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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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He said "Aliens", and then "Transformers" implying movie franchises, rather than specific movies. But in that case, WHAT Transformers?

 

Y'know there's a movie literally called TRANSFORMERS too... right?

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He said "Aliens", and then "Transformers" implying movie franchises, rather than specific movies. But in that case, WHAT Transformers?

aliens the movie vs the relative sameness that is all the bay transformers films.

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Y'know there's a movie literally called TRANSFORMERS too... right?

There're "two" technically. The 1986 movie which, while having the subtitle "The Movie" is still also known as just "Transformers". Then there's the 2007 movie. 

 

aliens the movie vs the relative sameness that is all the bay transformers films.

You're pitting a movie against ALL the Transformers movies done by Bay? Unfair, fam.

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There're "two" technically. The 1986 movie which, while having the subtitle "The Movie" is still also known as just "Transformers". Then there's the 2007 movie. 

 

 

You're pitting a movie against ALL the Transformers movies done by Bay? Unfair, fam.

you know what than you little shit? Aliens vs transformers 1. HA BEAT THAT!

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What is the Over/Under on H6 having wall running? Looking at how Halo has been "progressing" you have to think it is pretty likely. 

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What is the Over/Under on H6 having wall running? Looking at how Halo has been "progressing" you have to think it is pretty likely. 

 

I would imagine that will be Spartan Vale's movement ability.

 

because H6 will be a hero shooter

 

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I would imagine that will be Spartan Vale's movement ability.

 

because H6 will be a hero shooter

 

:wutface:  :wutface:

I can't even imagine.....

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Why is that a bad thing?—to switch to an automatic when you get close. In CE I often switch to my AR when I get close for a melee (their shields would already be weakened by then). A lot of the smart-scopes act differently (sniper juxtaposed with Hydra). I see what you mean that the roles with some of the autos, like the AR and SMG, overlap, but they have their own roles to play. You can't pit an AR against a BR at mid range if both sides are equally skilled, same thing with pitting an SMG against a shotgun at close range. Their scopes are a bit pointless, though.

 

Yeah, it's ridiculous that you can lunge further with your Energy Sword just by "looking harder", but I thought it was agreed upon that immersion doesn't matter in gameplay. If it did we'd all be pro-sprint, right?

 

There's nothing wrong with a little range. Besides, pretty sure CE's shotgun can shoot the furthest.

 

"to switch to an automatic when you get close."  That's not the problem.  You're not understanding me.  I've always switched to autos when I get close.  The problem is that you don't even need to be close with the autos.  Their useful range is WAY too long, especially in Arena, where the average engagement distance is significantly shorter than in Warzone.  My whole problem with it is that the autos have all but completely edged out the utility weapon (the pistol).  In order for the pistol to have the upper hand, you almost have to be so far back that you're in rifle territory now. It's like the pistol has no optimum range.  And that's a problem when you look at how much easier the autos are to use than the pistol. They shouldn't be able to compete at the generous bounty of ranges that they've been afforded.  They're usefulness needs to be compacted.

 

But then the autos step on each other's toes even more, right? Exactly. That's because theres too many damn autos in the game, and they all function almost identically.  Either the SMG or the AR just shouldn't even be in the game, preferably the SMG.  They're redundant. You don't need both of them.  Their optimum range difference is freaking miniscule. H5 has like 7 different weapons that are used very similarly all jockeying for dominance in the same 20ft space.  And since they added the Brute PR, the SR just became redundant too. It doesn't need to be in the game at all.

 

My beef with the sword lunge has nothing to do with immersion, although I do think it's silly. It has way more to do with how unintuitive it feels to zoom in with a melee weapon to go farther. Literally zero melee weapons I've ever used have had that mechanic. And I don't think it adds anything to the game besides needless complexity. The sword's range should just split the difference between scoped and unscoped, and then disallow smart scope on it.

 

I don't mind a versatile shotgun or sword if the utility weapon can hold it's own against it. You cite the CE shotgun, but fail to include that CE pistol keeps it in check. The H5 pistol absolutely does not.  All of these overlapping ranges would be so much more tolerable if the pistol was a 4sk. That's really my whole point.

