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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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And why in the world did he previously lead the discussion of weapon balancing and placement if he had no influence in such mechanics?

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I must be in the massive minority, I think REQs did a great job and am pumped for them to return. Halo 6 March 2019 HWC with a 5mil+ prize pool has me just salivating. I would like the to make cosmetics buyable with REQ points/$ and not RNG. Also reduce alot of the bloat where a single line of white paint makes it a different armor set. REQ UI is trash but 343 can't do good UI so meh.

Why buyable/RP based? Honestly, 343i had the system nailed down for cosmetics with Halo 4, which was a proper mix of Halo 3 based unlocks with achievements/challenge based armor, and Reach-esque (Albeit not as arbitrary and stupid) rank grinding.

 

To add to it, the bloat with armor skins is fine. The only issue with them is having a bad UI design for them. Could easily fix it by just designing a UI that goes...:

 

*Mark VI

**Mark VI - (Base set)

**Mark VI - Regent

**Mark VI - Satrap

**Mark VI - Primus

 

Yunno, over the two lines of armor we have now, lacking any sense of organization while also containing 200+ sets in one area.

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Why buyable/RP based? Honestly, 343i had the system nailed down for cosmetics with Halo 4, which was a proper mix of Halo 3 based unlocks with achievements/challenge based armor, and Reach-esque (Albeit not as arbitrary and stupid) rank grinding.

 

To add to it, the bloat with armor skins is fine. The only issue with them is having a bad UI design for them. Could easily fix it by just designing a UI that goes...:

 

*Mark VI

**Mark VI - (Base set)

**Mark VI - Regent

**Mark VI - Satrap

**Mark VI - Primus

 

Yunno, over the two lines of armor we have now, lacking any sense of organization while also containing 200+ sets in one area.

 

Lacking any sense of organization? What, you didn't memorize the order that you unlocked each helmet over the past 14 months? 

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Lacking any sense of organization? What, you didn't memorize the order that you unlocked each helmet over the past 14 months? 

I mean, I have, I just don't others did, nor cared to, and I don't blame them.

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Bungie mostly improved their games from a technical standpoint. Changing or even admitting that the balance of their game isn't the best (and the Reach TU was a very blatant attempt at saying just this) is completely out of line with what Bungie would do. 343i, on the other hand, is well known for providing many, many balance patches...of varying quality.

 

 

No. Bungie made one great "Halo" game, and then three great "Halo 2" games with chronologically decreasing gameplay quality; if we're comparing the multiplayer of the sequels to the original, they're extremely unfaithful, mediocre, poorly balanced "Halo" games. 343i's patch gave us the ability to make gametypes that allowed us emulate a Halo game that had both good maps and a functional utility weapon, and reach a standard of gameplay actually comparable to CE's core tenets.

 

Brad Pitt, if you have trouble believing that the same company that made the Reach TU also made Dumpster Fire 4, then just remember that the same company that made Halo CE made Halo 2.

Well, this is like, your opinion. Your halo hipster opinion.

 

Hce, h2 and h3 are all highly regarded FPS games. Classics. While I do agree that hce MP is the high bar of the franchise that doesn't mean h2 and h3 are bad.

 

Either way. Its ludicrous to say what that guy said that amounted to bungie can't make anything as good as TU reach. At absolute best TU reach belongs in the conversation with the original trilogy. It certainly is not head and shoulders above every bungie halo game though.

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This is true, but tbf Halo 4 was in development long before the Reach patch...and it's development probably started with the assumption that people actually liked the direction Reach was heading in.

 

If i was them, the pressure to release such a Reach patch would have made me seriously question the direction of H4. But was one year enough time to rework everything? of course, If they didn't make so many drastic and unnecessary changes, we wouldn't need them to be more reactive.

Your last sentence nails it. But even still, the launch playlists were a fucking joke. They could have saved themselves so many headaches by simply launching with a classic playlist, designed by someone who actually understands how to make a classic gametype (which is astonishingly rare, it seems).

 

I feel this is common assumption that is only partially true.

