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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Is it crazy to say I would actually really enjoy World at War 2?? I had a lot of fun with the original. Probably more so than I did with MW2, Black Ops, MW3, BO2 and whatever else came in between them/ after them. The original MW is still my favourite though. I probably shouldn't be talking about COD here but oh well.

 

I'm looking forward to gaming the hell out of this beta, regardless of anything I'm going to have as much fun as I can and then I'll actually be able to talk about what I think needs to change.

 

Edit: Halo 4 is the exact reason you do a beta. Ordinance drops would have been destroyed in seconds. Although it was fun getting a damage boost against horrible people. (Which thanks to the lack of ranks happened a lot)

If you are talking about CoD, No you aren't Crazy. Going Back to WW2 with a gritty style like WaW would be the thing that CoD needed for me to get back into it. I was thinking about that. I hate this trend that they keep going into the future and adding new dumb features Go back in WW2, Keep some features but go back to the basics but with a good style.Hard to explain what I mean. 

 

man this makes me sad now. In some aspects 343 is definitely trying to get the CoD audience with Halo 5 but CoD is the worse way to go CoDs trend is just to throw new not every thought out features on to each other and hope it succeeds. And thing wonder why it fails. Get the great sales at the start and not care that most people with an intention span drop your game within the first 2 weeks. Sort of like Halo 4. At least that is how CoD is for me and my group. I stopped buying it all together.

 

Halo shouldn't go that route. I'm spewing a lot BS from just one post but it got me thinking in a bad way. But to be on topic of the off topic, CoD should go back to WW2 and lose some features. Keep stuff like the sights that WaW and maybe a little more customization than WaW. But don't go extreme like with the new CoD trend of going 400 years in the future with features that have feature so you can feature while you feature a feature. WaW, MW2 and MW were the best CoDs for a reason. I can't pinpoint it but it has something to do with me being 14ish and the game being simple but with flare. 

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If you are talking about CoD, No you aren't Crazy. Going Back to WW2 with a gritty style like WaW would be the thing that CoD needed for me to get back into it. I was thinking about that. I hate this trend that they keep going into the future and adding new dumb features Go back in WW2, Keep some features but go back to the basics but with a good style.Hard to explain what I mean. 

 

man this makes me sad now. In some aspects 343 is definitely trying to get the CoD audience with Halo 5 but CoD is the worse way to go CoDs trend is just to throw new not every thought out features on to each other and hope it succeeds. And thing wonder why it fails. Get the great sales at the start and not care that most people with an intention span drop your game within the first 2 weeks. Sort of like Halo 4. At least that is how CoD is for me and my group. I stopped buying it all together.

 

Halo shouldn't go that route. I'm spewing a lot BS from just one post but it got me thinking in a bad way. But to be on topic of the off topic, CoD should go back to WW2 and lose some features. Keep stuff like the sights that WaW and maybe a little more customization than WaW. But don't go extreme like with the new CoD trend of going 400 years in the future with features that have feature so you can feature while you feature a feature. WaW, MW2 and MW were the best CoDs for a reason. I can't pinpoint it but it has something to do with me being 14ish and the game being simple but with flare. 

An amazing dog that stunned an entire generation with it's amazing acts had a owner who never expected to be blessed with such an amazing thing. Over the years, the owner realised this dog's potential, and forced it to do it's bidding.

 

The dog eventually snapped, and ran away from home. Abused and weak, a new owner found it in a ditch, and swore that it would protect it's legacy. However, this new owner had different ideals once again, and forced this dog to eat the same crappy food that the old owner did, and beated it the same way, yelling at him "Do these tricks, this could appeal to a wider audience!" The dog eventually submitted to this new owner's vision, as he could not bear the thought of sleeping through those harsh winter nights again in the ditch.

 

The dog had a name. It was called Halo.

 

(Shitty story but whatever, Classic Halo is dead at this point, as the identity of Halo has been warped into something not recognisable anymore. It is a sad thing to admit. Halo 5 is fun, but it would be even more fun if it held homage to the original trilogy. H5G can be fun like I said, but it basically is a super refined Halo Reach/4 Hybrid. It still traces back to those god awful games, as the new game still has mechanics like Sprint and Flinch. You can blame Bungie for starting the trend or 343 for continuing it, but basically it is a sad state of events, especially with the recent MCC launch. Developers should look at not only the glory days of 2001 to 2010, but the days of 2010 to now. They should note, that change for the sake of change, is never a good thing.)

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Because we totally have random personal ordnance, random map drops, loadouts, and perks again. 

 

 

Idiot.

Woah dude. Don't know where that came from. :o

 

Yeah, Halo 5 has improved in many ways over Halo 4, but 343 have still made many questionable decisions for people to be worried about. Though I'm not sure I'd argue that Halo 5 will be as random as Halo 4. I agree that Halo 5 seems to be a lot more predictable. Still so much stuff to be worried about, though.

 

I'm happy perks have gone, but now I'm worried about skill jumping being nerfed due to Clamber.

I'm happy personal ordnance isn't there, but now I'm worried about their decision to include Smarscope with hipfire flinch and tighter spread when scoped.

I'm happy loadouts are gone, but now I'm worried about how overpowered Ground Pound often looks.

I'm happy we're back to having lower aim assist, but now I'm worried about dudebro spartans, annoying spartan chatter, and a medal system that aims to make low skilled players feel like they're always doing an incredible job.

I'm happy they've made some kind of an effort to make sprint less useful, but I'm still worried that it's even there.

 

Is it crazy to say I would actually really enjoy World at War 2?? I had a lot of fun with the original. Probably more so than I did with MW2, Black Ops, MW3, BO2 and whatever else came in between them/ after them. The original MW is still my favourite though. I probably shouldn't be talking about COD here but oh well.

I'd love the same thing. I actually enjoyed World at War more than most of the other Call of Duty games, even though it seems most people didn't like it.

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Because we totally have random personal ordnance, random map drops, loadouts, and perks again. 

 

 

Idiot.

But we do have SPRINT, FLINCH(for no reason), a somewhat really good Thruster(that when combined with sprint is pretty OP), an useless Punch to the floor, "Stabilizers" that are good for god knows what and  Clamber (This one right here blows my mind) at the reach of your hand ALL the time.

 

Idiot.

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Just a quick suggestion for the mods but I think the Halo 5 beta feedback thread should be pinned. It's getting lost a lot of the time and I think it's important for it to be seen.

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http://share.gifyoutube.com/vZXbPl.webm

 

 

Dont know how to post it that u see it immediately but in this Gif u can see the Shotgun and the new generic Rocket Launcher in Action.

Hm, that Rocket didn't go straight and started to go down pretty quickly. Looks like it will take some skill to get long shots.

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Hm, that Rocket didn't go straight and started to go down pretty quick. Looks like it will take some skill to get long shots.

 

Also the reticle seems to move, am I imagining things?

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You just defined what it does, I'm asking how it negatively affects game play. 

I'm not sure exactly why other people aren't keen on the idea, but for me it comes down to the fact that you're actually punished with more randomness simply for having been descoped.

 

In order to make the problem more obvious, imagine the difference in spread was even bigger. You're standing a few feet from the wall, shooting it. Imagine that the spread when scoped was so tight that the bullets all landed within millimetres of each other, and when descoped the bullets land feet apart.

What this means for combat is that when you are descoped, you have to fight against more spread than your opponent does just to get yourself back into a scoped position. You and your enemy are both shooting with pretty much the exact same accuracy in terms of your skill, but your enemy is scoped in, which means that they'll be more likely to stay scoped in due to how much more likely it is that their shots will land. When you shoot them, even if you're being very accurate and staying very calm, you're not being rewarded as much for your accuracy.

 

That was an extreme example, but when we lower the difference in spread to what it is in Halo 5, we still have a situation where the same problem is present. The person who has been descoped now has to fight the game and the other player just to get back on top.

Shooting with accuracy and remaining calm while descoped against a scoped player is a skill in itself, due to the fact that the enemy is a smaller target on your screen.

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Also the reticle seems to move, am I imagining things?

Do you mean when his teammate runs past? He's just turning slightly at that point.

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I never said fuck this game. It is pretty fun. However, if you do think about some of the mechanics that are inplace in said game, you will realise that they don't serve much purpose but are being forced in anyways.

 

Why would you want to figure me out anyways? Haven't you got something better to do?

 

Well this is a community and I do like to be able to know where people stand on major topics like this. It's not like I care too much but you definitely stood out to me in your wishy-washiness...

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Is it crazy to say I would actually really enjoy World at War 2?? I had a lot of fun with the original. Probably more so than I did with MW2, Black Ops, MW3, BO2 and whatever else came in between them/ after them. The original MW is still my favourite though. I probably shouldn't be talking about COD here but oh well.

 

I'm looking forward to gaming the hell out of this beta, regardless of anything I'm going to have as much fun as I can and then I'll actually be able to talk about what I think needs to change.

 

Edit: Halo 4 is the exact reason you do a beta. Ordinance drops would have been destroyed in seconds. Although it was fun getting a damage boost against horrible people. (Which thanks to the lack of ranks happened a lot)

I've been thinking the same thing. I'd really enjoy a WaW2 so i can get back to play CoD. 

 

Haven't bought a CoD since blops 1.

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But we do have SPRINT, FLINCH(for no reason), a somewhat really good Thruster(that when combined with sprint is pretty OP), an useless Punch to the floor, "Stabilizers" that are good for god knows what and  Clamber (This one right here blows my mind) at the reach of your hand ALL the time.

 

Idiot.

343 are the only idiots here guys. <3

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I just don't understand how people are not seeing that it will be at least as bad as halo 4. Not only is the penalty for sprinting not sufficient to do anything but now you can thrust on top of it. It's going to be pure randomness on an even higher level than Halo 5. 

Eh. It is a huge improvement on Halo 4 because at least when you die, it is because of something that everyone has. Halo 4 sucked in this regard because you literally had no idea what your opponent was going to have. One of them could have Camo and Boltshot, the other could have Promethean Vision and a LightRifle. 

 

In Halo 5, everyone starts off with the same stuff. Even though that same stuff can be seen as gimmicky and unbalanced, it doesn't even compare to the mess of Halo 4. I'm optimistic about Halo 5, purely because of that. 

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One thing I never gave a shit about in H4 was loadouts. Everyone having a BR in 4v4 is hardly a problem, and most people were honourable enough to not actually use Boltshot. Contrary to what most people claim, camo and PV were completely useless. Only jetpack really made a difference. I always said that TP would have been a good replacement for sprint, but I never expected H5 to have both.

 

Sprint and low aiming skill were the main things that made H4 terrible to me. Anything else could either be disabled or really wasn't that much of a gameplay problem.

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One thing I never gave a shit about in H4 was loadouts. Everyone having a BR in 4v4 is hardly a problem, and most people were honourable enough to not actually use Boltshot. Contrary to what most people claim, camo and PV were completely useless. Only jetpack really made a difference. I always said that TP would have been a good replacement for sprint, but I never expected H5 to have both.

 

Sprint and low aiming skill were the main things that made H4 terrible to me. Anything else could either be disabled or really wasn't that much of a gameplay problem.

Big Team Battle is crying :(

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Big Team Battle is crying :(

Sprint hurt BTB just as much as PPs and PGs. BTB kids share our pain.

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Lmao they stole the rocket launcher design from Destiny to replace the iconic Halo rocket...

 

 

Which one? Since their is like 20 or so in destiny.

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Sprint hurt BTB just as much as PPs and PGs. BTB kids share our pain.

Plasma Pistol and Grenade combo now that's the definition of pain in BTB

 

I don't even know if BTB dudes even care about winning, the games are far more unpredictable than 4v4 matchmaking. It's about having fun in this game playlist.

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...not actually use Boltshot. 

 

I swear I feel like I'm the only one that can't use a Boltshot worth a shit... Maybe I just hate it that much.

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I wanted to write another post that encapsulates the overall Halo 5 experience rather than just the things I'd fix or change via a list that doesn't explain much of how the game works or feels. Some people might find it insightful and it can help prepare some on what to expect when the full beta hits on Dec. 29th. I'll talk about all the new features, abilities, what's different than before, and how the game feels overall. Bear with me as this is a very long read. It is, however, very insightful if you want to have a good idea on how the game works.

 

First off, there's not two ways to put it down, but Halo 5 IS different from a classic Halo game. Having never even tried it before MCC, I think of Halo CE as the best Halo game, and I know even on MCC, it's far from 100%. But I have a lot of respect for CE and understand how much goes into it, and in comparison, I think Halo 5 has an also large skill gap. The shooting skill gap is very present compared to some of the more recent games. Moving around feel fast and powerful, but the maps are well made not to make it overpowering. You can get caught off-guard and die in a split second as soon as you make a stupid push, just like you can be behind someone before they even realize it if you're clever with your map movement. On Truth, the Midship-inspired map, the maps don't have boxes to jump on top of and then onto the base, but if you're good at using the abilities, you can find ways from bottom mid to inside the bases easily. The maps have intricate access points when using a combination of clamber and thrusters, and they're all very well designed with the new abilities in mind.

 

The weapons are almost all powerful and difficult to use, excluding the Prophets' Bane (it does a good job at creating an interesting power point to control, but it's what you would expect out of a sword weapon). However, the automatics are a bit on the easier side due to their excessive kill times. The SMG is balanced and a very strong map pick-up, but the AR in its current form is too strong to spawn with. Their added Smart Scope can obliterate an unsuspecting opponent. On top of the new headshot damage multiplier on automatics, the added precision of Smart Scope - which feels like no bloom but with added recoil - can tear an opponent apart or leave them very easy to clean up if you had the jump on them outside of radar range. In a head on encounter, the AR will often beat the magnum in situations where the person with the magnum cannot get a perfect kill and misses shots. It is hard, as it should be, but the AR dishes out too much damage for how non-punishing it is to miss a shot. I will say this now though, the Magnum has lower aim assists, red reticle range and clip size. It is the most interesting weapon to look at for competitive. The main problem with it is that using it, while there is flinch (reticle jerk for taking damage even while unscoped in) and recoil, sometimes your reticle jerks up too much and makes it impossible to land shots while aiming downwards. This will need to be changed in future builds. 

 

Most other weapons feel good. The grenades seem overpowered at first, but after a lot of using, have a nice balance in strength to counter the new escape options that sprint or thrusters might allow. Now without indicators again, it's a lot more punishing not to be aware of when people drop nades. The new Smart Scope makes a few weapons feel clunkier than it should. The DMR's scope feels bothersome and in the way. Calling it Smart Scope or smart-link is a bit backwards because it obstructs the view so much. It should be done like the sniper instead. The BR has a quick and clear aiming view, so does the pistol (though the zoom is almost insignificant because there's not a lot of red reticle range and your reticle doesn't stick to people from a distance). A lot of time, with precision weapons, I was doing a lot better not zoomed in than zoomed in. I still think zooming animations should be done quicker not to make it as clunky and slow. There should also be a way to customize the zoomed in sensitivity.

 

Spartan Abilities. These were the harder to get used to.

 

Ground Pound is often in the way of gandhi hopping or crouch jumping (jump and click Left Thumbstick to use) and out of habit, I activate it a lot without meaning to. We've been told it'll change though, so that's good. This is one of the reasons why it'll be important to push for customizable buttons too. Overall, Ground Pound was very underwhelming. It looks powerful on clips where people do manage to land a kill, but after trying it a lot, it's hard to find practical situations for it. The range is limited to a low angle, and you need high elevation to use it on someone. You can't jump and Ground Pound on the same plane as you are, you need some sort of elevation difference. It's almost never worth risking the kill and giving up a power position. It's really there for style points rather than to have a balance effect on the game.

 

Spartan Charge is what happens when melee gets a distance buff from the upscaled map and movement options. It's often a terrible option to use because you're stuck in a long animation for something that does normal melee damage (also has a one hit kill from behind). I'd want a toggle for it in options because sometimes I'd like to sprint up to someone and just melee, but I have to stop before being able to do so, otherwise launch an accidental Spartan Charge that can get you killed. 

 

Sliding doesn't do much that a Spartan Charge can't do, and you need to hit "terminal velocity" (sprint for a full second) to be able to use it. It could be changed to be made a better option (E.G. greater sliding distance, weapon readiness while sliding). Right now it has no purpose and might as well not exist.

 

Thrusters are the most controversial aspect coming into Halo 5 at first. You can look at them as an escape tool, but their main purpose is to be a way to move on higher planes at higher speed. It's easy to chase down someone who escapes with thrusters as grenades can cut off a lot of options with their added power, and then you can flank back with your own dash. Overall, it increases the pace of movement at high elevation rather than making it careful jumping that slows down the time until you get back into action. It won't be a big pace change for those who were good at jumping, but it adds vertical options rather than making jumping 100% predictable. On the ground, if you're winning a battle against someone and they thrust away, you can chase down with sprint, but this is where it shines that sprint needs to be improved as an aggressive ability and have faster weapon readiness out of it, and it should be possible to shoot while using thrusters.

 

Auto-stabilize is a new mechanic that lets people hover in place while aiming in mid-air. It's not a jetpack, it just delays your fall until you scope out or get shot out of it. I turn it off as it gets in my way of dropping from elevation and aiming at someone, but I know some people like using it. It's a good tool if people aren't shooting back at you and you have a weird angle from across the map. Most people will notice it without meaning as it is by default on, but like I said, it can be turned off in options. People can choose to use it for help while jump shooting, but the truth is, it's more punishing to be shot out of auto-stabilize than not to have it on. It's hard to recover and place your reticle on someone while falling if you aren't expecting it.

 

Spartan chatter, the new feature where teammates will talk in-game and call out instead of the player isn't a bad addition at all, but some of the commentary is a bit excessive at times. It's nice to get relevant callouts when teammates aren't talking, but it's silly to be complimented on an assist by an AI. It can be refined into a good feature, just need to filter out the less interesting communication. The fact that maps use decent call tags (above the radar) and that the spartan chatter uses them for callouts to make sense is amazing when people aren't talking. However, there should also be an option to toggle it off not to undermine the skill and knowledge factor that team communication is at high level.

 

I don't wanna talk much about sprint, as it is the most controversial addition to Halo at this point, and all that needs to be said about it has been said thousands of times. It is however in the game, and needs not to be ignored. So I'll break down how different it is now. As some know, sprint has been nerfed to some extent, however, it remains the best way to move around the map. If you're quick to notice things, you will realize that the Halo 5 HUD now has 3 different bars at the top of the screen. One bar is your shields like normal. Second one is your health / lower shields; you take damage on this when your main shields are depleted, and you're vulnerable to headshots. Last one is a small white one that appears when your main shields are down, and it's the shield recharge delay. Once the white bar runs out, your shield recharge is triggered. In order to weaken sprint as an escape tool, 343 made it so sprinting while the white bar is up will restart it to full until you stop sprinting. What this means is that as long as you sprint until your shields are down, your shields will not start recharging. You need to come to a full stop to allow shields to recharge. This helps A LOT making sprint a weaker escape tool. 

 

Sprint also now has a "terminal velocity" which you need to reach to utilize sprint-base abilities like Spartan Charge or sliding. It doesn't make a change in speed, but you have a visual cue on your HUD to indicate when it happens. As I've said, it takes a second of sprinting to reach, and we've been told if you are shot while sprinting BEFORE reaching terminal velocity, you can be knocked out of sprint. Knowing this, I think sprint could be further weakened and make it so termincal velocity takes more time to reach (E.G. 2-3 seconds) so you can't run away at all as long as you're getting shot. 

 

I don't think it will be removed at this point, nor do I think it's worth making hundreds of "remove sprint" posts because I know everything in the game has been balanced with it in mind, and the balance IS on point, we just need to do more fine-tuning. If the game was redone without sprint in mind, I'm almost sure it wouldn't be balanced for launch. We would need another beta during the summer to make it happen, and base movement to be bumped up a significant amount without causing ice skating.

 

Putting in-game mechanics aside, the ranking system is definitely something worthy of Joshua Menke. The new CSR divisions will add an interesting and almost tangible progression through skill. You can visualize how wins contribute to your ranks on a progress bar, and then progress through the different tiers within a division (E.G. Gold I, Gold II, Gold III, Onyx I, etc.) until reaching the semi-pro status, where you get an actual number to reflect your skill rating (based on wins and how good opponents were upon winning). Of all semi-pros, the top 200 of the rankings are placed under "pro" division. With a nice Matchmaking that focuses on skill a lot, this will lead to great matches and a more specific ranking rather than "50" that has a lot of variation to it.

 

The game also has a separate progression system in which you advance through with XP. It's SR-based like Halo 4, so you get high digits for participation anyway, winning has a negligible effect on progression. I think it should be more along the lines of Halo 3, where you win and progress, but get almost nothing if you lose. Winning should be at least twice as fast as losing games towards XP progression. Individual performance should also provide a big boost so it's not as frustrating for people who lose despite carrying their team.

 

I know this is a long read, but to make a long story short, Halo 5 is fast-paced upscaled Arena shooter with increased vertical movement. You need to use thrusters and clamber to move efficiently around the map, sprint jumping also is an important factor, so I can't see the game have good movement options without sprint. Thrusters would have to be buffed because of how maps are. We can however weaken sprint to the point where it's an unusable escape tool, and a better offensive option. Weapon readiness out of sprint needs to be FAST and responsive. You need to be able to zoom again after YY'ing. Everything else is pretty much as should be. Static weapon drops, emphasis on positioning and decent spawn points. It remains true to the Arena shooter aspect which Halo 4 threw out of the window, but with added movement options and maps that make the most of all the abilities without making them seem overpowered. I think it has a very solid skill gap and a bunch of stuff we haven't seen used yet at top level. If you're expecting movement to be like classic Halo, you will be surprised. But get used to them, try difficult jumps and sometimes it'll work in an interesting way.

 

I think if people come together and give feedback on individual abilities, it can be balanced into a very fast, fluid and balanced shooter. Just boot it up with an open mind and think of it as a game that's not what you'd come to expect out of Halo. Spend 5-10 hours testing out the mechanics and getting used to them. It is very different compared to the classic games, but it definitely has a big skill gap and necessary balance. It can further fine-tuned as the community provides feedback and give support to ideas. 

 

Once again, it's very important to approach it with an open mind. It cannot be denied that Halo 5 has elements familiar to modern shooters (I've been on CoD AW for the first time ever for the past few days, and I see similarities in EXO suit movements and thrusters, just no double jump or dash spam in H5). Dashing (Thrusters) are capped at one use per few seconds (1 per 4-6 seconds, I forgot). However, the most important part, the Arena aspect, is kept true. It is the same end goal and metagame but with different mechanics and a large expansion to the core movement. Overall, I was pleased with the game and see the immense potential it has, and that's coming from someone who likes CE and post-patch Reach no bloom no sprint the best. Reach was slow, and this is a lot faster, with better maps and a much harder shooting skill gap. I won't do a straightforward comparison to classic Halo (CE/2/3) since it is a very different kind of game, but I know I'm excited to have more maps and an improved version of the game considering how polished and balanced it is at this stage. If the beta didn't impress me, I was ready to return my Xbox One, but Halo 5 was able to tip the balance as a worthwhile competitive shooter.

 

Give it a shot and provide valid feedback on the 29th. I'm sorry for how long this post was and I also apologize for the various mistakes you might find, but this is hard to proof read as I keep rewriting points in a way that makes more sense for people. I've been working on this for a while now so I'll just end this here. I hope this helps people have an idea what to expect out of Halo 5. 

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I swear I feel like I'm the only one that can't use a Boltshot worth a shit... Maybe I just hate it that much.

Well before the update is was op as fuck.

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I swear I feel like I'm the only one that can't use a Boltshot worth a shit... Maybe I just hate it that much.

This happens to me all the time. I try out some weapon every player is using, find out its power-to-skill ratio is way out of wack (and therefore not rewarding), move on to a high skill, high reward weapon, come back when that becomes too frustrating, and realize I am physically not capable of stooping to that level anymore.

 

I hate it when a game forces me to make that decision, because it never really does; you can either win or be honorable, never both. Why, game, why?

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