 

Eliminate redundancy in the sandbox and make each weapon serve a unique purpose.

Stop letting easy weapons intrude so far into ideal skill-weapon ranges, especially the utility weapon. It should bother you that an AR/Pistol fight at mid range is a 50/50 tossup.

 

Edit: Oh Jesus what have I done. Mods save this post. I don't know how to fix it.

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In that one is trash garbage and the other is Aliens, yes. :simms:

this is the correct answer.

 

not that it matters anyway because my point is that comparing aliens to any one of the new transformers movies is like comparing old halo to new halo, they ARE different in approach in both cases stylistically, aliens is its own thing, but the transformers are stylistically consistent, if im comparing styles i can essentially compare one movie to a group of others, because that group of others is effectively one thing for the sake of the argument. 

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"to switch to an automatic when you get close."  That's not the problem.  You're not understanding me.  I've always switched to autos when I get close.  The problem is that you don't even need to be close with the autos.  Their useful range is WAY too long, especially in Arena, where the average engagement distance is significantly shorter than in Warzone.  My whole problem with it is that the autos have all but completely edged out the utility weapon (the pistol).  In order for the pistol to have the upper hand, you almost have to be so far back that you're in rifle territory now. It's like the pistol has no optimum range.  And that's a problem when you look at how much easier the autos are to use than the pistol. They shouldn't be able to compete at the generous bounty of ranges that they've been afforded.  They're usefulness needs to be compacted.

 

But then the autos step on each other's toes even more, right? Exactly. That's because theres too many damn autos in the game, and they all function almost identically.  Either the SMG or the AR just shouldn't even be in the game, preferably the SMG.  They're redundant. You don't need both of them.  Their optimum range difference is freaking miniscule. H5 has like 7 different weapons that are used very similarly all jockeying for dominance in the same 20ft space.  And since they added the Brute PR, the SR just became redundant too. It doesn't need to be in the game at all.

 

My beef with the sword lunge has nothing to do with immersion, although I do think it's silly. It has way more to do with how unintuitive it feels to zoom in with a melee weapon to go farther. Literally zero melee weapons I've ever used have had that mechanic. And I don't think it adds anything to the game besides needless complexity. The sword's range should just split the difference between scoped and unscoped, and then disallow smart scope on it.

 

I don't mind a versatile shotgun or sword if the utility weapon can hold it's own against it. You cite the CE shotgun, but fail to include that CE pistol keeps it in check. The H5 pistol absolutely does not.  All of these overlapping ranges would be so much more tolerable if the pistol was a 4sk. That's really my whole point.

 

Eliminate redundancy in the sandbox and make each weapon serve a unique purpose.

Stop letting easy weapons intrude so far into ideal skill-weapon ranges, especially the utility weapon. It should bother you that an AR/Pistol fight at mid range is a 50/50 tossup.

 

Edit: Oh Jesus what have I done. Mods save this post. I don't know how to fix it.

 

oRZNhvV.png

 

I don't even know how you managed such wizardry...but that fixed it.

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I dunno about you guys but I do actually hate Dev posting absolutely stupid, Trump-level shifting the goalpost rebuttals like this one to me.

 

Seriously Dev, are you really this dense? Or are you purposefully trying to shift the argument because you know how truly wrong you are?

 

We were talking about install base. Raw console sales numbers. And you just proved my point by showing how low Xbox sales were.

 

Here's your original comment so we can get back on track:

 

"- Halo being console-exclusive and featured on a console that had an immense PR disaster associated with it as well resulting in a significantly smaller install base (http://www.ibtimes.com/ps4-vs-xbox-one-close-40-million-playstation-4-consoles-have-been-sold-2013-launch-2361021   recent but not totally up to date, maybe there's one for a later quarter)."

 

You incorrectly claimed the Xbox One had a lower install base than previous Halo games had. Your own fact checking just proved this.

 

Like please, enlighten me on why Xbox sales vs Playstation matter at all? And why do U.S. sales matter at all? Why do you add in these bullshit qualifiers as if they matter to Halo's total sales?

