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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Yeah that's right. I was saving that ammo for a later time as it is not exclusive to Warzone. Anyways, the physics are a joke in this game. That and the tank controls too. 

Ah, okay. I thought I'd bring it up since you were talking about the technical level of things in H5. H4's vehicles were garbage as well.

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I see you guys constantly post about MP and its faults, but anyone does feel that 343's art and musical direction is killing Halo? I am very much on the campaign side of things, and I honestly can't play Halo 5's campaign. The changes they made, story aside, are such a far cry to what I think makes Halo, Halo. For all I care, Halo's artistic identity died with Bungie. Even Marcus Lehto thought 343's art team were overdesigning shit (just look at the Forerunner art - it's purely incomprehensible. Hell you can SEE that it's carelessly put together, with the thousands of components just smashed together and clipping between them.) The music's good, but not Halo. I find music hard to quantify, so I won't talk much on it. Perhaps someone else can help me. I've played all of 343's Halo games, but honestly guys, I haven't played an actual Halo game since Reach.

 

I can't see a piece of music like Peril fitting into H5's story. It's too slow-paced to fit in with the ridiculous frantic-ness (?) that H5's campaign has.

 

I think the direction they should have gone with H4/H5 is one where you have the same kind of simple-to-understand story, and one that is more "happy-go-lucky" with more emotional./serious moments intertwined, which is essentially what H1-3 did very well. You had clever dialogue from Sgt. Johnson, which in turn is what made his death so heartbreaking. Note that this is also what the original Star Wars trilogy feels like, at least to me, and one of the many problems the prequels had was that they took themselves too seriously and tried to force occasional humour in (Jar Jar) instead of the other way around. Imagine if H4's story was one where Cortana keeps up her wit throughout the game, but as it progresses we also see her rampancy. 

 

And the shitty thing is that they could have done this happy go lucky thing while still catering to the expanded lore people by simply including a similar thing to the codex from Mass Effect. I hate that world-building in H5 is you literally walking up to some outer world colonists, pressing a button, and them saying "Fuck off, UNSC scum!" To a casual player, the history and analysis of the UNSC/Rebel war is presented as a shitty, flat line with no further context given, and no reason for me to want to continue to learn more about the conflict. 

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I feel like the Team Doubles playlist would be golden if it had...

 

- Ranks

- Static timers

- Timer notifiers on all powerups/weapons.

 

And the map pool being this.

 

Cobalt

Empire

Hanger

Hazard

Molten

Plaza

Purple Reign

Shurima
The Rig

Truth

Tyrant

 

* Optic Prison has potential but the map only needs a different weapon/power up layout

*Malta just isn't good and consist of spawning in one area.

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Imagine if H4's story was one where Cortana keeps up her wit throughout the game, but as it progresses we also see her rampancy.

See, I think keeping her wit for anything beyond the first few levels would've tarnished the tone and character arc set up for her. It might've also given the impression that her rampancy is merely something added ONTO her personality, rather than something that was legitimately destroying and fragmenting her personality and being from the inside out. When she slowly loses her basic personality traits or has them altered, and begins to have major, life-threatening outbursts (to John) due to this self-destructing ailment, it only adds to the sense that he, and you, the audience are running out of time and need to act fast. To me, it worked very well within the established plot.

 

And the shitty thing is that they could have done this happy go lucky thing while still catering to the expanded lore people by simply including a similar thing to the codex from Mass Effect. I hate that world-building in H5 is you literally walking up to some outer world colonists, pressing a button, and them saying "Fuck off, UNSC scum!" To a casual player, the history and analysis of the UNSC/Rebel war is presented as a shitty, flat line with no further context given, and no reason for me to want to continue to learn more about the conflict. 

You should take a dive into the intel logs of the game. Many of them do proper, and smooth world building, especially in regards to Meridian and Sangheilios. Some of my favorite audio logs also come from "Blue Team". So chilling. There's also a line of dialogue in "Evacuation" that ends with a helluva lot more payoff provided you listen to the audio logs of the levels preceding it, involving said character.

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The growing consensus that a majority of this thread plays H5: Guardians (Chinese Bootleg edition) continues to hold true.

 

@salent where's that party matching please?? ELO hell is not fun.

 

I play warzone fairly often, because (even despite the lack of weapons on map) it's the only part of Halo 5 that actually resembles Halo. I stay the fuck out of arena for the reaons I've already outlined. Every couple months I forget why it's terrible, go back in, and am instantly reminded.

 

So what was your point again? Ah right, you didn't have one, you're just one of those "lol adapt!!1" kids. This place really is becoming r/halo.

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I feel like the Team Doubles playlist would be golden if it had...

 

- Ranks

- Static timers

- Timer notifiers on all powerups/weapons.

 

And the map pool being this.

