard(segmentation isn't necessarily a bad thing but how do these Strongholds flow to the other? They don't really IMO).

 

Where on Eden the 3-way interplay between the 3 Strongholds on the map is much stronger and they flow together much better IMO, any 2 of the Eden Strongholds has its own unique viability. I don't see that on the other maps and I consider that a bad thing for showcasing the Strongholds gametype.

 

However, I can understand how perhaps the ideal and disproportionate 2-cap setups can lead to interesting matches that can potentially showcase the test of a team's skill. But I disagree that it is good way to actually experience the strength of Strongholds in game.

 

I consider this is similar to how Lockout Slayer is usually considered terrible due to the extremely stand-off oriented nature of that gametype and map combo, but at the same time the tension of it is also fun to watch for some. But often a boring slog to play for others.

 

Ultimately I acknowledge and can see your point of view, it definitely provoked some good thoughts, but honestly I must say that I respectfully disagree.

 

GG

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How dumb are the people who say the aiming was never broken

Some people aren't necessarily self-aware for what makes a good aiming system. But it's frustrating to see them think that their ignorance somehow makes them an expert against people who can clearly tell the difference.

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H5 has the worst wall of entry for new players. Even though CE is the harder to master of the entire franchise I would say it's among the easiest to get into.

 

Depends on what you find difficult, and where you draw the line for what is considered competent. I think it's hard to argue against H3 as having the lowest barrier to entry (As it is basically H2 without the mechanical difficulty of button glitches and setup-centric gameplay of H2).

 

If you are someone who finds memorizing spawn points and nade tricks tedious or difficult, H1 might turn you off before you get very far. If you find mechanical difficulty like H5's movement or H2's button glitches to be difficult, then yes H5 is going to be tough to get into.

 

Edit: To clarify, I think it's around the same point in a players development that they'd start needing random spawns in H1 as they would start needing advanced movement or button glitches to keep up with the competition.

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Good lord had the customs browser actually been in Halo 5 at launch along with at least Forge and Infection on disc, I would have gladly overlooked shafting split-screen and having such an awful story it basically doesn't matter. I would've overlooked the severe lack of good settings or modes as well. Knowing you can at least play basic Slayer and Objective now without godawful settings is proving (again) to do well in overcoming almost everything else wrong with the game. All those things are really something I'd sooner let Halo die than to live on without, especially with how vital they were in getting me into the series (split-screen in particular) but it's just so much easier to overlook now with that addition.

 

(And please for the love of god someone tell me who made it possible to edit strafe acceleration in a Halo game.)

 

Now Halo 5 could actually edge out Halo 4 and Reach if it launched this way, because not only are the default settings slightly less awful but you can actually avoid them entirely now. That's NEVER been the case in Halo before. Yeah, initially default settings were never so alienating that this was something to worry about to begin with, but being able to play a Halo game any way you want and never be totally restricted as to how you can enjoy the game, even if it inevitably cuts down on content or quality in other areas, is the true winner here. It isn't negotiable after 15 years because of all that money and time spent to be able to play the game the way you want. No, that is not how it always felt, but in the end, I'm glad.

 

If Halo 5 was actually like this at launch, could you imagine? How about for Halo 6? People ultimately don't mind sifting through a little garbage, you just need to make damn sure there is something of value underneath. With a good campaign, a thriving population, and those basic things at launch, the name 'Halo' could actually mean something again. It will still be some time until we see Halo 3 or Overwatch numbers again, if ever, but it can absolutely see mainstream relevance again.

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For the record, because I'm sure I come off as a Halo 5 shill sometimes, I thoroughly enjoyed every Halo game except Default Reach and H4 when they were the current game. Now the only ones that I get enjoyment out of past nostalgia are H1 and H3 once I get past the aiming (and even with 1 it's more because I like the idea of H1 more than I actually have fun playing it. I find it suffers pretty hard from the same "wall of difficulty" problem that most fighting games deal with. You can't be a competent player without memorizing spawns and randoms along with a few important nade tricks.) I'm critical of the old games because I no longer have fun playing them, the same way many are critical of H5 because they don't have fun playing it.

 

And there's nothing wrong with that at all. Me personally, I've never condemned anyone for liking Halo 5. There's a bunch of things I love about Halo 5 and I've pointed them out in the past several times, the cons of the game outweigh them for me so I simply just don't play nor argue about it lol. All of the previous games had things wrong with them though as well, none of them were perfect. It's easy to be critical of games you don't enjoy either.

 

The only problem I've had with discussions in the past is when critical thinking goes out of the window when someone doesn't like something. 

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H5 has the worst wall of entry for new players. Even though CE is the harder to master of the entire franchise I would say it's among the easiest to get into.