 

Here's the facts: Halo 1 saved the Xbox from having truly horrific sales (hardly ANYONE was hyped for the Xbox, most gamers made constant jokes about it). The Xbox was still sitting at low sales and Halo 2 made it even more popular and again moved tons of consoles to the people who wanted to play online at home by themselves. Halo 3 boosted the Xbox 360 from the early adopter cycle to huge growth with massive console sales when it came out. Halo 5? Had an install base double the size of these previous games and sold the least copies.

 

Every subsequent Halo game after 3 has barely moved the needle for Xbox console sales. Because they are trash. 4 and Reach had high software sales because everyone already had Xboxes by then and it was a big franchise that people with Xbox 360s wanted to check out, not just Halo fans. Hell I bet if the Xbox One was truly a dead console like you erroneously claimed it was (like say, the OG Xbox was at launch 2001), Halo 5 would have pitiful numbers because it's such a pisspoor, buggy, incomplete game with minimal competitive viability that relies on pay to win microtransactions to stay alive. When Halo 6 comes out the world will move on and Halo 5 will be forgotten because it is a focus tested product of its time; a game chasing the trends instead of staying true to its identity, watered down in every way with horrible aiming mechanics that everyone can't wait to move on from, and with no split screen to keep it alive long term.

Dev's evidence at least tries to back up his claim. Yours on the other hand, doesn't. You didn't prove that "h1-3 launched on far deader (at the time) consoles than H5" because you linked an article from 2016. You're trying to compare the Xbox One's user base after three years with the 360's user base after one year.

 

However, since neither of you seem to have any valid evidence, I'll go ahead and link this little page. Starting at 2007 Q1, the quarter closest to Halo 3's release date, the Xbox 360 had 9.3 million total sales. According to this report, the Xbox One had 15 million total sales by November 2015, the quarter closest to Halo 5's release date.

 

So no, Halo 3 didn't launch with a "far deader" user base like you claimed. Sure, 6 million may be a large difference, but 9.3 million total sales is still very healthy relatively speaking.

 

Now, Dev wasn't right, but I could at least see the general idea of what he was trying to state. He even had the decency to make his argument clear and not blatantly insult the other party. Meanwhile, you're complaining about moving goalposts, but that's exactly what you did. The argument at hand is about the incorrect claim you made and nothing else. Halo's sales, Halo's effects on console sales, etc, none of that matters in this situation.

 

If you want to make an argument about that stuff, then make a new argument about it. Don't include it into something completely irrelevant and inflate your post with it. All it does is clutter up your text and make it harder to find out what you're trying to say.

 

That goes to everyone around here. I'm sick of seeing all these wall-of-text "arguments" that devolve into pissing contests about insulting the other party until they shut up. The only reason why posts like yours aren't removed is because you put in the minimal effort into trying to make it "informational", but if you stripped that away, all you'd have left is a typical hate post.

 

I mean come on people, this is shit you learn in high school. If you can't make a strong argument, then you can at least try to be a decent person.

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"to switch to an automatic when you get close."  That's not the problem.  You're not understanding me.  I've always switched to autos when I get close.  The problem is that you don't even need to be close with the autos.  Their useful range is WAY too long, especially in Arena, where the average engagement distance is significantly shorter than in Warzone.  My whole problem with it is that the autos have all but completely edged out the utility weapon (the pistol).  In order for the pistol to have the upper hand, you almost have to be so far back that you're in rifle territory now. It's like the pistol has no optimum range.  And that's a problem when you look at how much easier the autos are to use than the pistol. They shouldn't be able to compete at the generous bounty of ranges that they've been afforded.  They're usefulness needs to be compacted.

 

But then the autos step on each other's toes even more, right? Exactly. That's because theres too many damn autos in the game, and they all function almost identically.  Either the SMG or the AR just shouldn't even be in the game, preferably the SMG.  They're redundant. You don't need both of them.  Their optimum range difference is freaking miniscule. H5 has like 7 different weapons that are used very similarly all jockeying for dominance in the same 20ft space.  And since they added the Brute PR, the SR just became redundant too. It doesn't need to be in the game at all.