 

Cobalt

Empire

Hanger

Hazard

Molten

Plaza

Purple Reign

Shurima

The Rig

Truth

Tyrant

 

* Optic Prison has potential but the map only needs a different weapon/power up layout

*Malta just isn't good and consist of spawning in one area.

I don't like having notifications over powerups. It's a dead giveaway when someone picks up Camo, the powerup that's meant to hide you from the enemy.

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You should take a dive into the intel logs of the game. Many of them do proper, and smooth world building, especially in regards to Meridian and Sangheilios. Some of my favorite audio logs also come from "Blue Team". So chilling. There's also a line of dialogue in "Evacuation" that ends with a helluva lot more payoff provided you listen to the audio logs of the levels preceding it, involving said character.

 

Thats a core problem right there.  You shouldnt have to take a dive into intel logs to understand core relationships of the game or get contextual background that makes other parts actually make sense.  The story of H5 isnt "bad", its just told so poorly that its perceived that way.

 

I play warzone fairly often, because (even despite the lack of weapons on map) it's the only part of Halo 5 that actually resembles Halo. I stay the fuck out of arena for the reaons I've already outlined. Every couple months I forget why it's terrible, go back in, and am instantly reminded.

 

So what was your point again? Ah right, you didn't have one, you're just one of those "lol adapt!!1" kids. This place really is becoming r/halo.

 

So whats your point again? You're a dick to anybody that has a different opinion than you and have a blind hatred for anything not H1 - 3? you're one of those kids that needs to "lol get over yourself!!".  :wutface:

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I don't like having notifications over powerups. It's a dead giveaway when someone picks up Camo, the powerup that's meant to hide you from the enemy.

Just have the notification disappear after it spawns.

 

That would require intelligent competitive game design from 343 though.

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Any word on Halo 5 PC Forge/Customs Edition?   <<<<   Literally the only reason I care about Halo 5 anymore. 

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Just have the notification disappear after it spawns.

 

That would require intelligent competitive game design from 343 though.

but that would take away the skill and discipline of knowing the time for a power-up spawn. If I recall correctly, that was a huge complaint back in the H5 Beta days for power-weapon spawns. (But it reduces the skill gap!, etc etc)

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I feel like the Team Doubles playlist would be golden if it had...

 

- Ranks

- Static timers

- Timer notifiers on all powerups/weapons.

 

And the map pool being this.

 

Cobalt

Empire

Hanger

Hazard

Molten

Plaza

Purple Reign

Shurima

The Rig

Truth

Tyrant

 

* Optic Prison has potential but the map only needs a different weapon/power up layout

*Malta just isn't good and consist of spawning in one area.

Optic Prison doesn't have "potential", because it's already probably the best 2v2 map in the playlist, if not the whole game. The 4 power up setup is fine.

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Optic Prison doesn't have "potential", because it's already probably the best 2v2 map in the playlist, if not the whole game. The 4 power up setup is fine.

 

The only thing that needs to change about Optic Prison is ammo. Right now there are no pistols and one carbine and LR each with zero spare clips. So you gotta loot for ammo like it's 2011.

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The only thing that needs to change about Optic Prison is ammo. Right now there are no pistols and one carbine and LR each with zero spare clips. So you gotta loot for ammo like it's 2011.

You're definitely right about that. I know purely fat had reserve clips on everything but sethitoth made some tweaks to most of the maps before they got into mm to help out some forgers. Not really sure why he dropped ammo on that map.

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Sorry multi lock on, I just can't like optic prison either.

 

The 4 power up concept and the general hce feel is cool on paper. In game it just doesn't work too well though because this game's utility weapon is too weak. It's hard to stop snowballing with the h5 pistol. I don't think I've played a game on that map where the losing team breaks 15 kills.

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Sorry multi lock on, I just can't like optic prison either.

 

The 4 power up concept and the general hce feel is cool on paper. In game it just doesn't work too well though because this game's utility weapon is too weak. It's hard to stop snowballing with the h5 pistol. I don't think I've played a game on that map where the losing team breaks 15 kills.

Add me on Xbox and hop in my party next time you see me on and we'll play some doubles. When optic prison comes up let me show you how to play it okay :) I promise you'll learn to love it.

 

 

The story in H5 was shit. Delivery is not the problem. Clarity is not the problem. In fact, having read all of the books and paid attention to all of the "Hunt the Truth" nonsense (that was completely irrelevant, it turns out) before launch, it's actually WORSE if you know what's going on. Well, what's going on as much as is possible when a good portion of what happens is completely out of left field, retcons or trivializes major events in previous books and games, and is in no way explained by the conclusion. Problems with the basic premises aside, in what way can a story be good if it was told poorly? That's silly. Remember when Halo 2 introduced a bunch of new concepts and characters that contradicted CE, made no sense, and weren't explained at all? I don't. Guardians tried and failed to follow that model.

