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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Can someone talk me out of adjusting my sensitivity post-update so that the horizontal/vertical sens match? Is there a reason why I wouldn't want to do that? Obviously I'll have to feel it out, but I'm already headcasing about aim after getting somewhat comfortable playing on 4/4.

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I'm sure population divide is a fair argument, but the reason I hate Infection/Grifball/Action Sack being permanent playlists is that it takes away from the competitive identity of the game.

 

When people think of League of Legends or CS:GO, you automatically have an image of what the game is, what it looks and feels like (and this image is cemented even further by eSports). When people play Halo, they can think of Race, Machinima, Action Sack, Grifball, Infection, BTB, Warzone, HCS, etc.

 

Bungie dug us a grave for the game's image by supporting these niches, and now people are conditioned to expect the full developer treatment to support their favorite bits and pieces of the game.

 

I'm personally very happy that they are going to be removing Grifball. Not because I don't like the mode (I love playing it when it's rotational and treated as a unique niche experience), but because it alongside Infection would detract from the game's image as a whole.

 

Interesting theory, never actually heard that before. League does work in that system, fun game modes etc... come on rotation every few months. 

 

But as Cooper said, these are console shooters. I'd understand what you're saying if Halo was released as a multiplayer only game, but at the end of the day when most people think of Halo, they think of Chief and the campaign surrounding the universe first, then multiplayer and everything else. 

 

It's kind of a waste tbh, all these beautiful maps forgers have put effort into making, just to have it disappear every now and then from online play. League and games similar to that don't really have that issue as most of the fun game modes are all featured on the same map.

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It's funny because before I submitted that post I had a line predicting that you would say that :lxthul:

 

And that's why the game is never going to be what it could potentially be. Without a cohesive vision and identity, the game will always have wedges driven through its population.

Those wedges will always exist. Even if 343 presents a uniform game. This was a relevant discussion for the launch of H2 or even hce. Not now.

 

But if bungie didn't support niche communities, would we even be here? If all h2 was was default smg spawns, where would halo be now?

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That comes out tonight does it not?

 

I'll probably pick it up.

 

The fact that there are no reviews is kind of sketchy though.

Yea, I never know why Bethesda does that sometimes. I'll let you know if it's any good. I'm going to keep track of playtime in case I want to return it if it sucks. 

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Look how boring and slow this looks without sprint! 

 

WOAH! LOOK AT ALL THE WEAPONS YOU CAN SWITCH BETWEEN! I BET YOU KIDS HAVE NEVER HEARD OF HOLDING MORE THAN 2 WEAPONS BEFORE

 

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That comes out tonight does it not?

 

I'll probably pick it up.

 

The fact that there are no reviews is kind of sketchy though.

Reviewers aren't getting the game until launch. Something to do with a Day 1 patch

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But as Cooper said, these are console shooters. I'd understand what you're saying if Halo was released as a multiplayer only game, but at the end of the day when most people think of Halo, they think of Chief and the campaign surrounding the universe first, then multiplayer and everything else. 

 

The fanaticism for Halo's campaign is an entirely different topic.

 

But on the topic of console shooters, imagine if Call of Duty had fewer modes that were all played 4v4? eSports would suddenly become a lot more relatable and the CoD developers would have a much easier time balancing the maps for those purpose built modes.

 

Those wedges will always exist. Even if 343 presents a uniform game. This was a relevant discussion for the launch of H2 or even hce. Not now.

 

But if bungie didn't support niche communities, would we even be here? If all h2 was was default smg spawns, where would halo be now?

 

I know, and it's only gotten worse because of developer decisions. CE launched with Big maps (Blood Gulch), janky maps (Chiron), and Arena-style maps (Chill Out) and had a ton of different settings (Plasma Pistol starts, lol). Regardless of that, the core gameplay still resembled each other. Grifball resembles nothing of what Halo is.

 

It's only gotten worse since then and streamlining the game's vision is desperately needed.