 

My beef with the sword lunge has nothing to do with immersion, although I do think it's silly. It has way more to do with how unintuitive it feels to zoom in with a melee weapon to go farther. Literally zero melee weapons I've ever used have had that mechanic. And I don't think it adds anything to the game besides needless complexity. The sword's range should just split the difference between scoped and unscoped, and then disallow smart scope on it.

 

I don't mind a versatile shotgun or sword if the utility weapon can hold it's own against it. You cite the CE shotgun, but fail to include that CE pistol keeps it in check. The H5 pistol absolutely does not.  All of these overlapping ranges would be so much more tolerable if the pistol was a 4sk. That's really my whole point.

 

Eliminate redundancy in the sandbox and make each weapon serve a unique purpose.

Stop letting easy weapons intrude so far into ideal skill-weapon ranges, especially the utility weapon. It should bother you that an AR/Pistol fight at mid range is a 50/50 tossup.

 

Edit: Oh Jesus what have I done. Mods save this post. I don't know how to fix it.

 

brendan-fraser-crying-leaving-club-dayti

lol FTFY (highlighting and switching the font back to "automatic" also works)

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Does not matter. Does not matter at all. What matters is looking at each function separately and deciding which ones work and which ones don't. Even if there is a string of bad decisions, there's a chance that at least one or two of them will be good, so treating the whole of it with strong backlash is pretty counter-intuitive if you want what's best for the franchise.

 

I do think that smart-scope exists partly to attract a broader audience (doesn't explain why Battlefront had traditional zooming, but whatever), but I highly doubt smart-scope has had a negative backlash in terms of sales and general popularity, which is of capital importance for the longevity of the franchise. I know quality should be put above sales (just look at CoD), but I'm saying this in particular from Microsoft's perspective, who are the ones you should be convincing.

 

It matters because examining these kinds of design choices in context lets us get a picture of 343's design philosophy. That philosophy deserves harsh critique if you think the series is in decline, and the way to do that is by putting the spotlight on the resulting set of interconnected game elements, even if on individual examination they seem minor.

 

Smart-scope on its own of course can't be tied to any backlash or sales drop. But the pattern of decision making behind its implementation can be.

 

I've established smart-scope is the unique one, so I'd go with that.

 

I somehow already know your opinion on that specific issue. You didn't answer the broader question. All things being equal, does a unique solution have merit over one that is commonly used elsewhere? In the context of creating a gameplay experience.

 

You're the guy who keeps posting memes about how unique doesn't equal better, and I'm trying to demonstrate to you that it does in certain contexts, particularly artistic ones.

 

Except this has nothing to do with developing my opinions, this is about whether or not smart-scope is slower: that's an objective, two-sided inquiry. Like I said, you made the claim, you need to prove it. You're not going to make me sit through hours of tedious testing, so for now, I'm adamant that smart-scope is not slower than zoom. Besides, you're not doing research either, so I could say that you don't wish to challenge your own viewpoints, too.

 

No kind of data or example is going to convince you as well as getting a feel for both mechanical styles yourself while using them in gameplay. I implore you to make the sacrifice of twenty minutes and a disc swap to get the feel for this yourself. I've actually been looking at some of my clips in slow motion during this discussion just to make sure I'm not crazy.

 

But sure, I'll do the improvised version of what you're asking and zero in on what I mean by slower (which I admit I used in a more broad sense initially, but whatever, let's roll with it). The older titles actually never broke your view in any way during the zoom transition, they simply increased the magnification while at the same time turning off the gun model and adding the scope overlay. Your view of the target was never impeded or distorted beyond a darkening of the area outside the focal point. This is one of the least intrusive ways to sell the illusion of looking through a scope in a game that I've personally experienced. Watch this video and slow down the playback speed during a part where the players are using the pistol or sniper while zoomed to see this in action (5:53 has both). You can see this in every Halo game older than H5.

 

Smart-scope in Halo 5 on most weapons triggers horizontal screen motion, while also adding moving geometry to your screen instead of hiding it. Watch this video in slow motion for examples, good place to start is 4:40. We're talking the space of a frame or two here, but this is enough for most people to need a split second recalculation of what is happening in front of them in terms of enemy motion. The way it ends up feeling in game is "slower," because of that tiny barrier that exists between zoomed and unzoomed, whereas before, the view was unimpeded. It really stands out (at least to me) when going back and forth between the two systems.