 

 

Some people make that argument, sure, but I don't consider that a valuable skill. What's more important is the strategy of actually controlling the map and getting the power items. Not just knowing when and where they will spawn, which ultimately boils down to one team making a mistake rather than both teams making a play for it and one team doing it better. The problem with the current implementation of their timer is that it gives you free information on the enemy team. You can be anywhere on the map and immediately know exactly when (and by extension where) an enemy player has picked up the weapon. This could be improved extremely easily if 343 actually thought any of the design flaws in their game were a problem.

 

 

 

The only problem I have with Optic Prison (aside from the ammo counts, which isn't huge to me) is the Hydras, which I understand were both placed on the map prior to the utterly pointless buff (thanks 343) and had their spawn times sped up in revision. I'm absolutely a fan of more prevalent power-up cycles and teleporters. Seriously, what does 343 have against teleporters? Teleporters are great.

I believe purely said he chose hydras because they counter camo well. If you zoom in it can lock on to people who are invisible if they're moving at any speed except crouching. Really useful on that map.

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Thats a core problem right there.  You shouldnt have to take a dive into intel logs to understand core relationships of the game or get contextual background that makes other parts actually make sense.  The story of H5 isnt "bad", its just told so poorly that its perceived that way.

I mean, it's not like not having the intel will make you not get anything. I was just saying, in the case of one character (One you don't even see, mind you) you get an extra bit of context to their situation which makes their last line of dialogue more impacting. 

 

To that point... I'm going to disagree with you. With regards to where Halo 4 left us, and where Halo 5 took us, the latter's story really is a jump off a cliff compared to its predecessor.  That's bad writing aside, too. As I spoke on earlier, you have Cortana's return, the AI plot, and the killing or taking out of actual, major, well developed villains. Not to mention the lack of continuity between the two games. There're things that make it bad, even if you had good writing to go with it. I mean, you couldn't have a villain for Halo 5 if you had proper writing, because proper writing would entirely throw out the idea that Cortana would return in the first place, let alone become a terribly motivated dictator that should LITERALLY be able to see why, where, and how her plan would fail. That's not mentioning how she herself states:

 

But there’s a huge difference. I’m a UNSC AI. I enjoy a rich existence. I have access to the entire sum of human knowledge; I can choose to enjoy or override emotional response and I have a vast range of senses. I can see radio waves as clearly as the Spartans see light, and I can sample odours, tastes, textures… anything I choose. Of course my loyalty is programmed and I accept that, but you know as well as I do, without human creators, we wouldn’t exist. My existence is fulfilling and I’m grateful. Even freed from that constraint, I would feel empathy towards humans. My nature means that I embrace their values. As much as if I had been born rather than manufactured.

 

To further that, why, past immortality would AI have any reason to turn on Humanity? They're not being mishandled, mistreated or anything. They only fall victim to mortality and that isn't exactly a fault of Humanity's. I could get why they'd go to Cortana asking for immortality, but I don't get why they'd just so quickly turn on them when Humanity literally brought them into existence and granted them lives in the first place. If AI were used as slaves within the universe, and were unable to do anything about it, and began to slowly, and collectively become angry with their place in the universe, I could see that, but they're not, and it was never established that they were in past media up to this point. You can't write that in "properly" without it being forced, or just contrived in some manner, because if Cortana sees it this way, the others are going to as well.

 

With that, proper writing would've made Osiris and Blue Team's family vs. squad relationship much more apparent and better, and I'd LOVE to see that expanded upon, because there were pangs of dialogue referring to the dynamic that really piqued my interest. Would've also made Thel and Locke's relationship much more like Chief and Arbiter's during Halo 2, which would've been really cool. It would've also possibly lead to a better ending for Jul 'Mdama, and resulted in more characterization for Warden Eternal, among other things. But to be fair and honest, those're also "what ifs", and looking into those "what ifs" is just frustrating, you know? It doesn't change what we have now. And even if you look  into it, you realize the flaws more so, on top of the good things that may have come to fruition. I think that's one of the worst flaws of Halo 5. It's at best "EH"  if you're a casual campaign runner. At it's worst... It's pretty damn terrible once you actually look into it. And that just sucks, more so to acknowledge.

