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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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We all love Halo and we want the franchise good as it can be.

 

 

Come here, FLuFF. Give uncle Forerunner a huge hug

 

dr-evil-crying1.gif

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@@TTUVAPOR Great post.

 

And to expand on that, these forums in particular are by far the the most constructive and open-ended members of any notable Halo forum, by a huge margin. That's something not only to be proud of, but something the devs have frustratingly brushed off. Reddit and Waypoint are horrible formats for discussion for a variety of reasons (don't ban me for saying this because it's not OT and it's true as fuck), yet bravo/devs walk by every afternoon as if it's the cafe next door. It may have something to do with the fact that waypoint is their ugly baby and reddit is "the front page of the internet", but lets be real here; this is where all the good stuff is. When's the last time devs have set up a poll or opinion thread? Personally asked what somebody thinks about something? Explained the thoughts their team has had behind an aspect of game design?

 

A fucking long-ass time, if at all. When Frankie uses this place almost exclusively as a trolling platform (with the occasional vague acknowledgement) then that's a problem. Most of worthy news we've got from him has come GAF for christs sake.

 

I hate nonconstructive posts as much as the next guy but really its far from a problem, we don't nearly have the drama, the trolls, or nazi mods cough @@Matty McDee cough that other forums have and that's so awesome. And for every time FluFFy vents a waste of internet space, there's a bunch of older threads and posts talking about fresh ideas or new tricks or fresh :intel: or nerdy lore-talk. This place has, believe it or not, the least circle-jerking of any forum I've seen with a rep system, that's sick.

 

If the mods truely think something's a waste of time then just delete it - with a pm'ed reason, pls - before it gets neg bombed and we can get on with our lives. Our lives which are just bitching and moaning, apparently.

 

 

The reputation system is easily the worst part of TB. It gets abused so often that it isn't even funny.

 

You're essentially asking the mods to take it up a notch and delete different opinions to enforce the popular one.

 

Edit. Also, your font's broken. I have no idea what happened to half of your paragraph.

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@@EagleBurn man, I love when people disagree as that's how discussions happen. You went off the deep end on me a little there. Is there anything redeeming in pages of comments trashing the latest game in the primary series of this site? Call me crazy, but it's hard to see how that makes any stride toward improving the current game or future installments.

I think its just frustration. 343 doesn't seems to care or take into account community feedback or whining or whatever you want to call it. They're going to develop Halo in a way that appeals to them, trends to similar current gen games, and delivers them the most dollars to operate as a business. If they gave a shit, MCC would have been completely functional by now. Unfortunately for us as gamers it's just boils down to the return on investment for 343. It's business. It'd be nice to see them adopt the Bungie motto of "we build games we like to play" as opposed to how can we make more money with micro transactions. I think you either like 343's take on Halo or you don't. It's that simple. Right now I don't.

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I've yet to see any dev validate sprint and radar and other obviously stupid crap. If they had good design reasons they would post them to shut us up. Instead they ignore this forum or tell us to aderpt and only pay attention to beta feedback that only fanboys played, fanboys who have a passing interest in the design of the game at best or who are so biased that they don't consider rational arguments. 343 fail to realize just because a lot of people say they like sprint doesn't mean those people are aware of the design implications of it that cascade to other flaws in the game (radar, map design) which cause them to eventually stop playing. Not to mention a huge segment of the players who enjoy sprint are the type of players who move on to other games pretty quickly since they give them what they want but better (COD, battlefield, games where sprint fits the design of the game).

 

Sometimes a developer has to lead. They can't just follow beta testers majority opinion like a democracy. They are not experts. Imagine if Bungie back in 2000 asked people if they'd like regenerating health, vehicles, aim assist, jogging speed movement, and a two weapon limit. Hell even a dedicated grenade and melee button may have seemed pointless to many people. All of these things went against the grain at the time but worked especially for a controller FPS.

 

We need a dev who will lead the community with a well designed game and listen to arguments from people who know what they are talking about. If the game fails then they can just put sprint and shit back in next time. The population cannot get much worse than it is so I don't know why they don't try to go back to halo's roots like doom did to great success. It's worth the risk.

great post.

 

In my opinion, the only thing Doom went back to roots with was single player. The mp is anything but Doom.

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great post.

 

In my opinion, the only thing Doom went back to roots with was single player. The mp is anything but Doom.

Yeah I meant single player. Sorry if that was not clear.

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Played 5 games of FFA on expanded, .25 second delay on everything, gross. 

 

Switched to focused still lag, awesome. Just what I want when playing champions.

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I mean in the end we are all just fans of Halo. Which is why we are here. Shills and haters, every single person just wants a better Halo.