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WOAH! LOOK AT ALL THE WEAPONS YOU CAN SWITCH BETWEEN! I BET YOU KIDS HAVE NEVER HEARD OF HOLDING MORE THAN 2 WEAPONS BEFORE

 

Two weapon limit works really well for Halo. 

 

Sprint/thrust not so much. 

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Two weapon limit works really well for Halo. 

 

Sprint/thrust not so much. 

I'm not arguing that, I'm just pointing out that much of the weapons switching in Doom 4 SP is superfluous.

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I've been saying for awhile that a streamlined gameplay vision would go far to make Halo relevant again.

 

This notion that every new Halo has to have every gametype, gun, vehicle, custom game, map, playlist, AND more on top of that is completely unrealistic.

 

Ffs there are still people crying for Koth to come back. Why? What objective virtue does koth have over SH? You'd be better off reintroducing extraction than that.

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I've been saying for awhile that a streamlined gameplay vision would go far to make Halo relevant again.

 

This notion that every new Halo has to have every gametype, gun, vehicle, custom game, map, playlist, AND more on top of that is completely unrealistic.

 

Ffs there are still people crying for Koth to come back. Why? What objective virtue does koth have over SH? You'd be better off reintroducing extraction than that.

 

 

I don't even think it's as much about additions and content than it is presentation. They presented Grifball as a 'core mode' by leaving it in the MM rotation for so long, and that rips away from the 'competitive' identity that they advertised for Arena.

 

Imagine if Grifball just rolled around once a month as a niche double XP experience, everyone would hop in for a few games, myself included.

 

Exhibit B: Rocket League releases random niche modes like Ice Hockey and Hoops (Basketball), but keeps the core presentation intact. And then of course, those modes are available to players in Custom Games.

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WOAH! LOOK AT ALL THE WEAPONS YOU CAN SWITCH BETWEEN! I BET YOU KIDS HAVE NEVER HEARD OF HOLDING MORE THAN 2 WEAPONS BEFORE

 

if nothing else I'll play this games sp.

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The fanaticism for Halo's campaign is an entirely different topic.

 

But on the topic of console shooters, imagine if Call of Duty had fewer modes that were all played 4v4? eSports would suddenly become a lot more relatable and the CoD developers would have a much easier time balancing the maps for those purpose built modes.

 

 

I know, and it's only gotten worse because of developer decisions. CE launched with Big maps (Blood Gulch), janky maps (Chiron), and Arena-style maps (Chill Out) and had a ton of different settings (Plasma Pistol starts, lol). Regardless of that, the core gameplay still resembled each other. Grifball resembles nothing of what Halo is.

 

It's only gotten worse since then and streamlining the game's vision is desperately needed.

 

I'd agree if we were talking about Halo 3 or Reach, but all Halo 5 arena matches are created for arena only. Thats why we have no dev made grifball, infection (heavily edited) or btb maps.

 

Warzone ont he other hand, I'd say the creation of that mode definitely had an effect on keeping sprint in the game. So I can kinda see your point.

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It's funny because before I submitted that post I had a line predicting that you would say that  :lxthul:

 

And that's why the game is never going to be what it could potentially be. Without a cohesive vision and identity, the game will always have wedges driven through its population.

 

Halo at its peak was a simple gameplay foundation with extensive customization features to tailor the experience for how you wanted to play it. I played throughout the original trilogy in many different contexts, LAN, splitscreen, online, competitive, casual, co-op...the game facilitated great experiences regardless of the crowd you were with. Halo 5 is the worst game in the series at doing this.

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I'd agree if we were talking about Halo 3 or Reach, but all Halo 5 arena matches are created for arena only. Thats why we have no dev made grifball, infection (heavily edited) or btb maps.

 

Warzone ont he other hand, I'd say the creation of that mode definitely had an effect on keeping sprint in the game. So I can kinda see your point.

 

 

I'm not referring to gameplay stuff either like Sprint or weapon balance or anything like that.

 

Halo 5 at launch was probably the most cohesive experience we've had in a Halo game. Universal settings, Arena maps all designed for the same purpose, minimal modes that were built from the ground up for those maps, a rich Warzone experience that was actually handled extremely well, and advertised/presented as separate from Arena. The only stump leg was Breakout because it just was kinda off to the side.