 

Players generally gravitate towards less competitive playlists. However I feel as though that has more to do with the caliber other players in the list, as opposed to being all about the settings.

 

For example I knew plenty of people who really liked the ZBNS MLG playlist settings in Reach but wouldn't play it because too many good players played in that list. So they'd play team slayer or OBJ, which had settings they hated.

 

This is an excellent point that often goes unmentioned.  I think this is a huge reason why ranked Team Arena has a low population as well.  In fact, in prior games you could point to the excuse of casuals disliking the reduced sandbox, no autos in the loadout, and no radar.  But now you can point to how Team Arena fairs compared to other playlists and it shows pretty clearly that a well balanced playlist draws good players, good players destroy bad players, and bad players avoid that playlist.

 

This wouldn't be nearly the issue it is if we had good skill AND party matching. This means using the entire rank spectrum, not just Gold 1-Plat 6 in placements. I have seen HORRIBLE Halo players place into Gold. That's stupid and it shouldn't happen. It also means not letting teams of 4 get easy wins off of solos. Low pop regions should be able to disable filters, but something needs to be in place to prevent this. Imo, the absolute most important function of a ranking system is to protect the lower skilled players. It certainly affects the most people.

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Competitive balance generally equates to a higher skill gap. Higher skill gap obviously equates to higher disparity between players.

 

So again, I don't think people simply disliking the settings is the only thing at play there (though obviously it plays a part). It just makes it more unenjoyable to play people who are better than you are.

I never said people disliked the settings. I said they value something other than competitive settings. In other words they find something more important than competitive balance.

 

The disparity between the lower end and the higher end players wouldn't matter if the playlist population was filled with Players from all over the spectrum. The ranking system would match you with Players who are similar in skill.

 

The problem you're friends ran into is that their skill-peers preferred other playlists. So matchmaking couldn't get them good matches.

 

No.

 

If bad players were matched vs bad players this wouldn't be a problem.

We are talking about reach. Bad players were matched with bad players...or they would have been...but those players weren't in the playlist.

 

The system can't make good match if the player pool doesn't allow it. Competitive playlists always had the lowest populations, and were mostly populated by better players. Most of the low level players simply preferred different playlists. This dates back to halo 2.

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What do you guys think about a 3 shot kill pistol with momentum-based projectiles alongside a hit-scan BR with more RRR, but the rate of fire of an H2A BR? Would it be a good dynamic of contending precision weapons compared to our current sandbox, or is that kind of ludicrous?

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What do you guys think about a 3 shot pistol with momentum-based projectiles alongside a hit-scan BR with more RRR, but the rate of fire of an H2A BR? Would it be a good dynamic of contending precision weapons compared to our current sandbox, or is that kind of ludicrous?

Why would we even need the BR in the event we had a skill taking 3-shot, single shot Magnum. We wouldn't. It would only serve to help people in a negative fashion by providing an easier weapon, rather than forcing you to properly get attuned to the hardest. It'd literally be very akin to the issue we have now with the DMR/BR versus the Magnum. If you have a proper weapon, you don't need to dumb it down and provide another carbon, easier copy.

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What do you guys think about a 3 shot kill pistol with momentum-based projectiles alongside a hit-scan BR with more RRR, but the rate of fire of an H2A BR? Would it be a good dynamic of contending precision weapons compared to our current sandbox, or is that kind of ludicrous?

As long as the pistol is the spawn weapon, sure.  Trading TTK for longer RRR and more consistent hits is a fair trade imo.

 

However, the BR essentially becomes a "support weapon" at that point, in which case I'd rather change the Carbine to a long TTK corrosive damage weapon. It fills the support role better.

 

Imo the BR is best served as a hard-to-control weapon that actually fires likes its on 3 round burst (hella recoil, but it hits like a truck). It should be hard to hit a target at range with all three bullets. So it should be a midrange powerhouse that takes skill to wield.

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However, the BR essentially becomes a "support weapon" at that point, in which case I'd rather change the Carbine to a long TTK corrosive damage weapon. It fills the support role better.

