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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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I don't think it's an unfair assessment at all. I cannot think of one thing that Halo 5 does better or even on the same level as Reach, not one thing. I consider myself a "true" Halo player as I've played many, many thousands of games of Halo 2, Halo 3, and way, way too much Reach(don't have a new Halo game to move on to). Now, think to yourself....why is it that someone who has played many thousands of games of Halo 2, 3, and Reach cannot tolerate Halo 4 or Halo 5? Is it that I'm biased(for no reason at all) or is that Halo 4 and Halo 5 just flat out suck? H5's ghost handling feels unrealistic and unbalanced compared to Reach's perfect ghost. But how about that Halo 5 wraith? What a piece of work that thing is.

The fact that you are unwilling to admit that Halo 3 is broken in some key ways definitely makes you seem biased, as does the fact that you trust Bungie to do a H3 remaster and fix its multiplayer problems (after playing crucible, I wouldn't trust them to make solitaire correctly). The closest that you've gotten to saying that the Halo 3 BR is broken is when you've said that it being broken adds "depth". I'll give you Halo 4, but the common consensus seems to be that Halo 5 has several things that it does much better than Reach (no bloom and equal starts being the biggies).
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How is it a garbage map when its one of the most popular BTB maps? What makes it garbage?

 

 

Popularity doesn't always translate to quality, especially in my dark, bleak worldview. ;)

 

Its garbage primarily because it lacks at least some division between vehicle pathways and infantry pathways, and this is actually fairly important in Halo 3, considering the BR's limitations and the lack of paper mache vehicles. Although it wasn't amazingly expressed in primary competitors like Sandtrap, Valhalla, Avalanche and Last Resort, they still did a decent job of giving infantry mobility and something to focus on if they lacked a power weapon or vehicle. I still think Halo 3's BTB is one of the best in the series, but Standoff isn't a good example of its strengths imo.

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The fact that you are unwilling to admit that Halo 3 is broken in some key ways definitely makes you seem biased, as does the fact that you trust Bungie to do a H3 remaster and fix its multiplayer problems (after playing crucible, I wouldn't trust them to make solitaire correctly). The closest that you've gotten to saying that the Halo 3 BR is broken is when you've said that it being broken adds "depth". I'll give you Halo 4, but the common consensus seems to be that Halo 5 has several things that it does much better than Reach (no bloom and equal starts being the biggies).

Of course there are things I would fix or improve upon in Halo 3. Slightly upped base movement, BR consistency, better physics, better netcode, FOV...just off the top of my head. When I say the H3 BR has depth, I mean that you have to really know how to lead your shots, which varies depending of how far away your opponent is away from you. Burst fire adds more depth to that because the better you lead your shots, the greater chance you have of landing more bullets. Not only that, but you actually have to land your shots for them to register. Despite Halo 3's flaws, I can tolerate them enough to enjoy playing the game, especially when it came to H3 BTB. I even tolerate the bigger flaws in Reach to enjoy BTB on that game, but it's very close to my "bullshit threshold". However, the flaws in H4 and H5 are so great and vast, there is no way I could ever enjoy those games.

 

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Popularity doesn't always translate to quality, especially in my dark, bleak worldview. ;)

 

Its garbage primarily because it lacks at least some division between vehicle pathways and infantry pathways, and this is actually fairly important in Halo 3, considering the BR's limitations and the lack of paper mache vehicles. Although it wasn't amazingly expressed in primary competitors like Sandtrap, Valhalla, Avalanche and Last Resort, they still did a decent job of giving infantry mobility and something to focus on if they lacked a power weapon or vehicle. I still think Halo 3's BTB is one of the best in the series, but Standoff isn't a good example of its strengths imo.

It seemed fine to me and worked great with the hogs either side. Maybe the hogs were a little too easy to use on Standoff, but as far as I know the BTB community would consider it as one of the best BTB maps ever made in Halo.

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When I say the H3 BR has depth, I mean that you have to really know how to lead your shots, which varies depending of how far away your opponent is away from you. Burst fire adds more depth to that because the better you lead your shots, the greater chance you have of landing more bullets. Not only that, but you actually have to land your shots for them to register. 

Except the burst fire qualities create inconsistency, not depth, because you can't "control" the burst in the same way you could a single shot weapon. Hence "greater chance" of landing more bullets. Not a concrete "you will" land more bullets. The first bullet will hit where you aim, the rest scatter like embers in the wind, no matter how skilled you are.

 

And how in the actual hell was your last point something you wrote with serious consideration? "You actually have to land your shots for them to register". Really. I thought if I just aimed off target, my shots would reg just fine. That's a trait that goes for anything offensive in any game. You have to land it, for it to register. And on a related note, the ease or difficulty of being able to land the shot isn't depth. And if you want a proper example of projectile leading, look to CE. Because Halo 3's shot lead doesn't add depth, it adds frustration with the spread present, if anything, just showing how depthless the BR is. Randomness isn't depth.