 

The game wasn't spread too thin. But as I said, people are conditioned to expect certain things out of a Halo game, so the demands for Infection, BTB, and more started rolling in and slowly chipped away at that uniformity.

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Halo at its peak was a simple gameplay foundation with extensive customization features to tailor the experience for how you wanted to play it. I played throughout the original trilogy in many different contexts, LAN, splitscreen, online, competitive, casual, co-op...the game facilitated great experiences regardless of the crowd you were with. Halo 5 is the worst game in the series at doing this.

 

Offering players different ways to play the game is fine (CS:GO offers tons of UGC tools to players), but presenting them and making them a staple part of the game's identity is not.

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Exhibit B: Rocket League releases random niche modes like Ice Hockey and Hoops (Basketball), but keeps the core presentation intact. And then of course, those modes are available to players in Custom Games.

 

Rocket League also has Doubles.

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I'm not referring to gameplay stuff either like Sprint or weapon balance or anything like that.

 

Halo 5 at launch was probably the most cohesive experience we've had in a Halo game. Universal settings, Arena maps all designed for the same purpose, minimal modes that were built from the ground up for those maps, a rich Warzone experience that was actually handled extremely well, and advertised/presented as separate from Arena. The only stump leg was Breakout because it just was kinda off to the side.

 

The game wasn't spread too thin. But as I said, people are conditioned to expect certain things out of a Halo game, so the demands for Infection, BTB, and more started rolling in and slowly chipped away at that uniformity.

 

If you had to re-do the entirety of the Halo 5 launch would you have done pretty much the same thing that 343 did?

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I don't mind having permanent mini game playlists. They've become just as a staple to Halo as Slayer and CTF have and people expect them to be in just as much.

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Reviewers aren't getting the game until launch. Something to do with a Day 1 patch

Makes it tough to make a midnight purchase decision though.

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If you had to re-do the entirety of the Halo 5 launch would you have done pretty much the same thing that 343 did?

 

 

I'd have had 1-2 more game modes for Arena, Forge and Infection at launch, Double XP Weekends, No Radar across all of Arena (cohesive boyz) and a few other things.

 

Obviously I have stuff about the actual gameplay and balance that I'd want to change as well but in terms of the game I was very satisfied with H5's Vanilla package.

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Offering players different ways to play the game is fine (CS:GO offers tons of UGC tools to players), but presenting them and making them a staple part of the game's identity is not.

 

But the game was most successful when it was presented that way. People went "holy crap, look at the things you can do in that game, look at how crazy it is, damn it's also played competitively." That was why Halo 3 stayed in our disc trays for months at a time.

 

Having casual lists gets people playing and learning the game, which in turn gets them into the more competitive modes.

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The fanaticism for Halo's campaign is an entirely different topic.

 

But on the topic of console shooters, imagine if Call of Duty had fewer modes that were all played 4v4? eSports would suddenly become a lot more relatable and the CoD developers would have a much easier time balancing the maps for those purpose built modes.

 

 

I know, and it's only gotten worse because of developer decisions. CE launched with Big maps (Blood Gulch), janky maps (Chiron), and Arena-style maps (Chill Out) and had a ton of different settings (Plasma Pistol starts, lol). Regardless of that, the core gameplay still resembled each other. Grifball resembles nothing of what Halo is.

 

It's only gotten worse since then and streamlining the game's vision is desperately needed.

i just disagree. I see customisation as being one of the pillars of Halo. Halo 3 was the pinnacle of this series' popularity because it somehow managed to appeal to practically everyone. Which, in a console release is very important.

 

I think trying to appeal to a diverse console audience by giving them one streamlined experience is essentially impossible. H5 somewhat tried it and it was disastrous. You had a game that most competitive players didn't find competitive/skill based enough and a game that most casual players didn't think was casual/fun enough.

 

Designing an MP game for PC is very different because the PC as a platform has an inherent barrier of entry which creates a much more "hardcore" audience.

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