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I mean in the end we are all just fans of Halo. Which is why we are here. Shills and haters, every single person just wants a better Halo.

Well said and you sig is spot on.

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@@VinnyMendoza

 

Wanted to comment on your post again. I think there is still a fear in the game industry on the AAA side of publishing of allowing game designers to design a game they actually want to design versus a prefabricated design template set forth by publishing in order to meet sales quotas.

 

You see this less on indie games, but even on the indie side, nothing can touch these big budget games. Even with Reflex and whatever other Quake-clone out there... nothing still compares to an arena shooter like Quake.

 

Esreality. com has a quake thread saying that duel is what killed quake and that the majority of gamers dont want to play duel in an arena setting, they want team games... well, quake has always had a team component, duel was just the easier and more competitive form of the game... it was chess so to speak.

 

This all goes back to taking a game and designing from the ground up to challenge the player... no crutches, no handicaps, no accessibility nonsense... simply play the game, invest time in the game and learn the game.

 

Publishers worry about their sales and try to use the micro transactions and/or episodic dlc as a means of keeping players for the long run... but that's just cosmetics that have zero lasting power.

 

I look at Diablo 3 and my god... that game is practically night and day diff from what launched... and they arent selling micro shit or season passes... they're building that game's brand and enhancing the game for games sakes... and they have only released one expansion pack! I think the game is all in one now including the expansion of Reaper of Souls, but anyway... if Halo were given the same treatment, the Halo population would have more staying power... instead, they're trying to get players to buy cosmetic flair and crwft up some good marketing promos saying they're giving us free conetent in form of maps, reqs, game modes, etc.

 

How stupid do they believe we really are?

 

 

Edit: http://www.esreality.com/post/2816742/an-exposition-on-why-quake-failed/

 

A good read, especially the replies. The argument that street fighter is still a globally popular game and basically has no inherent crutches for casuals is a good example that it can be done.

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Street Fighter is still accessible compared to something like EVE Online. I definitely would not say throw accessibility out the window because your game will likely suffer population problems. Halo 1 got huge because of its accessibility imo. Your new players need to be able to pick up on a lot of mechanics naturally because hardly anybody wants to go to a forum before they ever start and invest time before they get a feel for the actual game to see if they really enjoy it.

 

You need a well designed skill curve instead of just throwing deep meta out completely because you think the game needs to be easy for everyone to keep them interested. Nah... Actual skill progression is what made halo 1 so popular for so long. There was no number beside your name, just your own feeling about how good you were getting as well as word of mouth reputation and bragging rights. That's what can keep people playing without using cheap tricks like an experience system that only promote you to keep playing instead of actually getting better at the game.

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Also this here is utter bullshit:

 

 

Game developers in my opinion are conceded assholes who care more about their position status than they do actually designing games.

 

He's not talking about the guy at the bottom of the corporate ladder working weekends and holydays. He's talking about the higher ups who call the shots and think they are "so innovative", but all they really do is sit in their ivory tower making poor design decisions that will have to be reverted in the next installment of the game.

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He's not talking about the guy at the bottom of the corporate ladder working weekends and holydays. He's talking about the higher ups who call the shots and think they are "so innovative", but all they really do is sit in their ivory tower making poor design decisions that will have to be reverted in the next installment of the game.

No, Josh Holmes, Quinn Delhoyo etc. are not assholes because they made some design decisions you disagree with.

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No, Josh Holmes, Quinn Delhoyo etc. are not assholes because they made some design decisions you disagree with.

You don't know that.

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You don't know that.

Yeah, they didn't like the cut of TTUVAPORs jib so they intentionally designed halo 5 to be the opposite of what he wants just to piss him off, the pricks.

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You don't know that.

Yes I do.

 

Calling someone an asshole because they designed a video game in a way you disagree with is, as I said before, utter bullshit.

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You don't know that.

What is this nonsense that I'm reading?

 

I don't know the devs personally, but it is possible that many of them are assholes. That's the case with anyone I've heard of but haven't personally met.

 

However, making design choices that I may disagree with does not make them that potential asshole.

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Yes I do.

 

Calling someone an asshole because they designed a video game in a way you disagree with is, as I said before, utter bullshit.

When a designer admits their design was intentionally to cater to the entry level player at a cost of the skill integrity of the game... and then doesn't want to hear feedback/criticism of how it could maybe be designed differently, in other words, compromise... then yes, they're assholes, pretentious assholes. Just because you get paid top dollar to call the shots and design games doesnt automatically make you a game design master... it's a craft like any other design craft.

 

 

The designers who are assholes are ones that run away from the community the moment their design is questioned.

 

I still to this day cringe at when Josh or whoever it was, said that sprint is in Halo 5 because it's what players expect. Really? What players? That's a reasoning behind a game design choice? How about stating how does it enhance the game or what are the positives that the feature brings to the game?