 

The Halo 3 BR is basically everything that could go wrong with the CE Magnum. It's literally a near tangible nightmare. Weaponized digital bleach. There's nothing depthful about it.

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Except the burst fire qualities create inconsistency, not depth, because you can't "control" the burst in the same way you could a single shot weapon. Hence "greater chance" of landing more bullets. Not a concrete "you will" land more bullets. The first bullet will hit where you aim, the rest scatter like embers in the wind, no matter how skilled you are.

 

And how in the actual hell was your last point something you wrote with serious consideration? "You actually have to land your shots for them to register". Really. I thought if I just aimed off target, my shots would reg just fine. That's a trait that goes for anything offensive in any game. You have to land it, for it to register. And on a related note, the ease or difficulty of being able to land the shot isn't depth. And if you want a proper example of projectile leading, look to CE. Because Halo 3's shot lead doesn't add depth, it adds frustration with the spread present, if anything, just showing how depthless the BR is. Randomness isn't depth.

 

The Halo 3 BR is basically everything that could go wrong with the CE Magnum. It's literally a near tangible nightmare. Weaponized digital bleach. There's nothing depthful about it.

I feel like its kind of important to include the map and settings when talking about the H3 BR. The MLG settings changed the game as far as what good shots with that gun were compared to default and while the gun could get very random at certain distances there are a lot of maps that when played at a high level those ranges never actually occurred. The outrage over how random the gun is has been over dramatic for nearly a decade at this point. 

 

Like twice in my entire life I've 4'd someone from cannon to cannon on Narrows and I shit bricks when it happened but at the same time you're never going to sit on S3 and try to 4 someone top gold on Guardian because you'd just die from a nade from top blue or someone lifting up to S3 or get peeled or naded from everywhere on the map for standing in the middle of top gold like a jackass. In BTB or default H3 though? It was fucking terrible because you had to hit headshots and the random bullet might actually matter at closer ranges.

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Ahh, I'd missed the H3 BR discussions  :kappa:

 

sort of pissed that I made Diamond a week before reset, and will probably get placed in plat again  :mj:

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Except the burst fire qualities create inconsistency, not depth, because you can't "control" the burst in the same way you could a single shot weapon. Hence "greater chance" of landing more bullets. Not a concrete "you will" land more bullets. The first bullet will hit where you aim, the rest scatter like embers in the wind, no matter how skilled you are.

 

And how in the actual hell was your last point something you wrote with serious consideration? "You actually have to land your shots for them to register". Really. I thought if I just aimed off target, my shots would reg just fine. That's a trait that goes for anything offensive in any game. You have to land it, for it to register. And on a related note, the ease or difficulty of being able to land the shot isn't depth. And if you want a proper example of projectile leading, look to CE. Because Halo 3's shot lead doesn't add depth, it adds frustration with the spread present, if anything, just showing how depthless the BR is. Randomness isn't depth.

 

The Halo 3 BR is basically everything that could go wrong with the CE Magnum. It's literally a near tangible nightmare. Weaponized digital bleach. There's nothing depthful about it.

I get it, you're terrible with the H3 BR and lack an understanding of it's depth, so every time you get out-BRed, it's because of randomness and not you sucking with it. If you lead your shots better and your aim is better than your opponents', then you are going to win the battle more than 9 out of 10 times. Yes, there is some randomness involved, but not to the degree that you or the other H3 haters make it out to be.

 

My point of having to land your shots for them to register is a jab at 343's Halo games, specifically Halo 5, where shots will register rather you really hit the guy or not. How many trades happen in H5 BTB? I imagine quite a few as it's BR has 0 depth and every shot registers no matter what.

 

I can see why kids who got trounced on in Halo 3 love Halo 5 so much. It's the perfect "everybody is a winner" FPS.

 

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I get it, you're terrible with the H3 BR and lack an understanding of it's depth, so every time you get out-BRed, it's because of randomness and not you sucking with it. If you lead your shots better and your aim is better than your opponents', then you are going to win the battle more than 9 out of 10 times. Yes, there is some randomness involved, but not to the degree that you or the other H3 haters make it out to be.

 

My point of having to land your shots for them to register is a jab at 343's Halo games, specifically Halo 5, where shots will register rather you really hit the guy or not. How many trades happen in H5 BTB? I imagine quite a few as it's BR has 0 depth and every shot registers no matter what.

 

I can see why kids who got trounced on in Halo 3 love Halo 5 so much. It's the perfect "everybody is a winner" FPS.

