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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Ya, on paper it looks good. In practice the arena dlc maps have actually somehow managed to make the game worse.

 

Well I mean now were discussing quality and personally I'd agree, they're not all that great. But I've felt the same way about all previous Halo DLC maps so idk. So far Tyrant looks to be the best of all post launch arena maps.

 

At least its good content for the social side, kinda makes me wish they blocked off bits of Warzone maps, tinkered a bit with it and stuck it into BTB. Dunno why 343 are so inefficient at capitalising on this stuff.

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2016 and we still going strong.

 

I just logged into my account in quite some time, and I have 115 days played on it.

 

Also super jealous of that OG name. It's rare to see those 3 character names.

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Maps that reuse any major areas of another map already in the game is lazy, I don't care if it's not expected of them to give us new maps, that just shows how low we think of them.

 

Are we talking about assets used in remixes or the bases used in Warzone? The latter is probably due to balance and consistency,

 

With regards to the former, it's common place for games to re-use a lot of their assets for post launch content? Heck a recent example is looking at BattleFront and the new $12 DLC, those maps HEAVILY re-use previous assets and they're being charged for it.

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Totally wrong and unfair. Noctus, Skirmish, Torque are not remixes or half-effort maps, nor should remixes even be called "half-effort maps", also I'm pretty sure Tyrant is also not a remix (never been called that way by 343, unlike the actual remixes). Only thing which is half-effort and presented as "new and fresh" are the Assault variants of the warzone maps.

 

Also the remixes exist because creating 1 totally original map a month free is not something which I really expect, especially considering everything else which it is released with. Most of the remixes play differently enough and look different enough. Plaza to Overgrowth, Fathom to Riptide etc... In fact Statis is the only map thus far which I would say had the least effort put.

Caught me out on a blanket statement. Torque, Skirmish aren't remixes, but they're not good maps either. Noctus is the only one I consider a net positive DLC map, and that existed before release anyway (so maybe lump it in the delayed content pile). Map remixes are far from ideal and aren't worth a whole number on the map count, but that's another story and I'd rather not revive my long-ass post on that.
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Well I mean now were discussing quality and personally I'd agree, they're not all that great. But I've felt the same way about all previous Halo DLC maps so idk. So far Tyrant looks to be the best of all post launch arena maps.

 

At least its good content for the social side, kinda makes me wish they blocked off bits of Warzone maps, tinkered a bit with it and stuck it into BTB. Dunno why 343 are so inefficient at capitalising on this stuff.

Standoff(free)

rats nest(free)

forge map(free)

 

cold storage(free)

 

blackout

avalanche

ghost town

 

heretic

citadel

assembly

forge map 2

orbital

longhsore

 

 

Orbital is the only horrible map there. Overgrowth and riptide are both horrible. Torgue is close to horrible as well.

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Standoff(free)

rats nest(free)

forge map(free)

 

cold storage(free)

 

blackout

avalanche

ghost town

 

heretic

citadel

assembly

forge map 2

orbital

longhsore

 

 

Orbital is the only horrible map there. Overgrowth and riptide are both horrible. Torgue is close to horrible as well.

Sandbox, the goat.

 

Skybubble

Flat area in middle

Crypt

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Orbital is the only horrible map there. 

 

Ghost Town was pretty bad.

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Standoff(free)

rats nest(free)

forge map(free)

 

cold storage(free)

 

blackout

avalanche

ghost town

 

heretic

citadel

assembly

forge map 2

orbital

longhsore

 

 

Orbital is the only horrible map there. Overgrowth and riptide are both horrible. Torgue is close to horrible as well.

 

I'll be honest I don't really remember H3 DLC maps really well as my main experiences with them are from MCC. Bungie just got maps more right.

 

I think I'm confusing this with Halo Reach and the other way round, it was the Halo Reach launch maps I hated, because it was all straight up taken out of campaign (or put into campaign to use for MP), and it was the DLC maps I liked.

