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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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It's that special time of year, where Halo 5 fans and haters can all come together with some holiday cheer and neg the shit out of Brad Pitt's posts.

Go ahead, I can neg too. 343 lovers don't like what I have to say? I think I'll cry. I'm not here for a popularity contest. All the negs in the world won't stop me from telling the truth about how terrible 343's Halo games are and how much better Bungie's were, despite their flaws. It's pathetic that 6 years later, Reach BTB is still the best option to play Halo multiplayer.

 

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We can agree to disagree on which was worse, Reach at launch or H4 on launch. I did a poll on that a few months ago and it was really, really close. Made for a good read.

 

My point about Bungie and vanilla Reach was that they chose that, and they never fixed it. 343 fixed it. If they had their way it'd still be just vanilla Reach. Now, 343 had terrible launches with H4 and H5 as well, but they've also taken measures to improve both games drastically since launch, and have accepted feedback and listened to criticism (not enough, but a hell of a lot more than Bungie did towards the end).

 

The only thing Bungie patched with H3 was the dumb melee system right at the beginning. No more patches. They didn't patch Reach at all, despite huge outcry dating back to the beta. Lukems even went so far as to say that the Beta feedback was just "wasted keystrokes". So not only were they making shitty decisions and trending downward, but they were arrogant about it, increasingly so over time. That's why they left a bad taste in my mouth. I just had no hope that they would correct the nosedive. All I could expect was a feature-complete, perfectly functioning, well-polished turd, and zero attempt to improve it post launch.

 

Now I look at 343, and I facepalm at all the dumb decisions they've made, but I also see steady improvement, humility, and evidence of listening to feedback. I have hope that if I'm patient enough, they will make an excellent game. I had the opposite feeling with Bungie.

Yeah, I remember that poll and voted H4 was worse and yeah it was a good thread.

 

Bungie was done with Halo after they released Reach, so I don't think they had the motivation to do anything with it. I do suspect that they helped 343 with the TU, as Bungie knew all the coding and what not for the game.

 

Halo 3 didn't have huge, game breaking flaws, like Reach, H4, and H5....so there was nothing to patch besides the melee system. That shows how awesome Halo 3 was, if anything. Also, Bungie drastically improved Halo 3 BTB. I remember being pissed when H3 first came out because BTB sucked so bad. Covies and VIP(AR start, lol) were a disaster. Bungie got rid of those and added great game types like neutral assault, multi-flag, 1 bomb, and 1 flag. Plus the DLC BTB maps were awesome.

 

I don't see any improvement with 343. Halo 5 features overpowered autos, can't miss rifles & snipers, Spartan charge, ground pound, clamber, sprint, garbage aiming, thruster, poor UI, bad maps, clunky physics overall, terrible vehicle phsyics, splinter grenades, Borezone, and that's just off the top of my head. That's not improvement. That's a broken, unplayable game.

 

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Go ahead, I can neg too. 343 lovers don't like what I have to say? I think I'll cry. I'm not here for a popularity contest. All the negs in the world won't stop me from telling the truth about how terrible 343's Halo games are and how much better Bungie's were, despite their flaws. It's pathetic that 6 years later, Reach BTB is still the best option to play Halo multiplayer.

 

Remember, there's a big difference between you enjoying something and it actually being good.

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Yeah, I remember that poll and voted H4 was worse and yeah it was a good thread.

 

Bungie was done with Halo after they released Reach, so I don't think they had the motivation to do anything with it. I do suspect that they helped 343 with the TU, as Bungie knew all the coding and what not for the game.

 

Halo 3 didn't have huge, game breaking flaws, like Reach, H4, and H5....so there was nothing to patch besides the melee system. That shows how awesome Halo 3 was, if anything. Also, Bungie drastically improved Halo 3 BTB. I remember being pissed when H3 first came out because BTB sucked so bad. Covies and VIP(AR start, lol) were a disaster. Bungie got rid of those and added great game types like neutral assault, multi-flag, 1 bomb, and 1 flag. Plus the DLC BTB maps were awesome.

 

I don't see any improvement with 343. Halo 5 features overpowered autos, can't miss rifles & snipers, Spartan charge, ground pound, clamber, sprint, garbage aiming, thruster, poor UI, bad maps, clunky physics overall, terrible vehicle phsyics, splinter grenades, Borezone, and that's just off the top of my head. That's not improvement. That's a broken, unplayable game.

Speaking as someone who avoids H5 matchmaking like the plague

 

Yeah Reach was definately better than 5, All Halo reach had was Bloom, Loadouts, Shitty Jumping, Shitty Movespeed, Shitty Killtime, Easy Sniper, Armour Lock, Jetpacks, No melee bleed through, nuke grenades, overscaled and awful maps, frame issues, anti alising issues etc.