 

The "you are terrible with this so you don't like it" argument is so old and bullshit.  Its the argument used by people that are trying to convince themselves they are right more than others.  The H3 hit detection system is awful. slow projectiles + random spread + Latency = bullshit.  You have to lead your shots in every game to some degree based on range and latency already.  Feeling out the server and latency to correct for that is a skill in itself.  But at least its something you can replicate consistently if you are good.  The H3 BR is not that way.  All those variables make it a random mess of a weapon, (yet still the best overall weapon in the game, go figure).

 

"If you lead your shots better and your aim is better than your opponents', then you are going to win the battle more than 9 out of 10 times." in and of itself is a bullshit statement.  If that's the case for your battles, you should win 10 out of 10 times period, provided you both are starting with the same amount of shield.

 

I played the shit out of Halo 3 and had fun with it, but if i'm going back to play halo im going to H1 or H2, not H3.

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I get it, you're terrible with the H3 BR and lack an understanding of it's depth, so every time you get out-BRed, it's because of randomness and not you sucking with it. If you lead your shots better and your aim is better than your opponents', then you are going to win the battle more than 9 out of 10 times. Yes, there is some randomness involved, but not to the degree that you or the other H3 haters make it out to be.

 

My point of having to land your shots for them to register is a jab at 343's Halo games, specifically Halo 5, where shots will register rather you really hit the guy or not. How many trades happen in H5 BTB? I imagine quite a few as it's BR has 0 depth and every shot registers no matter what.

 

I can see why kids who got trounced on in Halo 3 love Halo 5 so much. It's the perfect "everybody is a winner" FPS.

 

I get it, you're terrible with the H5 Magnum and lack an understanding of its skill, so every time you get out-shotted, it's because of easiness and not you sucking with it. If you practiced your shots better and your aim is better than your opponents', then you are going to win the battle 10 out of 10 times. Yes, there is easiness involved, but not to the degree that you or others make it out to be.

 

My point of having to aim your shots is a jab at Bungie's Halo games, specifically Halo 3, where shots will randomly not register when you actually hit the guy. How many trades happen in H3 BTB? I imagine few as its BR has random spread and many shots disappear for no reason.

 

I can see why kids who got trounced on in Halo 5 love Halo 3 so much. It's the perfect "everybody is incompetent" FPS.

 

Did I do this right?

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I feel like its kind of important to include the map and settings when talking about the H3 BR. The MLG settings changed the game as far as what good shots with that gun were compared to default and while the gun could get very random at certain distances there are a lot of maps that when played at a high level those ranges never actually occurred. The outrage over how random the gun is has been over dramatic for nearly a decade at this point. 

 

Like twice in my entire life I've 4'd someone from cannon to cannon on Narrows and I shit bricks when it happened but at the same time you're never going to sit on S3 and try to 4 someone top gold on Guardian because you'd just die from a nade from top blue or someone lifting up to S3 or get peeled or naded from everywhere on the map for standing in the middle of top gold like a jackass. In BTB or default H3 though? It was fucking terrible because you had to hit headshots and the random bullet might actually matter at closer ranges.

 

Other than playing purely socially, the MLG settings were the only thing that made this game fun to me.  increased damage and speed made the random bullet spread less apparent since you could still 4 someone even if 1 of the bullets randomly decided to fly off into a wall despite perfect aim, and made up for the narrow FoV.

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I get it, you're terrible with the H3 BR and lack an understanding of it's depth, so every time you get out-BRed, it's because of randomness and not you sucking with it. If you lead your shots better and your aim is better than your opponents', then you are going to win the battle more than 9 out of 10 times. Yes, there is some randomness involved, but not to the degree that you or the other H3 haters make it out to be.

 

My point of having to land your shots for them to register is a jab at 343's Halo games, specifically Halo 5, where shots will register rather you really hit the guy or not. How many trades happen in H5 BTB? I imagine quite a few as it's BR has 0 depth and every shot registers no matter what.

 

I can see why kids who got trounced on in Halo 3 love Halo 5 so much. It's the perfect "everybody is a winner" FPS.

 

giphy.gif

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Fuck as someone who can stand to use the h3 br and have fun in that games multiplayer, no it's not a depthful gun, battles at close to mid might be difficult bat that's because of the aiming system that game uses. The spread is a definite problem that nullifies the benefits you'd get from making players lead.

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Fuck as someone who can stand to use the h3 br and have fun in that games multiplayer, no it's not a depthful gun, battles at close to mid might be difficult bat that's because of the aiming system that game uses. The spread is a definite problem that nullifies the benefits you'd get from making players lead.

Underlined is dangerous territory. You could say that about any console game that you can't use a mouse (or whatever) for.

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I get it, you're terrible with the H3 BR and lack an understanding of it's depth, so every time you get out-BRed, it's because of randomness and not you sucking with it. If you lead your shots better and your aim is better than your opponents', then you are going to win the battle more than 9 out of 10 times. Yes, there is some randomness involved, but not to the degree that you or the other H3 haters make it out to be.