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Are we talking about assets used in remixes or the bases used in Warzone? The latter is probably due to balance and consistency,

Sure man, I think every map from now on should have Lockout's library and Sanctuary's ring because of how balanced and consistent they are.

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True. I'll have a look around and see if there are any more examples.

 

bB1BOdf.png

 

2016 and we still going strong.

 

 

The godly old DFS and Bandos. HNNNNGGGG

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Are we talking about assets used in remixes or the bases used in Warzone? The latter is probably due to balance and consistency,

 

With regards to the former, it's common place for games to re-use a lot of their assets for post launch content? Heck a recent example is looking at BattleFront and the new $12 DLC, those maps HEAVILY re-use previous assets and they're being charged for it.

I'm talking about entire sections of map geometry being reused.

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The main problem that I have in Halo is that they are designing guns like the Boltshot that are just useless, and then designing guns like the Storm Rifle that are just brain dead OP.

 

I think Halo should look at games like Unreal Tournament for interesting weapon design. More interesting weapons = sicker plays.

 

@@Infinity this should answer your question. Sandbox should be designed for all levels of play, not just for low level bronzes.

 
Wanted to respond to this from the Pro thread without de-railing the thread, so replying here.
 
I feel like this hits the nail on the head.  (And, although I will defend using the existing sandbox to its fullest...I still think the existing sandbox is a disappointment.)
 
The Boltshot implementation in H4 was a mistake.  Period.  Arming a player with the ability to spawn with a one-shot kill weapon was a mistake.  But it wasn't a bad concept.  The idea of a charge-up shot AND a headshot pistol combined into one weapon was really cool.
 
But the problem was the fact that they combined it into a weapon that was basically a handheld OHK shotgun.
 
If they'd instead made it so the Boltshot charge was enough damage to deplete shields but not kill (AND not take as much ammo, maybe take about 1/3 of a 12-bullet clip instead of half of a 10) -- then it becomes a more skillful weapon to use (and you can increase its effective range slightly without making the gun overpowered).  3 uncharged shots on a no shields opponent to kill, or one uncharged headshot.  So you charge up, deplete their shields, then finish with a headshot.
 
With this kind of design, you'd turn the Boltshot into a Promethean predecessor to the Plasma Pistol, as it was explained to be in the Lore, rather than bastardize it into a tracking-shot nightmare that destroys vehicle drivers in Warzone Firefight any time you spawn more than a handful of those dog things in one area and can't find use at a pro level because a simple thrust and strafe throws off the tracking for too long to keep up with a pistol fire.
 
And it still maintains a higher skill gap because the proper way to finish someone off remains with a headshot, which requires good aim.  Still maintains viability at lower levels of play because 2 charged shots, or charged + body, or charged + melee can all kill someone quickly.
 
 
 
Same for the Needler, a weapon that is and always has been my favorite weapon in Halo by concept -- a tracking shot weapon that, if enough shots land, kills someone.  But because strafing makes the weapon all but useless unless you pull off a perfect flank, the weapon can't keep up at higher levels.  So why not factor in the Halo MELEE button into the gun's design?  I know if I were sending an army of ill-equipped grunts to battle against the FUCKING MASTER CHIEF, with their primary gun being something that they have to land a certain number of shots, I'd equip a panic mode to fire all the shots if the FUCKING MASTER CHIEF got too close.  Make the melee button discharge all the remaining Needles in a uniform cone, like a shotgun...making the Needle a powerful CQB weapon at all levels of play.
 
 
The Halo 5 gun design took the guns in a rather bland, disappointing direction.

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I'm talking about entire sections of map geometry being reused.

 

Not really sure I see that in the remixes. Overgrowth plays and looks NOTHING like Plaza, sure re-used bits of geometry such as the cafe stairs (minus the actual stairs) and cars with moss etc... 

 

At the end of the day I paid $0 post launch. Also Overgrowth Strongholds is something I actually quite enjoyed :S

 

I don't really have anything else to add to the topic.

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Not really sure I see that in the remixes. Overgrowth plays and looks NOTHING like Plaza, sure re-used bits of geometry such as the cafe stairs (minus the actual stairs) and cars with moss etc... 

 

At the end of the day I paid $0 post launch. Also Overgrowth Strongholds is something I actually quite enjoyed :S

 

I don't really have anything else to add to the topic.

Eh. Overgrowth looks very similar to Plaza. 

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Eh. Overgrowth looks very similar to Plaza. 

 

I had no idea it was actually a remix until someone told me in game, though this was after a small break. I just thought it was some human city map until I saw the writing etc... Maybe I'm just stupid. 

 

Probably the latter

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Ghost Town was pretty bad.

The only gametype that is enjoyable in Ghost Town is Infection. Everything else was garbo in my opinion.

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I had no idea it was actually a remix until someone told me in game, though this was after a small break. I just thought it was some human city map until I saw the writing etc... Maybe I'm just stupid. 

 

Probably the latter

 

The entire area where camo spawns is ripped almost directly from Plaza with minor differences.

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Not really sure I see that in the remixes. Overgrowth plays and looks NOTHING like Plaza, sure re-used bits of geometry such as the cafe stairs (minus the actual stairs) and cars with moss etc...

 

At the end of the day I paid $0 post launch. Also Overgrowth Strongholds is something I actually quite enjoyed :S

 

I don't really have anything else to add to the topic.

the fathom remix uses entire sections of that map again, overgrowth reuses the hallways, and all the war zone assault maps change little.

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No party restrictions is the biggest glaring issue in the game. It makes ranks pointless.

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Standoff(free)

rats nest(free)

forge map(free)

 

cold storage(free)

 

blackout

avalanche

ghost town

 

heretic

citadel

assembly

forge map 2

orbital

longhsore

 

 

Orbital is the only horrible map there. Overgrowth and riptide are both horrible. Torgue is close to horrible as well.

 

Now compare that to the maps that were in Halo 3 at launch vs the maps in Halo 5 at launch.

 

Construct

Epitaph

Guardian

High Ground

Isolation

Narrows

Snowbound

The Pit

Last Resort

Valhalla

Sandtrap

 

Coliseum

Eden

Empire

Fathom

Plaza

Regret

The Rig

Truth

Breakout Arena - (Altitude, Crossfire, Gambol, Trench, Trident)

Alpine - (Pegasus, Orion)

Escape from A.R.C.

March on Stormbreak

Raid on Apex 7

 

I've bolded the maps I think were good, left maps I thought were okay untouched, italicized below average maps, and put outright BAD maps in underlined italics.

 

(If you're wondering why The Pit is in Italics, two reasons: 1) The map was shit for Slayer, and 2) the Launch version of the map had the attics open.  It took an update to make the map playable.)

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Chiming in on the remix conversation:

 

  • Regret/Truth: Average change in aesthetic, average change in gameplay
  • Riptide/Fathom: Very little change in aesthetic, large change in gameplay
  • Overgrowth/Plaza: Large change in aesthetic, large change in gameplay
  • Torque/Stasis: Very little change in aesthetic, very little change in gameplay
  • Tyrant/Coliseum: Large change in aesthetic, large change in gameplay
  • Empire/Eden: Barely any change in aesthetic, massive change in gameplay

A remix is fine in my books as long as they dramatically change the visuals and the gameplay. Obviously I want the map to actually play well but that's an entirely different topic. Complaining about the reuse of assets isn't connected to bad map design IMO

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Coliseum

Eden

Empire

Fathom

Plaza

Regret

The Rig

Truth

Breakout Arena - (Altitude, Crossfire, Gambol, Trench, Trident)

Alpine - (Pegasus, Orion)

Escape from A.R.C.

March on Stormbreak

Raid on Apex 7

Regret being better than Eden, Rig, and Truth  :wutface:

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