 

Everything after three is a MAJOR departure in some form a somewhat common formula, some would argue otherwise, but every game, even CE, has issues, some more than others

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Go ahead, I can neg too. 343 lovers don't like what I have to say? I think I'll cry. I'm not here for a popularity contest. All the negs in the world won't stop me from telling the truth about how terrible 343's Halo games are and how much better Bungie's were, despite their flaws. It's pathetic that 6 years later, Reach BTB is still the best option to play Halo multiplayer.

 

lol. I don't like 343 and I think their games are shit, but I will at least acknowledge them doing things right. Reach was also shit and Reach BTB is terrible. I would rather play the H5 equivalent and I uninstalled that game for a reason. Bungie literally made their core mechanics worse with each successive game. Why anyone would give Reach-era Bungie as much credit as you do is a mystery to me.

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I don't see any improvement with 343. Halo 5 features overpowered autos, can't miss rifles & snipers, Spartan charge, ground pound, clamber, sprint, garbage aiming, thruster, poor UI, bad maps, clunky physics overall, terrible vehicle phsyics, splinter grenades, Borezone, and that's just off the top of my head. That's not improvement. That's a broken, unplayable game.

 

That's because you're not looking for it. Halo 5 has improved massively since launch. It's fine if you don't like the game and don't want to play it, but you ignore facts.  You've made up your mind about the game and the company, and so you don't follow it anymore and don't see all the changes they make. Which would still be fine, if you didn't constantly spout misinformed rhetoric and hyperbole on the subject.

 

This is why fake news played such a role in this last election. People just believe what they want to believe.

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"Improved massively since launch" isn't good enough when the launch product was garbage. One year in, how many people are sticking with a game that was crapdick at launch? Especially one developed by a studio that's now released 3 games in a row that were either flat-out broken or of horrible quality at launch?

 

343 never learns. If 343 had truly "learned" from Halo 4's mistakes, then in Halo 5's development they wouldn't have thought it necessary to:

 

-replace armor abilities with spartan abilities

-keep broadcasting the status of power weapons to everyone on the map (this time in the form of a weapon pad)

-omit necessary objective gametypes, and make asinine changes to the ones they choose to keep (CTF, flagnum, spotting)

-design the same old bloated, cluttered maps, and apply that treatment to their Midship remake

-make Warzone REQs completely random

 

Halo 5, then and now, is the product of them begrudgingly taking and implementing feedback that they don't actually believe in, probably at O'Connor or the community manager's behest. They were clearly only interested in making arena equal starts if it meant giving everyone, in effect, several armor abilities (sprint, thrust, ground pound, spartan charge). They did nothing to clean up the sandbox. They're making the exact same mistakes in their level design (doubling down on some of them), with a half-assed, obligatory attention given to pieces of feedback like "maps need more verticality" (even though their idea of "verticality" absolutely ruins map flow).

 

I hope people aren't expecting Halo 6 to be a complete, functional game at launch that doesn't require multiple rounds of repairing and rebalancing over the following year. Fool me once, fool me... I think we're up to 'fool me 4 times' now.

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Looking at the comments, people really aren't happy with the choices they have.

I went through with it. It's not perfect due the nature of some of the questions asked, but the OP seems to have made adjustments from the responses.

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Speaking as someone who avoids H5 matchmaking like the plague

 

Yeah Reach was definately better than 5, All Halo reach had was Bloom, Loadouts, Shitty Jumping, Shitty Movespeed, Shitty Killtime, Easy Sniper, Armour Lock, Jetpacks, No melee bleed through, nuke grenades, overscaled and awful maps, frame issues, anti alising issues etc.

TU Reach isn't bad: the bloom is tolerable. Every game is DMR start, so loadouts aren't an issue. I enjoy the jumping in Halo Reach more than any other Halo as it's less floaty and more realistic. Base movement could use a slight increase...in BTB Heavies, it's actually slightly faster. Kill times are fine and right in line with Halo 2 and Halo 3...I enjoy having a DMR shootout with someone instead of dying instantly without having a fighting chance...that's Halo. Sniper is easy, but nothing compared to the super easy H5 sniper. Armorlockers are easy kills in TU and yeah, jetpackers are annoying, but also can be easy targets too. If we could have all the DLC maps free and mandatory, it would be a lot better. I have no problem with frames or anti aliasing.

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That's because you're not looking for it. Halo 5 has improved massively since launch. It's fine if you don't like the game and don't want to play it, but you ignore facts.  You've made up your mind about the game and the company, and so you don't follow it anymore and don't see all the changes they make. Which would still be fine, if you didn't constantly spout misinformed rhetoric and hyperbole on the subject.

 

This is why fake news played such a role in this last election. People just believe what they want to believe.

