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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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... Do you need something?

 

Nope. Not sure why you negged me for that. I read your posts thoroughly before responding. I'm saying "K" because I'm not sure what I missed but I don't feel like getting into it with you.

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Theoretical modding discussion? AND NOBODY INVITED ME?

 

 

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. By a scope for the autos I don't mean the ones in Halo 3 where it really is just a visor zoom (you scope out when you fire and the gun's reticle doesn't appear, instead replaced by two spinning circles). When I say zoom I mean like the BR has, but for the AR. You said it could potentially give a higher RRR, which would be more accuracy, right? If you say yes, then that proves my point, which is this: zoom and smart-scope are functionally identical. This whole hypothetical scenario I set up was my deduction. If zoom would increase accuracy for autos, then complaining about smart-scope doing the same would be pointless.

 

No, they're still not functionally identical. Zoom is simply multiplying the range at which magnetism and autoaim can help you. Smart scope increases the accuracy across the board. Smart scoped AR's are significantly better at cross mapping than a theoretical scoped AR...otherwise known as the Halo 3 ODST SMG.

 

 

Halo 5 is the ONLY Halo game where any accuracy bonus is given while zooming/ADS. I'm sure if Bungie did add a zoom to the AR they would not have given it an accuracy bonus. We know for a fact that people did ask for zooms on every gun, and they gave it to us with Halo 3, but the zoom was purely aesthetic and not very functional. You could zoom in but there was no reticle and no accuracy bonus. You immediately scoped out as you fired the first shot.

 

This is not completely correct. Weapon tags in Halo 1 have a flag under triggers called "use error when unzoomed". This flag is specifically why the Halo 1 sniper rifle has somewhat noticeable spread when unzoomed, and absolutely none when it is zoomed. The Halo 2 Sniper Rifle and Beam Rifle also have this flag activated. It should be noted, however, this flag isn't used with any non-sniper weaponry, to my knowledge.

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Nope. Not sure why you negged me for that. I read your posts thoroughly before responding. I'm saying "K" because I'm not sure what I missed but I don't feel like getting into it with you.

I negged you because I explicitly argued against the shit that you claimed I'm saying.

 

PS3 sales versus Xbox sales, yada yada yada, none of that means anything. The only thing that matters is the Xbox One's user-base and the Xbox 360's user-based at the release of Halo 5 and Halo 3 respectively.

Put it simply, I don't like people putting words in my mouth. It's a completely stupid and baffling idea that I chewed out Dev for, and yet here you are trying to act like I support it.

 

You clearly didn't read my posts thoroughly, because if you did, you would have realized that you made the same mistake three times.

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Okay, now we're getting somewhere. By a scope for the autos I don't mean the ones in Halo 3 where it really is just a visor zoom (you scope out when you fire and the gun's reticle doesn't appear, instead replaced by two spinning circles). When I say zoom I mean like the BR has, but for the AR. You said it could potentially give a higher RRR, which would be more accuracy, right? If you say yes, then that proves my point, which is this: zoom and smart-scope are functionally identical. This whole hypothetical scenario I set up was my deduction. If zoom would increase accuracy for autos, then complaining about smart-scope doing the same would be pointless.

 

AFAIK red reticle only gives you reticle magnetism. Not bullet magnetism. Bullet magnetism curves bullets even without red reticle. And it doesn't reduce bloom. So no, there is no accuracy bonus over no red reticle.

 

 

Also... even if the scope did give an accuracy bonus in past games, it's not pointless to discuss, because then the older games don't put zoom on the automatics for that reason. It's a design choice.

 

It seems you are focused on the terminology we are using when talking about accuracy buffs... we are only using the term ADS because Halo 5 is the only game that uses ADS and is the only game that gives accuracy boosts to zooming in. We hate how Halo 5 gives an accuracy boost. If ADS in Halo 5 didn't give an accuracy boost, we would hate it much less than traditional scope (I would still hate it because I hate how ADS blocks half of my goddamn screen, and because there is a delay (again, on a low lag monitor it is more noticeable)).

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When people say bloom was awful in Reach but are perfectly ok with automatics that have smartscope and headshot bonuses

 

nick-young-confused-face-300x256_nqlyaa.

I want to be clear with my +1 that I loathed bloom with full frontal rage. 

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Theoretical modding discussion? AND NOBODY INVITED ME?

 

 

 

No, they're still not functionally identical. Zoom is simply multiplying the range at which magnetism and autoaim can help you. Smart scope increases the accuracy across the board. Smart scoped AR's are significantly better at cross mapping than a theoretical scoped AR...otherwise known as the Halo 3 ODST SMG.