With how 343i handled the Lightrifle in both Halo 4 and Halo 5, I REALLY wish they'd take in the idea of a corrosive Carbine, or something like the CE Plasma Rifle, with stunning power. The Forerunner weapons serving two general purposes is a tiny STEP in the right direction, they just need to go more into it.

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Imo the BR is best served as a hard-to-control weapon that actually fires likes its on 3 round burst (hella recoil, but it hits like a truck). It should be hard to hit a target at range with all three bullets. So it should be a midrange powerhouse that takes skill to wield.

In that case, would you try to increase the RoF for the BR or damage to make it "hit like a truck"?

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What do you guys think about a 3 shot kill pistol with momentum-based projectiles alongside a hit-scan BR with more RRR, but the rate of fire of an H2A BR? Would it be a good dynamic of contending precision weapons compared to our current sandbox, or is that kind of ludicrous?

My fear would be that online, magnum users wood be at a greater disadvantage than they are now.

 

Id prefer a 5sk mag with an increased ROF,so that a perfect kill is .9s and a 2x zoom

 

What does corrosive damage mean in this context?

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In that case, would you try to increase the RoF for the BR or damage to make it "hit like a truck"?

Def not the rate of fire, at least mid-burst. Each bullet in the burst should be felt. I wouldn't mind if the rate of fire between shots was really fast, but with the kind of recoil I'm talking about, it would rarely be optimal.

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What does corrosive damage mean in this context?

I believe he is referring to the very slight damage that follows the connected shot, which primarily delays the recharge time of the enemy since he is still taking damage, probably 1-2% of shields in its full duration. The corrosive effect would last about 1/4 of a second and automatically reset once the second shot connects.
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I believe he is referring to the very slight damage that follows the connected shot, which primarily delays the recharge time of the enemy since he is still taking damage, probably 1-2% of shields in its full duration. The corrosive effect would last about 1/4 of a second and automatically reset once the second shot connects.

bingo

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I mean the carbine does shoot radiation based projectiles. Lore wise it has a case for sure.

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I believe he is referring to the very slight damage that follows the connected shot, which primarily delays the recharge time of the enemy since he is still taking damage, probably 1-2% of shields in its full duration. The corrosive effect would last about 1/4 of a second and automatically reset once the second shot connects.

Oh i see. That's a completely new term for me. Seems like an interesting way to differentiate the weapons rather than simple rof,damage,rrr,magnetism tweaks.

 

Was this used for anything in previous halos?

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Your last sentence nails it. But even still, the launch playlists were a fucking joke. They could have saved themselves so many headaches by simply launching with a classic playlist, designed by someone who actually understands how to make a classic gametype (which is astonishingly rare, it seems).

 

 

This is an excellent point that often goes unmentioned.  I think this is a huge reason why ranked Team Arena has a low population was well.  In fact, in prior games you could point to the excuse of casuals disliking the reduced sandbox, no autos in the loadout, and no radar.  But now you can point to how Team Arena fairs compared to other playlists and it shows pretty clearly that a well balanced playlist draws good players, good players destroy bad players, and bad players avoid that playlist.

 

This wouldn't be nearly the issue it is if we had good skill AND party matching. This means using the entire rank spectrum, not just Gold 1-Plat 6 in placements. I have seen HORRIBLE Halo players place into Gold. That's stupid and it shouldn't happen. It also means not letting teams of 4 get easy wins off of solos. Low pop regions should be able to disable filters, but something needs to be in place to prevent this. Imo, the absolute most important function of a ranking system is to protect the lower skilled players. It certainly affects the most people.

Lmao gold players are horrible.

 

No, but seriously I know what you mean by teams of 4 versus solo players; I'm trying to solo to onyx in slayer and it's taking me a hell of a long time, not at all helped by the 3 versus 4 games that occur oh so often. Today i was playing on Mercy, and at the beginning of the match I'm checking the scoreboard to see there's anyone I know, and I just see one name disappear and go "Oh fuck." Another guy quit two minutes later and I messaged the other team to not kill me (they agreed) and I just spent the next eight minutes trying to get the lamp jump.

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