 

Eh, I'm okay with a bit of dead-time; it makes you thoughtful of what gun your holding, deciding when the next gunfight will be, and how you use your stuff. I prefer slower-paced games anyway.

 

This is a cop-out, but fine, I'll put an equivalent amount of effort into explaining why responsive game mechanics are fun, and a conduit to a pace set by broader aspects of the game rather than the source of the pace itself.

 

Plenty of people associate Grifball with betraying your teammates because of how often it happens. And it doesn't matter anyway since "iconic" is a buzzword used to justify why the older games are better. Its meaning is initially neutral and depends on how you execute it. Hitler is iconic for killing millions of Jews, not a good thing.

 

I made it clear that I was using iconic in the context of the Halo brand, and gave you equivilant examples. You're trying to avoid the issue by making it a problem of semantics, while also further obscuring the point by dragging grifball betrayals into the discussion (and referencing the holocaust, which is a totally reasonable comparison to what we're discussing and not ridiculous at all :kappa: ).

 

This is about the classic zoom system's value to Halo with regard to its ubiquity up until this title in the series, and whether the subsequent recognition, distinctiveness, and nostalgic appeal give it any additional value.

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H3A will be announced at E3 next year, alongside the Scorpio, and H3A will be shown remastered, running on the Scorpio.

 

H3A with Blur Cinematics and full graphical overhaul, while being played on the Scorpio, "will be something they're so hot for, they're scrambling over each other to get to it"

 

From a lore standpoint, why the fuck would anyone go from a system that allowed the user to operate a weapon as if it had a scope, without actually having the weapon obstruct ANY view they had, is beyond me. Why anyone would change something that worked is beyond me. Its purely 343 pandering to the crowd that see ADS as a CoD mechanic.

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H3A will be announced at E3 next year, alongside the Scorpio, and H3A will be shown remastered, running on the Scorpio.

 

H3A with Blur Cinematics and full graphical overhaul, while being played on the Scorpio, "will be something they're so hot for, they're scrambling over each other to get to it"

 

From a lore standpoint, why the fuck would anyone go from a system that allowed the user to operate a weapon as if it had a scope, without actually having the weapon obstruct ANY view they had, is beyond me. Why anyone would change something that worked is beyond me. Its purely 343 pandering to the crowd that see ADS as a CoD mechanic.

B-but its not ADS, its Smart-Scope™ :kappa:

 

On serious note I'd like to see H3(A), on PC.

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-Hears talk about how H5 has the highest movement skill gap of any Halo game-

 

Now wait, wouldn't Halos 1-3 have higher movement skillgaps than their successors because they lack sprint, and thruster pack? You have to be more thoughtful, and precise with your movement in those games because there are fewer ways to get away.Successful map movement was harder to execute. Poor map movement was more easily punished.

 

Especially in Halo 1 with its 3SK lethality.

 

This means that Halo 5 has the lowest movement skill gap in the series. Even lower than that of The 4.

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white unreadable snip

I always cut and paste into an app that doesn't do rich formatting like Notepad++ or Notepad and then cut and paste back into beyond forum. It loses the weird formatting in the process and becomes just text. 

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so yesterday i was playing ranked doubles with a friend in my spartan company and he lagged out mid match, but then all the sudden another one of my friends joined in the game  :walshy:  we played it out and everything, has this happened to anyone else? 

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I always cut and paste into an app that doesn't do rich formatting like Notepad++ or Notepad and then cut and paste back into beyond forum. It loses the weird formatting in the process and becomes just text.

You can click the little "lightswitch" icon up at the top left of the posting options, then paste the text, and switch it back.

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@@Moa, @@Devaneaux,

 

I apologize for being ass towards both of you in particular.  Like several people have said, y'all don't deserve it. I should not let my difference of opinion with people cause me to treat them like shit.  I don't treat people in real life like that, so it shouldn't be ok just because it's on the internet.  

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