 

 

This is not completely correct. Weapon tags in Halo 1 have a flag under triggers called "use error when unzoomed". This flag is specifically why the Halo 1 sniper rifle has somewhat noticeable spread when unzoomed, and absolutely none when it is zoomed. The Halo 2 Sniper Rifle and Beam Rifle also have this flag activated. It should be noted, however, this flag isn't used with any non-sniper weaponry, to my knowledge.

 

Thanks for correcting me about the sniper! Didn't know that.

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I negged you because I explicitly argued against the shit that you claimed I'm saying.

 

Put it simply, I don't like people putting words in my mouth. It's a completely stupid and baffling idea that I chewed out Dev for, and yet here you are trying to act like I support it.

 

You clearly didn't read my posts thoroughly, because if you did, you would have realized that you made the same mistake three times.

 

I dunno why you negged me for saying "K". I can understand the other shit lol.

 

I went back and read all of the posts again. I said "Dev and cookies" because you two were the ones involved in the entire discussion and I was attempting to define the word "dead" in gaming to both of you. But I can see how you think I was lumping you in and criticizing you alongside Dev so I apologize for the misunderstanding.

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I dunno why you negged me for saying "K". I can understand the other shit lol.

 

I went back and read all of the posts again. I said "Dev and cookies" because you two were the ones involved in the entire discussion and I was attempting to define the word "dead" in gaming to both of you. But I can see how you think I was lumping you in and criticizing you alongside Dev so I apologize for the misunderstanding.

It's all good. As you can probably tell, I'm a hard-ass about details.

 

I initially stepped into the argument because neither of you were getting anywhere, but since you two already explained yourselves and made peace with each other, I think we can finally put this silly debate to rest.

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Think of it this way: to the casual majority, what defines Halo is 2 and 3. CE is irrelevant, sadly. This is because the franchise's multiplayer truly kicked off with Halo 2's online, and 3 being a massive success in terms of sales didn't help either. Your favorite Halo game is CE, though 2 and 3 are far more iconic because they're remembered more greatly, they represent the series, though that doesn't make them better. This is why simply calling something iconic, even strictly in the context of Halo, doesn't always mean the better road.

 

I agree with everything else you said, so no need to respond.

 

I can't even pick a favorite of the first three Halo games tbh, those years were just blind fun for me, I couldn't imagine going without one of them.

 

Just to clarify, my point was "the zoom system is iconic to this level, it should be treated with the same level of value as those other systems and elements."

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In regards to the whole "iconic" debate, @@SpitFlame you brought up that iconic can have a bad connotation and used Hitler as an example... actually most people would describe his acts as "infamous".

 

Nokterne or whoever else was talking about iconic status was clearly talking about how everyone thinks the old scopes were fantastically designed and iconic in a good way and deeply connected with the Halo experience. Halo 5 threw it out the window to chase mainstream titles like COD and other ADS shooters. You can argue that a traditional scope isn't unique in any way, and you would be right, but Halo has always used it and thus it is identified with Halo. Specifically the clear middle scope and the grey, blurry edges. Switching it to ADS now makes Halo lose part of its long term identity.

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Thank you.

Just wondering because I want to see if it's possible to frame count the smart scope and zoom speeds. Im pretty sure smart scope is slower but having legitimate proof doesn't hurt.

I had free time, so I did frame counting.

 

FPS = 30

 

Time = (Frames)/(FPS)

 

Halo CE

- Magnum: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- Sniper Rifle: 6 frames in, 6 frames zoom, 6 frames out

 

Halo 2

- Battle Rifle: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- Sniper Rifle: 6 frames in, 6 frames zoom, 6 frames out

 

Halo 2 Anniversary

- Battle Rifle: 5 frames in, 5 frames out

- Carbine: 5 frames in, 5 frames out

- Sniper Rifle: 5 frames in, 5 frames zoom, 5 frames out

 

Halo 3

- Battle Rifle: 7 frames in, 7 frames out

- Sniper Rifle: 7 frames in, 7 frames zoom, 7 frames out

 

Halo 4

- Magnum: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- DMR: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

 

Halo 5

- Magnum: 5 frames in, 5 frames out

- DMR: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- BR: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- Shotgun: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- Storm Rifle: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- Rocket Launcher: 7 frames in, 7 frames out

- Spartan Laser: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- Sniper Rifle: 3 frames in, 0 frames zoom, 3 frames out

 

Smart Link isn't slower than zooming. The speed is the same as Halo CE and Halo 2 numbers, and Halo 5 has the fastest zooming Sniper Rifle in the series. H2A and Halo 3 have different zooming speeds than the other games, the former being slightly faster and the latter slightly slower.