Ya, h5 has a very intimidating and complex entry level. I feel this is a huge part of H5's inability to grow a substantial playerbase. Titanfall seems to have the same issue. Hell, pretty much every single game that fell in line with the "advanced movement" fad suffers from this issue. The only game that seemed immune was Blops 3. However I would attribute that mostly to brand recognition as the other two COD games that used those mechanics(AW and IW) have struggled.

 

They're just really complicated games to get in to. The basic control scheme is ridiculous.

 

A game like HCE was very deep, but only once you got really deep in to the meta. It's just really skewed now because the game is 15 years old and a disproportionately high percentage of the remaining playerbase is made up of very, very seasoned, skilled players. So it seems like those aspects of the game are common knowledge. They're really not though.

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It's just really skewed now because the game is 15 years old and a disproportionately high percentage of the remaining playerbase is made up of very, very seasoned, skilled players. So it seems like those aspects of the game are common knowledge. They're really not though.

 

I think the same think could be said about H5 and the movement mechanics. Most players on the forums are at least diamond level players based on general Halo knowledge/residual skill alone, and that's the level advanced movement mechanics slowly stop being optional.

 

But this is a good point.

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Depends on what you find difficult, and where you draw the line for what is considered competent. I think it's hard to argue against H3 as having the lowest barrier to entry (As it is basically H2 without the mechanical difficulty of button glitches and setup-centric gameplay of H2).

 

If you are someone who finds memorizing spawn points and nade tricks tedious or difficult, H1 might turn you off before you get very far. If you find mechanical difficulty like H5's movement or H2's button glitches to be difficult, then yes H5 is going to be tough to get into.

 

Edit: To clarify, I think it's around the same point in a players development that they'd start needing random spawns in H1 as they would start needing advanced movement or button glitches to keep up with the competition.

I don't think you're really looking at this from the same angle that others are. You're talking about a very high level of the meta where as others seem to be talking about a very basic level.

 

With H5 there are just a lot of buttons. When you pick up the game for the first time there is a lot of stuff to learn just to be able to simply use all the mechanics the game is offereing. This is before you even hit the most basic of the more advanced maneuvers like stabalise jumping.

 

HCE on a basic level is incredibly simple. Incredibly. "This is how you move. This is how you aim. This is how you shoot, nade, change weapons and jump". So simple.

 

With H5 it's like "this is how you walk. Then this is how you sprint. This is how you aim. This is how you ADS. This is how you jump. This is how you thrust. This is how you change weapons. This is how you slide. This is how you nade. This is how you ground pound"

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Ya, h5 has a very intimidating and complex entry level. I feel this is a huge part of H5's inability to grow a substantial playerbase. Titanfall seems to have the same issue. Hell, pretty much every single game that fell in line with the "advanced movement" fad suffers from this issue. The only game that seemed immune was Blops 3. However I would attribute that mostly to brand recognition as the other two COD games that used those mechanics(AW and IW) have struggled.

 

They're just really complicated games to get in to. The basic control scheme is ridiculous.

 

The word I would use, really, is "convoluted." H5 is one of the few games on Xbox that practically requires a controller with paddles (or playing claw) to function properly. It's actually ridiculous and doesn't really do much for the overall skill gap, especially compared to games like Quake and Reflex, in which high level movement involves precision character and mouse control and... jump (no context-sensitive ledge-grabbing). GoW4 is similar. High movement skill gap built around character and camera movement and one button (two on alternate controls). H5 has a bunch of discrete and/or context-sensitive abilities and animations that make it seem way more complicated than it really is and most of the shit that requires any particular amount of execution skill isn't really that useful.

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What's your deal @@Moa. Am I not allowed to spread the word about a Halo LAN?  
Surely you understand some people only come to this site and look at one thread.  

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First off, thanks for taking the time to respond to my post (I hate it when they get lost...)

 

 

But back to the topic of discussion, you present some good points, and I did watch the video.

 

I would definitely agree that one of the best traits of a team/players is seeing how well they can adapt to extremely unfavorable odds and overcome it. I was once taught this while being spawn-sniped on Forge-Sanctuary's rocks as a noob in Halo 4. You could say it was drilled into my head lol.

 

However, I am not so sure that a gametype and/or map that constantly puts players/teams in such unfavorable positions should be a highlight of the strength of such a gametype and/or map in a match.

 

The struggle for the ideal 2-cap on Rig and Plaza does create a clear focus point of contention I'll agree, but at the same time I will also say that that can also make Strongholds on those maps much more 1-dimensional, especially with the lack of 3-way interplay between the 3 Strongholds on those maps.