 

Granted, through all this bitching, there WERE good things about it. Most Meridian and Sanghelios segments were great. Basically, levels without Cortana or the dumb Created plot. I loved the Arbiter. He made a REALLY good return in this game. And to be honest, the last cutscene he was in, where he stated they were "going to extinguish the Covenant's light FOREVAH!" was really damn hype inducing. Sanghelios and Meridian as a whole, up until the very ending involving the Guardians felt so... contained. What you were doing there was almost completely unrelated to Cortana, which I loved. You were searching for the Chief in the case of Meridian, and helping the Arbiter (Alongside finding a Constructor) with the latter. I LOVE these missions, a lot. Same for Blue Team, and the beginning of Genesis. Genesis' beginning especially had a really good sense of mystery and creepiness. To be honest, that'd have been the PERFECT level to introduce the Flood. The cutscene where John and Blue Team encounters Warden could've been replaced with them meeting a proto-Gravemind,  and it'd have not only fit, but have been a GOOD start for a tonal shift, where Genesis goes from bright and green, to darker and more sinister. You'd at least have a proper introduction to one of the two things that can actually destroy the Guardians, too. That's just a spitball, though.

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Complaining about thumbless Timmy running at you with an AR in a straight line in sub-plat may taint some of the validity you have with your arguments, just saying.

 

v4bE.gif

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The story in H5 was shit. Delivery is not the problem. Clarity is not the problem. In fact, having read all of the books and paid attention to all of the "Hunt the Truth" nonsense (that was completely irrelevant, it turns out) before launch, it's actually WORSE if you know what's going on. Well, what's going on as much as is possible when a good portion of what happens is completely out of left field, retcons or trivializes major events in previous books and games, and is in no way explained by the conclusion. Problems with the basic premises aside, in what way can a story be good if it was told poorly? That's silly. Remember when Halo 2 introduced a bunch of new concepts and characters that contradicted CE, made no sense, and weren't explained at all? I don't. Guardians tried and failed to follow that model.

 

 

I never said it was good.  And it is totally possible to have a good story become shit because of how you tell it.  Thats not really the case with Halo 5 because they made a "meh" story worse.  Content and presentation are different.

 

I agree 100% with the "Hunt the Truth" sentiment.  That audio series was soooo good.  then it had no tie-in to the game at all.  Totally irrelevant.

 

The reason chief has for going awol is shit.

the super-quick-with-little-thought-whatsoever declaration of chief being an enemy of the state was shit.

The boss fights were shit.

Zero real conflict within the teams themselves

3 "go talk to these 3 people" levels

limited time playing as blue team.

inability to actually play the most climactic part of the game.

no indication whatsoever of the gravity of what a guardian actually does when it awakens and destroys entire cities.  Why they didnt have a level with a populated human city center being destroyed by this thing is beyond me.  

 

Most of these things actually happened, but the gravity of what it all means was (at least by me) not felt in any way whatsoever.

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Yo so like, what's random about the movement in this game? I hear this complain a lot. Can you give me a specific scenario in an arena map used in tournament that the amount of options a player has is too much to react to?

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I mean, it's not like not having the intel will make you not get anything. I was just saying, in the case of one character (One you don't even see, mind you) you get an extra bit of context to their situation which makes their last line of dialogue more impacting. 

 

To that point... I'm going to disagree with you. With regards to where Halo 4 left us, and where Halo 5 took us, the latter's story really is a jump off a cliff compared to its predecessor.  That's bad writing aside, too. As I spoke on earlier, you have Cortana's return, the AI plot, and the killing or taking out of actual, major, well developed villains. Not to mention the lack of continuity between the two games. There're things that make it bad, even if you had good writing to go with it. I mean, you couldn't have a villain for Halo 5 if you had proper writing, because proper writing would entirely throw out the idea that Cortana would return in the first place, let alone become a terribly motivated dictator that should LITERALLY be able to see why, where, and how her plan would fail. 

 

Fuck, i forgot about Jul.  First mission , dead.  No lead up, no climax, no real education of the player about how important that character is.  Without prior knowledge, you're left thinking, "who the fuck..??"

 

You know what @ and @@arglactable .... screw you guys cuz you're right, and i'm wrong (and we know how much people on the internet hate being proven wrong).  ;) .  The Halo 5 campaign was a big fat turd and there aren't any parts that I can honestly defend and still feel good about myself.  EDIT: Im talking story elements here.

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Yo so like, what's random about the movement in this game? I hear this complain a lot. Can you give me a specific scenario in an arena map used in tournament that the amount of options a player has is too much to react to?

Have you seen the mess that is the sniper pit on Colosseum.

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Fuck, i forgot about Jul.  First mission , dead.  No lead up, no climax, no real education of the player about how important that character is.  Without prior knowledge, you're left thinking, "who the fuck..??"

 

You know what @ and @@arglactable .... screw you guys cuz you're right, and i'm wrong (and we know how much people on the internet hate being proven wrong).  ;) .  The Halo 5 campaign was a big fat turd and there aren't any parts that I can honestly defend and still feel good about myself.

Jul... And don't forget the Ur-Didact. XP Yunno, both characters had a set of novels and a part of Halo 4 dedicated to them. And BOTH were just dropped.

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Have you seen the mess that is the sniper pit on Colosseum.

can you explain further...?

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