 

I also tested for a Smart Link delay by queing a shot and smart scope together. I didn't find a delay, but if there is one, then it's within the realms of 1-2 frames, i.e. nearly insignificant. Whatever delay there is, if it exists, probably isn't intentional one, but rather, a result of how the game checks and ques commands.

 

TLDR; Smart Link is the same speed as zooming in other Halos. It only feels slower because of the animation and the placebo effect. The only real problem is view obstruction.

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TLDR; Smart Link is the same speed as zooming in other Halos. It only feels slower because of the animation and the placebo effect. The only real problem is view obstruction.

 

I'd say the distinction is that in the old system you clicked R3 and were immediately given the zoomed view, there was no flashy set of frames that you had to ignore between the two states. Those frames you counted in the old games weren't a period where the player was significantly impeded in the tracking of targets or shooting. You can see the impact of this in how much more infrequent quickscoping is in this game, for example. People used to aim, zoom, and fire in basically one simultaneous action, which doesn't happen to nearly the same degree in H5 due to the smart-scope additions mucking up that combo.

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I'd say the distinction is that in the old system you clicked R3 and were immediately given the zoomed view, there was no flashy set of frames that you had to ignore between the two states. Those frames you counted in the old games weren't a period where the player was significantly impeded in the tracking of targets or shooting.

 

Who says you have to ignore the animation frames?

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ffs I'm so salty right now. so I lost like four arena games in a row. I'm playing fine, going positive and playing the obj etc. but its just not happening. Losing streaks suck, but that's not that bad. It happens. 

 

then I finally get a good team, we're dominating on strongholds plaza... and I get dropped when we're up 60-11. I had a bunch of perfects, I was hype because finally a game was going well - I HADN'T EVEN DIED. my internet's fine, nothing else was affected. just halo. it's 3v4 now so those guys might even lose in the end too, because god forbid we be able to rejoin ranked matches like we're playing an AAA title in 2016 or something. I search again, next game starts and it's slayer - every last one of my teammates charges OS like lemmings and we're down 3 about four seconds in. 

 

I want to love this game but holy shit is it ever frustrating sometimes. Idk if this is the right place to post but I needed to vent. I've got to stop queueing solo. 

 

 

sidenote and maybe more on-topic: has 343 said anything about the scoreboard frame drop yet? it's driving me crazy

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I had free time, so I did frame counting.

 

FPS = 30

 

Time = (Frames)/(FPS)

 

Halo CE

- Magnum: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- Sniper Rifle: 6 frames in, 6 frames zoom, 6 frames out

 

Halo 2

- Battle Rifle: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- Sniper Rifle: 6 frames in, 6 frames zoom, 6 frames out

 

Halo 2 Anniversary

- Battle Rifle: 5 frames in, 5 frames out

- Carbine: 5 frames in, 5 frames out

- Sniper Rifle: 5 frames in, 5 frames zoom, 5 frames out

 

Halo 3

- Battle Rifle: 7 frames in, 7 frames out

- Sniper Rifle: 7 frames in, 7 frames zoom, 7 frames out

 

Halo 4

- Magnum: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- DMR: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

 

Halo 5

- Magnum: 5 frames in, 5 frames out

- DMR: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- BR: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- Shotgun: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- Storm Rifle: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- Rocket Launcher: 7 frames in, 7 frames out

- Spartan Laser: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- Sniper Rifle: 3 frames in, 0 frames zoom, 3 frames out

 

Smart Link isn't slower than zooming. The speed is the same as Halo CE and Halo 2 numbers, and Halo 5 has the fastest zooming Sniper Rifle in the series. H2A and Halo 3 have different zooming speeds than the other games, the former being slightly faster and the latter slightly slower.

 

I also tested for a Smart Link delay by queing a shot and smart scope together. I didn't find a delay, but if there is one, then it's within the realms of 1-2 frames, i.e. nearly insignificant. Whatever delay there is, if it exists, probably isn't intentional one, but rather, a result of how the game checks and ques commands.

 

TLDR; Smart Link is the same speed as zooming in other Halos. It only feels slower because of the animation and the placebo effect. The only real problem is view obstruction.

Can you take this data and apply it to weapon swap times? I kinda want to see how much of a delay Halo 5 has since we can no longer pre-emptively zoom, so to speak.