 

What kind of interplay does Nest have with Yard on Plaza, for example? They are at opposite ends of the map. And mid is also completely segregated from Yard(segmentation isn't necessarily a bad thing but how do these Strongholds flow to the other? They don't really IMO).

 

Where on Eden the 3-way interplay between the 3 Strongholds on the map is much stronger and they flow together much better IMO, any 2 of the Eden Strongholds has its own unique viability. I don't see that on the other maps and I consider that a bad thing for showcasing the Strongholds gametype.

 

However, I can understand how perhaps the ideal and disproportionate 2-cap setups can lead to interesting matches that can potentially showcase the test of a team's skill. But I disagree that it is good way to actually experience the strength of Strongholds in game.

 

I consider this is similar to how Lockout Slayer is usually considered terrible due to the extremely stand-off oriented nature of that gametype and map combo, but at the same time the tension of it is also fun to watch for some. But often a boring slog to play for others.

 

Ultimately I acknowledge and can see your point of view, it definitely provoked some good thoughts, but honestly I must say that I respectfully disagree.

 

GG

I can understand why you like Eden and the viability of any 2 cap... I like it for the same reason. But I think that just makes it different, not better. I think there's room for maps that play differently and encourage varied strategies. There SHOULD be more maps with Eden's philosophy, but there is no need to get rid of Rig or Plaza, they play very well.

 

I don't share your opinion that all strongholds on a map need to be "interoperable" in order for the map to be good. (I'm guessing by that you are referring to line of sight).

 

The lack of interoperability is what makes a yard + nest cap a pivotal moment, for example. It leaves both teams with some very interesting decisions to make. Neither one is in a great situation. 1 is scoring, but are in a hard to defend position. The other is not scoring, but are In possession of the most difficult hill to cap. Both teams simultaneously have their backs against the wall, and that's exciting imo. And I think it's a type of excitement you don't get when any 2cap is as good as the next. Also this scenario isn't 1-dimensional. It would be if the obvious solution was for the team with mid to push nest, and for the scoring team to push mid. But often you'll see action kick off towards yard as one team tries to stop the bleeding and the other tries to counter that play and turn a trip cap. It's a complete mind game.

 

I dont really understand comparing any current stronghold map to Lockout Slayer, because Strongholds already encourages more map movement than any other gametype in the game. We've seen Slayer slow to a standstill, we've seen flag standoffs that take FOREVER. we've never seen a game of strongholds stagnate because each team ALWAYS has a reason to push or pull.

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I don't think you're really looking at this from the same angle that others are. You're talking about a very high level of the meta where as others seem to be talking about a very basic level.

 

With H5 there are just a lot of buttons. When you pick up the game for the first time there is a lot of stuff to learn just to be able to simply use all the mechanics the game is offereing. This is before you even hit the most basic of the more advanced maneuvers like stabalise jumping.

 

HCE on a basic level is incredibly simple. Incredibly. "This is how you move. This is how you aim. This is how you shoot, nade, change weapons and jump". So simple.

 

With H5 it's like "this is how you walk. Then this is how you sprint. This is how you aim. This is how you ADS. This is how you jump. This is how you thrust. This is how you change weapons. This is how you slide. This is how you nade. This is how you ground pound"

 

For a console shooter, simply moving around effectively in this game is incredibly complicated.  This is not a game that someone new to shooters can just jump in and play.

 

Part of this honestly, is the campaign.  Historically games that had a large MP audience also had a campaign that was basically meant to tell a story and introduce you to the mechanics of the game with difficulties from "Wow i cant die" to "wow i can't stay alive".  MP-only games weren't even feasible until very recently.  There are a lot of people that "buy for the campaign" then get sucked into the multiplayer. If the campaign is done properly, they will be able to take their skills from the campaign and go into multiplayer and at least not feel like they are embarrassing themselves.

 

H1 - Reach did this very well because the campaigns were fun, replayable via co-op (including couch co-op) and all had self-contained stories that some people got sucked into.  This is a GREAT way to introduce new players to your game, and make them fans.

 

H4 and 5 fail in this regard.  5 fails technically because there is no split-screen, and they both fail in every other respect. The campaigns really arent approachable.  The story is not self contained so not only do you need knowledge of the prior games, but you also need knowledge of swaths of the expanded universe to have any fucking idea what is going on.  And the campaigns are pretty generic shooter fare that dont really leave a lasting impression.  

 

343 wants to pull in new players by making the game more accessible (but overcomplicates the movement, go figure) when what they really need to do is make a really fucking good, replayable campaign.

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What's your deal @@Moa. Am I not allowed to spread the word about a Halo LAN?  

Surely you understand some people only come to this site and look at one thread.  

What exactly does a CE 2v2 tournament have anything to do with Halo 5?

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