 

Then you got old school Bungie back in Halo 3 days admitting the BR was intentionally designed to where only the first bullet of the three round burst was the highest accurate shot, while the 2nd and 3rd bullets intentionally lost accuracy... all because they said the BR is not a long range weapon and is meant to solely be a gun to ping snipers out of scope and produce medium range kills. A designer admitted to adding intentional randomness... makes me so angry everytime i go back and read that old weekly update.

 

http://halo.bungie.net/news/content.aspx?cid=14347

 

Im not a game designer, im a player, and i do not like being given lies and misleading answers to legitimate game design questions. Instead of saying sprint is what players expect... why not actually tell the damn truth?

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When a designer admits their design was intentionally to cater to the entry level player at a cost of the skill integrity of the game... and then doesn't want to hear feedback/criticism of how it could maybe be designed differently, in other words, compromise... then yes, they're assholes, pretentious assholes. Just because you get paid top dollar to call the shots and design games doesnt automatically make you a game design master... it's a craft like any other design craft.

 

 

The designers who are assholes are ones that run away from the community the moment their design is questioned.

 

I still to this day cringe at when Josh or whoever it was, said that sprint is in Halo 5 because it's what players expect. Really? What players? That's a reasoning behind a game design choice? How abut stating how it enhances the game or what are the positives that the feature brings to the game?

 

Then you got old school Bungie back in Halo 3 days admitting the BR was intentionally designed to where only the first bullet of the three round burst was the highest accurate shot, while the 2nd and 3rd bullets intentionally lost accuracy... all because they said the BR is not a long range weapon and is meant to solely be a gun to ping snipers out of scope and produce medium range kills. A designer admitted to adding intentional randomness... makes me so angry everytime i go back and read that old weekly update.

 

http://halo.bungie.net/news/content.aspx?cid=14347

 

Im not a game designer, im a player, and i do not like being given lies and misleading answers to legitimate game design questions. Instead of saying sprint is what players expect... why not actually tell the damn truth?

I dunno if I'd go so far as to call them assholes for that. I would call them pretentious assholes for telling us to aderpt and that we have confirmation bias.

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No, Josh Holmes, Quinn Delhoyo etc. are not assholes because they made some design decisions you disagree with.

 

First, I didn't call names like you just did.

Second, I'm not saying making decisions that I personally not fond of makes someone an asshole, I said that sitting in an ivory tower and making decision for the community while at the same time conveniently ignoring said community and acting like you know better even though you don't makes you an asshole.

 

EDIT:

 

 

I dunno if I'd go so far as to call them assholes for that. I would call them pretentious assholes for telling us to aderpt and that we have confirmation bias.

 

This

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I dunno if I'd go so far as to call them assholes for that. I would call them pretentious assholes for telling us to aderpt and that we have confirmation bias.

im very biased based on past experiences with dev conversations, and it's made me turn cynical toward games lol.

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Have any of you actually read the br weekly update from halo 3 back in 2008?

 

aways loved these parts:

 

 

The result of the “tweaked” Halo 2 Battle Rifle was a weapon that functioned astonishingly well at short, medium and long range. It was utilitarian and when coupled with a mountain of button combinations, astonishingly lethal. Arguably too lethal.

Halo 3’s Battle Rifle, as we’ve discussed before, while similar in some respects to Halo 2’s – it is still the Battle Rifle, it still fires three-round bursts, has had its functionality changed and now the Rifle performs much differently from its H2 predecessor.

Admittedly, it can certainly be jarring to see the weapon look nearly identically to a previous iteration and have its performance be different from what you’d expect. That is the case in Halo 3, and it is the case for a number of reasons.

 

 

 

The Battle Rifle works this way because after Halo 2 it was retuned to be a reliable headshot and anti-sniper weapon (in terms of pinging Snipers at distance from their scoped-in state). The first bullet in the burst fills this role – it is quite accurate (identical to the Halo 2 BR, but with a travel time), and will kill an unshielded unit with a headshot or ping a sniper.

 

Another design goal with the Battle Rifle in Halo 3 was to bring the kill-range closer. One way this was achieved was by giving bullets 2 and 3 from the BR a wider error, which makes them less likely to land outside of the BR’s intended effective range. Summarily, this reduces the BR’s effectiveness AND damage output at those ranges, without compromising its ability to finish a target at the same range.

 

This change allows the Battle Rifle to be competitive in terms of damage output at closer-than-Halo 2-levels, without being so effective at longer range, that players caught in the open are gunned down too quickly (that task in Halo 3’s sandbox belongs to the Sniper Rifle. If you need to control a space 30wu [world units] away, use it instead).

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