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Can you take this data and apply it to weapon swap times? I kinda want to see how much of a delay Halo 5 has since we can no longer pre-emptively zoom, so to speak.

 

I'm pretty sure that CE is the only Halo game with preemptive zooming. Every other Halo locks you out of zooming while you're swapping weapons, throwing grenades, or reloading.

 

Give me a second to check.

 

Edit. Looks like other Halos have limited preemptive zooming. CE's just the only Halo with full preemptive zooming for grenades, swapping, and melee.

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Delete if not allowed, but just wanna get some more eyes on this. My mate has dedicated the last 2 and a half years of his life to making this thing as good as possible. Super Smash Brothers has the Smash Bros documentary, and now Halo has it's own version finally:

Episode 1 of 12:

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Hey,

I requested to join the Team Beyond spartan company a couple weeks ago but havent gotten in yet. I really would like to help out and ofc get the helmet myself so it would be nice if someone could put me in - thank you.

I know probably no one knows me bc Im more of a lurker but I hope thats not a bad criterion to get in.

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Hey,

I requested to join the Team Beyond spartan company a couple weeks ago but havent gotten in yet. I really would like to help out and ofc get the helmet myself so it would be nice if someone could put me in - thank you.

 

I know probably no one knows me bc Im more of a lurker but I hope thats not a bad criterion to get in.

@@Infinity

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I had free time, so I did frame counting.

 

FPS = 30

 

Time = (Frames)/(FPS)

 

Halo CE

- Magnum: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- Sniper Rifle: 6 frames in, 6 frames zoom, 6 frames out

 

Halo 2

- Battle Rifle: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- Sniper Rifle: 6 frames in, 6 frames zoom, 6 frames out

 

Halo 2 Anniversary

- Battle Rifle: 5 frames in, 5 frames out

- Carbine: 5 frames in, 5 frames out

- Sniper Rifle: 5 frames in, 5 frames zoom, 5 frames out

 

Halo 3

- Battle Rifle: 7 frames in, 7 frames out

- Sniper Rifle: 7 frames in, 7 frames zoom, 7 frames out

 

Halo 4

- Magnum: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- DMR: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

 

Halo 5

- Magnum: 5 frames in, 5 frames out

- DMR: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- BR: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- Shotgun: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- Storm Rifle: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- Rocket Launcher: 7 frames in, 7 frames out

- Spartan Laser: 6 frames in, 6 frames out

- Sniper Rifle: 3 frames in, 0 frames zoom, 3 frames out

 

Smart Link isn't slower than zooming. The speed is the same as Halo CE and Halo 2 numbers, and Halo 5 has the fastest zooming Sniper Rifle in the series. H2A and Halo 3 have different zooming speeds than the other games, the former being slightly faster and the latter slightly slower.

 

I also tested for a Smart Link delay by queing a shot and smart scope together. I didn't find a delay, but if there is one, then it's within the realms of 1-2 frames, i.e. nearly insignificant. Whatever delay there is, if it exists, probably isn't intentional one, but rather, a result of how the game checks and ques commands.

 

TLDR; Smart Link is the same speed as zooming in other Halos. It only feels slower because of the animation and the placebo effect. The only real problem is view obstruction.

What is your method? Mind doing a YouTube video of how you counted the frames? I'm really curious.

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I can't even pick a favorite of the first three Halo games tbh, those years were just blind fun for me, I couldn't imagine going without one of them.

I would probably agree except the other day we played MCC team slayer.  We played like 4 matches of CE, followed by two of Halo 2 followed by a couple of Halo 3. It really put things in perspective for me. By the time we were done with the second match of Halo 3 I was fully tilted. H2 and H3 are so bad compared to H1. Sure, I enjoyed them way back when because I was young and naive and was just frankly excited to be playing Halo online in comparison to occasionally LANing H1.

 

Yes, I had fun playing them back in the day, but now, if I am going to go back and play an old Halo title, I don't really want to play H2, and even more don't want to play H3.  I'll always prefer the superior experience of H1.  

 

I had free time, so I did frame counting.

 
That's a whole lotta integers for me to really trust these conclusions.  This type of testing should yield precision floating point values in hopefully millisecond units. I'm not buying it. 

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words

Does zooming with the H5 Rockets do anything special? The zoom itself isn't very much at all.

 

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*Halo Science stuff*

 

People need to learn from this example and realize that making assumptions on what is or isn't factual hurts all of us in the end. As a community, we should avoid non-verified statements on game mechanics entirely until it is tested and proved either True or False. That way, we don't have long silly arguments over faulty information.

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