What facts am I ignoring? Has 343 improved any of the things that caused me to stop playing the game? Those things would be Spartan charge, ground pound, thruster, clamber, weapon balance, overpowered autos, easy-to-use rifles, a sniper that can't miss, splinter grenades. No, they haven't. They have not done a damn thing that would improve my experience with the game, so I have zero reason to try this game again.

 

If you want to debate politics with me, I'm glad to do so in the political thread.

 

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so how are the odds Brad Pitt is actually Frankie on his quest to unite Halo fans?

He just comes here and posts so much crazy shit that even the biggest hardcore-critics find some semi good words for 343 at the end of the year :kappa:

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Has 343I learned? I am hard pressed to say no, although I still have a glimmer of hope that the company will.

 

They apparently provided us with the ability to have V7 settings along with the Reach TU, but then went on to create Infinity Slayer H4.

 

They removed Bloom and brought back melee bleedthrough, but made Sprint a base trait and removed Descope in favor of Flinch(in H4).

 

They improved H4 a bit with the Turbo update that few still cared to see, but have failed to address balance issues in H5 even a year after it launched (to be fair the H4 Turbo update still took like 6 months).

 

They removed Armor Abilities in loadout form only to reincarnate them as Spartan Abilities and give players several by default.

 

With that in mind they gave us equal starts only to throw all the support into Warzone which is the most random and imbalanced gamemode to ever happen to Halo, making even Infinity Slayer from H4 look much better by comparison.

 

 

 

Thats just a summary of the 343I failings with the competitive community. They also alienated many other communities with stuff such as Grifball, SWAT, Infection, Firefight, Campaign, Theater, and even Armor customization. All either lacking at launch/poisoned by the 'Universal settings' BS, or just plain not there.

 

Yes this is a very simple summary of just a few of 343I's issues with the community at large, but the only real thing from 343I that deserves praise is the Forge team, which BTW, the latest update kinda broke with severe framerate issues.

 

Edit: 343I really does have a way of taking 1 step forward, and then 10 steps backwards.

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You could have a list 10 pages long of all the good things 343 has done for competitive Halo, then at the end you'd have these few things and basically invalidate all the previous things:

 

- The aiming system

- Spartan Abilities

- Radar in comp

- OP Automatics

- Redundant sandbox

- Terrible maps

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You could have a list 10 pages long of all the good things 343 has done for competitive Halo, then at the end you'd have these few things and basically invalidate all the previous things:

 

- The aiming system

- Spartan Abilities

- Radar in comp

- OP Automatics

- Redundant sandbox

- Terrible maps

Pretty much.

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This precise focus of spartans has ruined Halo multiplayer. It has brung a mother load of bad ideas and decisions into this franchise. And I strongly believe that if spartans weren't cattered to as they are in multiplayer we wouldn't have sprint. Also these abilities and maps we put up with in Reach-H4-H5. I could only dream of how Halo could have played if we had a vast character selection to play with in multiplayer. Such as playing as a Promethean soldier, The Didact, Elites (of course). Also some old faces like the Arbiter, The rookie (H3ODST) The flood (if done right) ,Avery Johnson(leave the cigar in his mouth) Miranda Keyes ect. This would be more enjoyable then having unlockable armor and helmets which are over and underwhelming at best. Besides I've been there and done that in previous games. We need some variety in Halo. We have variety of weapons but not variety in characters. It feels out of place picking up an alien weapon when you can't even be one of them. It gives off a "not finished" experience. I think It's time for a change already. Keep the Master Chief in but let the spartans take a back seat in multiplayer. Let the players decide who they want to play as rather then cramming turboman down our throats. I've been ready for this. Heck I've been ready since H2.

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This precise focus of spartans has ruined Halo multiplayer. It has brung a mother load of bad ideas and decisions into this franchise. And I strongly believe that if spartans weren't cattered to as they are in multiplayer we wouldn't have sprint. Also these abilities and maps we put up with in Reach-H4-H5. I could only dream of how Halo could have played if we had a vast character selection to play with in multiplayer. Such as playing as a Promethean soldier, The Didact, Elites (of course). Also some old faces like the Arbiter, The rookie (H3ODST) The flood (if done right) ,Avery Johnson(leave the cigar in his mouth) Miranda Keyes ect. This would be more enjoyable then having unlockable armor and helmets which are over and underwhelming at best. Besides I've been there and done that in previous games. We need some variety in Halo. We have variety of weapons but not variety in characters. It feels out of place picking up an alien weapon when you can't even be one of them. It gives off a "not finished" experience. I think It's time for a change already. Keep the Master Chief in but let the spartans take a back seat in multiplayer. Let the players decide who they want to play as rather then cramming turboman down our throats. I've been ready for this. Heck I've been ready since H2.

A bunch of characters of different sizes and shapes in an arena shooter?

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