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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Nobody is accusing 343 of storing DLC in a locker to be drip-released over time. They're accusing 343 of prioritizing development resources in favor of content that gets them microtransactions.

 

And the "new console" excuse is weak. Bungie created Forge from scratch in the same amount of time between launch and Halo 3's release.

Not to mention the X1 is just a weak PC, they should have no problem developing for it. We also know the engine is not "new". 

 

Also, the Warzone maps all having the same basses and structures isn't doing them in favors in terms of excuses. 

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Nobody is accusing 343 of storing DLC in a locker to be drip-released over time. They're accusing 343 of prioritizing development resources in favor of content that gets them microtransactions.

 

And the "new console" excuse is weak. Bungie created Forge from scratch in the same amount of time between the 360's launch and Halo 3's release.

and sadly Warzone is popular, so it will only become more of the focus in Halo 6.

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and sadly Warzone is popular, so it will only become more of the focus in Halo 6.

this is why I play eldewrito...
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Don't be an apologist. The lack of launch content was unacceptable. There are no acceptable excuses.

 

 

There are no acceptable excuses...

 

Forge – Best Forge to date, colossal redesign, dozens to hundreds of improvements, delivered less than two months later

Gametypes – Sacrificed what, 2-3 gametypes (that could barely hit 4-digit population numbers) to focus on refining CTF/Strongholds, remarkably designed competitive gametypes that can arguably rival classics.

 

You are rallying behind negativity without looking at both perspectives.

 

As an example, I just said that I am fine with the quantity of objective gametypes at launch. What I am not okay with is 343 blindsiding the Infection community entirely. At the very latest, Infection should have arrived alongside the Forge update. I'd go as far to say it should have been prioritized over Grifball and Assault.

 

Just shouting "Unacceptable! Absolutely unacceptable!" like a rampant Guilty Spark just makes you look biased. Without understanding what goes  down behind the scenes in a game development pipeline, NONE of us can comment on what should, could or could not have been at launch.

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Not to mention the X1 is just a weak PC, they should have no problem developing for it. We also know the engine is not "new". .

This isn't true. Like, at all.
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I don't know why the CE Pistol is a REQ 6 in Warzone...

 

I could pull out a Lifghtrifle that is REQ 4 that is easier / can shoot way farther.

Or for REQ 6 I could call in a...

A Banshee, Sniper, Tank etc.

Hell its a slap in the face since the Whispered Truth is a REQ 5 that is a two shot, unlimited speed boost and easier to use.

 

CE Pistol should be REQ 2 or a loadout weapon

I'd say it would make a great lvl 4-5 loadout, but to me it seems like lots of people still see the original HCE pistol as a OP powerweapon and a balancing mistake, I guess 343 wants to support the legend of the HCE pistol beeing an overpowered powerweapon by making it a mythic REQ 6

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Not to mention the X1 is just a weak PC, they should have no problem developing for it. We also know the engine is not "new". 

 

Also, the Warzone maps all having the same basses and structures isn't doing them in favors in terms of excuses. 

 

Warzone maps are also the largest maps in Halo history (except maybe some Halo PC ones, but those are meh anyway), and require tons of more balancing.

 

The Garage/Armory/Bases probably were crafted and refined for many many hours to perfect their gameplay, considering they are the main combat areas on most of the maps. They are beautifully designed in terms of gameplay, in my opinion. Very fun and balanced playspaces. Could they repaint/texture them differently? Definitely, but using that as an example of laziness is not something I'd go as far as doing.

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Development time & developing for a new console is just one (albeit a major factor) reason for your supposed 'cut content'

 

@ I agree wholeheartedly that Breakout was a terrible misallocation of development resources, and is one my larger gripes with how certain members of 343 approached developing Arena.

 

However, there are still tons of additional factors other than those two that explain why there was a "limited" amount of content at launch. It is NOT 343 "holding back content", that I can say for sure.

 

You have to change your perspective away from a player who has played 5+ Halo games with strongly varying quantities of content to that of 343's; if you can grasp what their pipeline and development process is like (which none of us can truly do without being in the studio), then you can start to actually complain about the things that really should be in the game by now.

I hate this idea that I should have to sympathize with developers - not because I'm entitled, but because I hold up my end of the bargain while they don't.

 

Development is hard. New hardware is hard, absolutely. I don't even blame the workers; they probably sweat their ass off every day to support this game.

 

Halo 3 was also on next gen. Halo 3 also delivered all the features we expected, all the modes we expected, all the weapons, and then some - forge and theater. All on new hardware. We can debate the merits of the game, but the fact is that game did everything with the same circumstances as Halo 5 on new hardware and delivered - Halo 5 didn't.

 

I pay 60 bucks for a full game. I understand the removal of MINOR features in return for awesome new shit (Halo 5's forge is awesome new shit and 100% deserved to be delayed considering how good it is and continues to be) but not staples of Halo. Thats when we hit the zero tolerance zone.

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I hate this idea that I should have to sympathize with developers - not because I'm entitled, but because I hold up my end of the bargain while they don't.

 

Development is hard. New hardware is hard, absolutely. I don't even blame the workers; they probably sweat their ass off every day to support this game.

 

Halo 3 was also on next gen. