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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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If you're Australian you'd be able to fit the Onyx ANZ population onto a friends list with a 100 limit.

 

I got to Diamond 6 before giving up. I don't get enough enjoyment to continue the grind.

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My favorite thing is watching people try to claim that there's more competition now, and that's why less people are playing Halo. No, you dummy, there was always competition for Halo. It just didn't seem like there was competition because Halo, when done right, is just fucking better than the competition. But now that the devs have dropped the ball on 3 main title games in an effort to turn the series into its inferior competition, and completely scammed what's left of their loyal audience on that Frankstein box set, now people have jumped ship to these other franchises. Gee, what a funny little coincidence! The marketplace must be getting really crowded and competitive huh! Smack dat liek button!

 

I always have to wonder how they're defining "competition".

 

The original Xbox had over a thousand games, majority of which at least had offline multiplayer, many of which were Xbox Live compatible.  Not that there would be any need to limit competition to xbox live games since plenty of people still used splitscreen or didn't have adequate internet for xbox live.

 

Even so I could still list off several OG Xbox games that had xbox live.  Hell even the original CoD games had Xbox Live and Halo trashed them.

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If I didn't get cut off all the time in game chat, i wouldn't need party chat.  I am all for forcing game chat in ranked playlists, but only if they make the chat work better first.

Well yeah, that's a given. I've tried to educate people about the issues plaguing voice chat in Halo and WHY it's an important discussion to have...

 

OH WAIT, A MASTER CHIEF PICTURE SOMEONE'S "GIRLFRIEND" MADE!?! OMG 48,473,545 UPVOTES!!!

 

And that's why we can't have nice things.

 

 

My favorite thing is watching people try to claim that there's more competition now, and that's why less people are playing Halo. No, you dummy, there was always competition for Halo. It just didn't seem like there was competition because Halo, when done right, is just fucking better than the competition. But now that the devs have dropped the ball on 3 main title games in an effort to turn the series into its inferior competition, and completely scammed what's left of their loyal audience on that Frankstein box set, now people have jumped ship to these other franchises. Gee, what a funny little coincidence! The marketplace must be getting really crowded and competitive huh! Smack dat liek button!

 

I think you're being intellectually dishonest here.

 

Of course there was competition for Halo. Hell, Quake and UT were still relevant when Halo was out.

 

But when we say "competition" we're referring to competing FPS titles on consoles that DON'T SUCK.

 

Before CoD came along there was really no other decent FPS on console. Try to name one. We had Unreal Championship games which was basically just inferior console versions of the PC games and almost impossible to play with a joystick and what else? SOCOM on Playstation? The only FPS doing well at the time of Halo 3's launch was probably Counter Strike on PC since arena FPS games weren't doing too well by then.

 

Of course, the Halo series getting worse is going to cause players to leave, but honestly, if 343 basically released Halo 6: Evolved with a TSK starting weapon, fast movement speed, no sprint, etc, etc, I still don't think the masses would choose that sort of game over Overwatch or whatever the latest flavour of the month is.

 

When Halo 3 was super popular a lot of those players stuck around because there was really no where else to go that offered a decent experience. That's why BTB and SWAT and similar playlists were so popular.

 

Enter Modern Warfare with instant kill times, easy to understand weapons and most importantly, an addictive progression system and of course casual gamers are going to choose that over an FPS that has its roots in classic arena FPS and requires you to maintain a steady aim and map knowledge in order to get kills.

 

It just didn't seem like there was competition because Halo, when done right, is just fucking better than the competition

 

I think it's the other way around.

 

It didn't seem like there was competition because the competition was HORRIBLE. UT3 on PS3? Hahahaha, the very idea of UT on a joystick is laughable.

 

Enter Modern Warfare. Suddenly there is competition. And the competition is REALLY FUCKING GOOD. The controls are tight and responsive and Halo 3's garbage frame rate looks like a freakin' slide show after playing 20 minutes of CoD.

 

Sure, you can argue Halo was better than the competition but that gap between Halo and other FPS sure as hell got smaller and some of these games offer a better experience for casual players and that absolutely cannot be denied.

 

Look at the popularity of Overwatch. You can't even see the K:D ratio for other players on the scoreboard because they want everyone to feel special. That's the way the industry is heading and like it or not, now WE are the niche audience.

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The competition argument doesn't go far.

 

Halo 3's population numbers went toe to toe with Modern Warfare, WAW, and MW2. Over the course of three years it kept strong against the new COD games, often rising above them once their initial release hype went away. This is extremely impressive. It was only when Reach came out that COD truly took over Halo.

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I think you're being intellectually dishonest here.

 

Of course there was competition for Halo. Hell, Quake and UT were still relevant when Halo was out.

 

But when we say "competition" we're referring to competing FPS titles on consoles that DON'T SUCK.

 

Before CoD came along there was really no other decent FPS on console. Try to name one. We had Unreal Championship games which was basically just inferior console versions of the PC games and almost impossible to play with a joystick and what else? SOCOM on Playstation? The only FPS doing well at the time of Halo 3's launch was probably Counter Strike on PC since arena FPS games weren't doing too well by then.

 

Of course, the Halo series getting worse is going to cause players to leave, but honestly, if 343 basically released Halo 6: Evolved with a TSK starting weapon, fast movement speed, no sprint, etc, etc, I still don't think the masses would choose that sort of game over Overwatch or whatever the latest flavour of the month is.

 

When Halo 3 was super popular a lot of those players stuck around because there was really no where else to go that offered a decent experience. That's why BTB and SWAT and similar playlists were so popular.

 

Enter Modern Warfare with instant kill times, easy to understand weapons and most importantly, an addictive progression system and of course casual gamers are going to choose that over an FPS that has its roots in classic arena FPS and requires you to maintain a steady aim and map knowledge in order to get kills.

 

 

I think it's the other way around.

 

It didn't seem like there was competition because the competition was HORRIBLE. UT3 on PS3? Hahahaha, the very idea of UT on a joystick is laughable.

 

Enter Modern Warfare. Suddenly there is competition. And the competition is REALLY FUCKING GOOD. The controls are tight and responsive and Halo 3's garbage frame rate looks like a freakin' slide show after playing 20 minutes of CoD.

 

Sure, you can argue Halo was better than the competition but that gap between Halo and other FPS sure as hell got smaller and some of these games offer a better experience for casual players and that absolutely cannot be denied.

 

Look at the popularity of Overwatch. You can't even see the K:D ratio for other players on the scoreboard because they want everyone to feel special. That's the way the industry is heading and like it or not, now WE are the niche audience.

 

Most of this is just proving my point.

 

"There was no competition, because the competition was horrible!" In comparison to Halo, yes it was horrible. Halo Done RightTM left the entire field in a cloud of dust.

 

The people in charge of Halo had every opportunity to counter what Modern Warfare brought to the table. They didn't. Bungie/343/Microsoft decided that instead of making use of improvements like 60 fps, better controls, spectator mode, and the like while keeping intact the game design that got them to this point in the first place, what Halo really needed to keep up was to ditch that fundamental gameplay formula in favor of the generic CoD/class shooter formula, but include none of the of the aforementioned shiny technological advances that casuals are actually drawn to. And that was really fucking stupid of them. Halo took a dive against its competition, not the other way around.

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These suggestions to force players out of party chat are ridiculous. If a player doesn't want to talk to you, there is absolutely no conceivable way you can force them to. Discord also happens to exist, so at best you'll mildly inconvenience players and gain absolutely nothing in return for it.

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My favorite thing is watching people try to claim that there's more competition now, and that's why less people are playing Halo.

They're 343 apologists and will use every excuse in the book as to why 343 has failed miserably with the Halo franchise. They will never own up the fact that 343's Halo games just flat out suck and that is biggest reason people don't play them. I still play Reach BTB(which is TU) to get my Halo fix in. Although it has it's flaws, it's tons more fun than anything 343 has offered, plus I can still find games very quickly(usually less than 1 minute), thanks to Reach's slick UI and matchmaking system.

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They're 343 apologists and will use every excuse in the book as to why 343 has failed miserably with the Halo franchise. They will never own up the fact that 343's Halo games just flat out suck and that is biggest reason people don't play them. I still play Reach BTB(which is TU) to get my Halo fix in. Although it has it's flaws, it's tons more fun than anything 343 has offered, plus I can still find games very quickly(usually less than 1 minute), thanks to Reach's slick UI and matchmaking system.

Lol.

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Most of this is just proving my point.

 

"There was no competition, because the competition was horrible!" In comparison to Halo, yes it was horrible. Halo Done RightTM left the entire field in a cloud of dust.

Uh... Not really. My point was that other games got better. Halo done right left the competition in the dust because the competition at the time was shit. It wasn't "shit in comparison to Halo". It was just shit. Like I said, name a single FPS on console besides Halo that wasn't awful or a crappy PC port that played 10X's better on PC. They didn't exist.

 

The competition is no longer shit. The competition is tight, responsive and most importantly ADDICTIVE.

 

Like I said, if Halo 1 was re-released right this second with online play, all the bugs fixed you wouldn't have players flocking from BF1, CoD and Overwatch to play Halo 1. If you think the average gamer is going to stop playing Overwatch - a game that rewards you for pressing a single button to kill the entire enemy team, or CoD, a game where you can go 20:0 by camping in a corner with a shotgun, then I'm really not sure what to tell you.

 

These suggestions to force players out of party chat are ridiculous. If a player doesn't want to talk to you, there is absolutely no conceivable way you can force them to. Discord also happens to exist, so at best you'll mildly inconvenience players and gain absolutely nothing in return for it.

 

You don't need to FORCE players out of party chat, you just strongly encourage them to join team chat. Like the Overwatch dev said, they're not going to force players in Overwatch to join team chat, they're just going to very strongly encourage them to by displaying a large prompt and making it very easy for players to switch chat channels. Or you do what CoD used to do and don't allow party chat in ranked matches.

 

And honestly, why wouldn't you? It's a team game and if you don't communicate with your team you have more chance of losing. Most people don't like losing so it only makes sense to join team chat if offered the opportunity, especially in a ranked game.

 

You're also completely ignoring the fact that most people are lazy. Only the most hardcore players are going to bother setting up a Discord channel when they could just use the games in built system. Obviously Halo 5's inbuilt chat system is garbage which is what causes everyone to use party chat to begin with, so that needs to be fixed. If it was fixed however I'd like to see the game encourage team chat over party chat.

 

Lack of communication in the game = no community = dying online population. It's all connected.

 

 

They're 343 apologists and will use every excuse in the book as to why 343 has failed miserably with the Halo franchise. They will never own up the fact that 343's Halo games just flat out suck and that is biggest reason people don't play them. I still play Reach BTB(which is TU) to get my Halo fix in. Although it has it's flaws, it's tons more fun than anything 343 has offered, plus I can still find games very quickly(usually less than 1 minute), thanks to Reach's slick UI and matchmaking system.

 

I'm a 343 apologist? Might want to rethink that one...

 

Some of us are just more aware of what happens in the gaming industry than others.

 

Want to remind me how many good quality free to play games were around before Halo 3?

 

The industry has changed. If you honestly think the same games we played 10 years ago would sell the same amount of copies now you're insane.

 

There's a reason pretty much every single game in existence now has random unlocks, progression bars, lottery systems, etc. There's a reason every game now emphasises team work over individual skill. There's a reason in the past 3 years we've had more MOBA games released than in the entire history of gaming.

 

BECAUSE IT SELLS.

 

And by the way, I'm not saying 343 games are better than Bungie games (Both devs made the games progressively worse), I'm saying the average gamer doesn't care about a good competitive game. Go use the internet archive and look at what casual players were saying about Halo 2 "OMG DUAL WIELDING IS AWESOME!!!"

 

The quality of a game has absolutely zero correlation with it's popularity, in the same way that Justin Beiber topping the charts doesn't make him the most amazing musician in the world.

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I just wanted to throw in my two cents on whats's being discussed on the last couple of pages as someone who is much more of a casual gamer these days, but has been a Halo player since the beginning of 3.

 

I'm not buying the argument that Halo's decrease in popularity (or at least to the point it is right now) is solely down to the competition being stronger than it was 10 years ago, there are just a LOT of little things that all add up. 343 should have built upon the strong foundation they had with Halo 3, but they didn't, they seem to have been intent on rebuilding the whole game from the ground up in their own image.

 

Pyroteq makes good points about emphasis on teamwork in shooters. Halo 3 had this nailed down, the ranking system was designed so that you only gained EXP if your team won the match, the in-game scoreboard did not show individual K/D but instead showed stats that were relevant to that gametype like kills for slayer and captures for CTF. In fact, your overall K/D wasn't even displayed in game, you had to go onto the Bungie website to see this. Fast forward to now and look at Social Skirmish for example, for what reason does your average player have to not focus on their own personal stats the entire game? There is no incentive, you still get your REQ points either way. I see a huge difference in the way people play objective games in Halo 5 compared to 3, there is far less teamwork nowadays because 343 plaster your overall KD everywhere they can. One of the big selling points about Halo used to be that it was a game that hugely emphasised teamwork over individual accolades.

 

Halo 5 needed a ranked and social split from the beginning. I feel the state of the game at launch has had a huge impact on the overall popularity up until this point, it was far too focused on e-sports, there has to be a balance. Overwatch has quick play and competitive (also an arcade mode where stats aren't tracked, it's just pure fun), Rainbow Six Siege has ranked and unranked (unranked doesn't track stats, seeing a pattern yet?). These games are succeeding because they have got the balance right for ALL types of players, 343 has not done that with Halo and only the recent update has taken steps to fix this. 

 

Another thing I want to touch upon is the sense of community, again I'll be using other games for comparison. Overwatch has a christmas event going on, with winter loot boxes and themed maps. Destiny has The Dawning, another christmas themed event. Modern Warfare Remastered has added a Winter Crash map to one of their playlists, I think it may even be a 24/7 thing (correct me if I'm wrong I don't have the game). Little things like this go a long way in modern multiplayer games because they build a sense of community. What exactly has Halo 5 got going on this month? Oh right yeah, they added a "winter" playlist which is essentially "please beta test our competitive settings/maps". 

 

On the subject of community, again let's go back to Halo 5's launch. Where was forge? Where was infection? Where was grifball? Seriously, the forge/customs community, the grifball community, machinima etc. they are all a huge part of what Halo 3 was. 343 eliminated a huge percentage of the population by not having these in the game at launch. 

 

If Halo 5 had released in it's current state, especially with the customs server browser, I think the popularity of the game would be in a much better place. It seems however that instead of building on what people loved about the classic Halo games, they spent so much time rebuilding everything from the ground up and quite frankly it resulted in a half baked, overly competitive Halo game that took itself far too seriously. I could go on for much longer about things that I would have changed about Halo 5, but I will stop rambling now.

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Wait you're saying that when Halo struggles to get all of the features that it had 9 years ago and disappoints fans from the release of Reach to present that somehow its doing worse comparatively? Who'd have thought. 

 

Most of the industry has been moving forward and becoming better at creating addictive experiences while Halo has been driving itself into the ground. Halo 3 would be successful today. I'd even say it would have more of a niche and complete feature set than Halo 5 does. It wouldn't be as successful as it was in 2007 though. Why? The competition was fucking trash leading up to that point. How far ahead of everything on console was Halo 2? Would it still be that far ahead today? No. We don't just play Halo because its the only quality experience available these days. Everyone learned from that. That's why we have the friends list features we use on XBL. Halo was the blueprint that everyone now knows about. The current state of affairs is a combination of other developers catching on to some degree and extremely terrible decisions on the part of the Halo developers that lead to how things are now. Unfortunately one of the biggest assets that Halo 3 had was the hype and goodwill gained through Halo CE and then Halo 2. Halo 6 just inherits the MCC disaster and lukewarm response to Halo 5. They have a really long way to go if they ever want a Halo game to be that successful again. They will have to release multiple titles in a row that are amazing to build that kind of trust back up. 

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So I was playing WZFF on temple and I was the top player w/ 60 something kills. No betrayals the whole match so far. I get to the Warden, still top player, so I spawn in a Banshee and pick off minions using banshee rolls while pelting the Warden with fuel rods. I do a banshee roll near where the Warden is and two teammates jump into me causing betrayals in quick succession. Booted. I know I've said I had given up on this game, and I even uninstalled it at one point, but as an avid Halo fan since I was 4 as CE released, it's pretty hard for me to quit a Halo game, I keep coming back. Idk man, last night playing and having that happen, that was the cutoff point for me, not because that moment alone, but the culmination of BS Halo fans have had to endure since Halo 4, if they even stuck around. I don't even want to play any Halo games anymore. At least not for half a year. 343's design decisions have finally killed any passion I have left for this franchise. I really hope that they can do good with H6.

 

I know it's just a video game but Halo has been such a significant part of my growing up. It was a huge way for me and my brothers to bond; some of my fondest memories are playing 3 player splitscreen Slayer on Blood Gulch. We never actually played a proper match, instead we'd sacrifice one of ourselves so that we could lob plasma grenades at the body at the same time to see how high it would fly, or we'd get ghosts and do tricks off a Scorpion and crash Warthogs into each other with Halo CE's wonky physics. These good memories extended up until even Reach like messing around with our self made, terribly designed Forge maps, or playing splitscreen Infection. (I didn't even like Reach when it came out and still had tons of fun. I can't even begin to tell you how much SC coop campaign we've played since CE. Some ridiculous amount of days in total, probably.

 

 

As it stands 343, this franchise is no better than dead to me. I'll come back whenever you decide to actually make Halo games and not the terrible Frankenstein amalgamations of gimmicks you took from other competing shooters. For now, you've lost a long standing customer.

 

Oh, and show your team of artists a fucking art book from past Halos.

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Well yeah, that's a given. I've tried to educate people about the issues plaguing voice chat in Halo and WHY it's an important discussion to have...

 

OH WAIT, A MASTER CHIEF PICTURE SOMEONE'S "GIRLFRIEND" MADE!?! OMG 48,473,545 UPVOTES!!!

 

And that's why we can't have nice things.

 

 

 

I think you're being intellectually dishonest here.

 

Of course there was competition for Halo. Hell, Quake and UT were still relevant when Halo was out.

 

But when we say "competition" we're referring to competing FPS titles on consoles that DON'T SUCK.

 

Before CoD came along there was really no other decent FPS on console. Try to name one. We had Unreal Championship games which was basically just inferior console versions of the PC games and almost impossible to play with a joystick and what else? SOCOM on Playstation? The only FPS doing well at the time of Halo 3's launch was probably Counter Strike on PC since arena FPS games weren't doing too well by then.

 

Of course, the Halo series getting worse is going to cause players to leave, but honestly, if 343 basically released Halo 6: Evolved with a TSK starting weapon, fast movement speed, no sprint, etc, etc, I still don't think the masses would choose that sort of game over Overwatch or whatever the latest flavour of the month is.

 

When Halo 3 was super popular a lot of those players stuck around because there was really no where else to go that offered a decent experience. That's why BTB and SWAT and similar playlists were so popular.

 

Enter Modern Warfare with instant kill times, easy to understand weapons and most importantly, an addictive progression system and of course casual gamers are going to choose that over an FPS that has its roots in classic arena FPS and requires you to maintain a steady aim and map knowledge in order to get kills.

 

 

I think it's the other way around.

 

It didn't seem like there was competition because the competition was HORRIBLE. UT3 on PS3? Hahahaha, the very idea of UT on a joystick is laughable.

 

Enter Modern Warfare. Suddenly there is competition. And the competition is REALLY FUCKING GOOD. The controls are tight and responsive and Halo 3's garbage frame rate looks like a freakin' slide show after playing 20 minutes of CoD.

 

Sure, you can argue Halo was better than the competition but that gap between Halo and other FPS sure as hell got smaller and some of these games offer a better experience for casual players and that absolutely cannot be denied.

 

Look at the popularity of Overwatch. You can't even see the K:D ratio for other players on the scoreboard because they want everyone to feel special. That's the way the industry is heading and like it or not, now WE are the niche audience.

This is revisionist history.

 

Look at the XBL charts. The only new franchises you will see in the XBL top 20 are minecraft, destiny, overwatch and rocket league. The other 15+ franchises are all franchises that existed during the time of H2/3. And the new ones are offset by older franchises that used to be incredibly popular but died off like rock band, guitar hero, TF, Rainbow Six, etc

 

Sure there are more games in the FPS genre but generally speaking people don't ONLY play FPS games. A game like minecraft or back in 07 Rock Band are much bigger threats to Halo's population than Titanfall will ever be.

 

The only difference between now and 10 years ago is that all these franchises have improved while Halo has degraded. This is what has caused the drop in population. Not the mythical "competition increase". The competition is the same. Halo's place within the competition is what has changed.

 

Hell even if there has been an increase in competition(there hasn't AAA game development costs have skyrocketed causing less and less AAA games to be created per year) this is easily offset by growth of attach rate to XBL gold and the raw growth of xbox ownership.

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My favorite thing is watching people try to claim that there's more competition now, and that's why less people are playing Halo. No, you dummy, there was always competition for Halo. It just didn't seem like there was competition because Halo, when done right, is just fucking better than the competition. But now that the devs have dropped the ball on 3 main title games in an effort to turn the series into its inferior competition, and completely scammed what's left of their loyal audience on that Frankstein box set, now people have jumped ship to these other franchises. Gee, what a funny little coincidence! The marketplace must be getting really crowded and competitive huh! Smack dat liek button!

Thisthisthisthis

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This game has the shittiest looking armor in halo

lol surely uve seen Halo 4's
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lol surely uve seen Halo 4's

Yeah Halo 5's is definitely worse.

 

Some of Halo 4's armour had the so bad it's good excuse, or even was just passable. And, for the most part, they at least looked like a bunch of cohesive armours with a unified art style.

 

Halo 5 armour doesn't even manage that

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Even though the graphics discussion dwindled a few pages back, I have to post this. These are some screenshots I took of the PC version when it released. Compare the min and max screenshots; they have minimal differences and both manage to look like ass.

 

Honestly, I can't take anyone who says H5's graphics are good when 343i can't even implement texture filtering correctly. It's damn near non existent on XONE, and even AFx16 on PC does jack shit because it is broken.

 

 

 

Min

qVbQGn4.jpg

Max

uYO721w.jpg

Min

mRgabyr.jpg

Max

Fw3TXUR.jpg

Min
 

Lh4eAoO.jpg

Max

 

GIRsrZC.jpg

 

 

 

 

Here are the texture filtering screenshots. It seems like anisotropic filtering is either broken, or terribly implemented. It seems to be doing nothing.

 

QLVqtwf.jpg

 

G6IWsMM.jpg

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Halo 4 can't match the boundless majesty that is the seeker armor set.

 

 

FTFY

 

Neither of you two heretics have paid proper homage to the glorious Tracer Jackpoint helmet. Truly the king of all helmets.

 

tumblr_o1mo59265V1ultuumo3_1280.jpg

 

When you're not providing a nice bullseye for your enemy to aim at, it doubles as a watering can for your garden!

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you know, you're right. Its just such a great helmet, and its HUD is even better! I can finally see 7 things at a time now!

lS9E8M4.jpg

(Credits to @ for this new hot meme)

This is f'n perfect.

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The industry has changed. If you honestly think the same games we played 10 years ago would sell the same amount of copies now you're insane.

I'm a diehard Halo player who has rejected 343's Halo games, not because the industry has changed, but because of how poor their Halo games have been.

 

Would a quality Halo title sell as much as 10 years ago or even just 4 years ago(hype alone for Halo 4 helped that game sell many millions)? I do not know. However, I do know that a quality Halo title would sure as hell sell a lot more and maintain a higher population than a low quality Halo like Halo 5. It's quite plausible that a new quality Halo title could catch like wildfire and sell many, many millions.

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