 

My point of having to land your shots for them to register is a jab at 343's Halo games, specifically Halo 5, where shots will register rather you really hit the guy or not. How many trades happen in H5 BTB? I imagine quite a few as it's BR has 0 depth and every shot registers no matter what.

 

I can see why kids who got trounced on in Halo 3 love Halo 5 so much. It's the perfect "everybody is a winner" FPS.

 

 

I get it, you're terrible with the H5 Magnum and lack an understanding of its skill, so every time you get out-shotted, it's because of easiness and not you sucking with it. If you practiced your shots better and your aim is better than your opponents', then you are going to win the battle 10 out of 10 times. Yes, there is easiness involved, but not to the degree that you or others make it out to be.

 

My point of having to aim your shots is a jab at Bungie's Halo games, specifically Halo 3, where shots will randomly not register when you actually hit the guy. How many trades happen in H3 BTB? I imagine few as its BR has random spread and many shots disappear for no reason.

 

I can see why kids who got trounced on in Halo 5 love Halo 3 so much. It's the perfect "everybody is incompetent" FPS.

 

Did I do this right?

 
I get it, ya'll are both terrible with the Halo C.E pistol and lack an understanding of it's depth, so every time y'all get 3 shotted, it's because it's too OP and not because you suck with it. If you lead your shots better and your aim is better than your opponents', then you are going to win the battle more than 9 out of 10 times. No, there is no randomness involved, yet still that you or the other Halo C.E. haters make it out to be.
...
 
I can see why kids who got trounced on in Halo C.E love Halo 5 and Halo 3 so much. They're the perfect "takes no skill" FPS.
 
Mines better cockies
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Underlined is dangerous territory. You could say that about any console game that you can't use a mouse (or whatever) for.

yeah but I'm talking about how 3s aiming works against the player with its acceleration. It doesn't "bother" me but it's definitely the cause for the perceived difficulty of gun fights in the game, it has less to do with any one guns individual aiming properties.

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I get it, you're terrible with the H5 Magnum and lack an understanding of its skill, so every time you get out-shotted, it's because of easiness and not you sucking with it. If you practiced your shots better and your aim is better than your opponents', then you are going to win the battle 10 out of 10 times. Yes, there is easiness involved, but not to the degree that you or others make it out to be.

 

My point of having to aim your shots is a jab at Bungie's Halo games, specifically Halo 3, where shots will randomly not register when you actually hit the guy. How many trades happen in H3 BTB? I imagine few as its BR has random spread and many shots disappear for no reason.

 

I can see why kids who got trounced on in Halo 5 love Halo 3 so much. It's the perfect "everybody is incompetent" FPS.

 

Did I do this right?

Everybody is good at H5 as no skill is required and no depth is involved. Kids who were once staff captains are now ultra competitive as there is 0 skill gap to H5. Can't miss rifles and snipers, overpowered autos, a clusterfuck of a weapon sandbox, splinter grenades, horrible vehicle physics, poor maps, terrible game breaking gimmicks....my God, no wonder this game's population is less than 1000. I remember when Halo was good back in the H3 days and a daily population over 1,000,000.

 

Bungie's Halo games are chess and 343's are paper, rock scissors.

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Everybody is good at H5 as no skill is required and no depth is involved. Kids who were once staff captains are now ultra competitive as there is 0 skill gap to H5. Can't miss rifles and snipers, overpowered autos, a clusterfuck of a weapon sandbox, splinter grenades, horrible vehicle physics, poor maps, terrible game breaking gimmicks....my God, no wonder this game's population is less than 1000. I remember when Halo was good back in the H3 days and a daily population over 1,000,000.

 

Bungie's Halo games are chess and 343's are paper, rock scissors.

 

I do not like Halo 5, but you just sound completely fucking ridiculous, dude. Stop throwing around "depth" like the least consistent utility weapon in the entire series embodies it in some meaningful fashion. Halo 3 is the shallowest game of the original trilogy and Bungie's last Halo game was hot garbage (Reach literally has one good playlist).

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CclDf_pWoAAF4EI.jpg

 

People are playing rock paper scissors, but I've been playing chess for years

this dude is scary. I'm sticking to Chinese checkers.

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CclDf_pWoAAF4EI.jpg

 

People are playing rock paper scissors, but I've been playing chess for years

How can I win if you NEVER MOVE YOU BACK ROW!

 

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What was the Halo level that you had defend Dr. Halsey down in a huge underground cave?  That mission popped into my mind last night.  That was a fun level. 

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What was the Halo level that you had defend Dr. Halsey down in a huge underground cave? That mission popped into my mind last night. That was a fun level.

The Package from Halo Reach. Then after that you bomb the shit out of Sword Base.
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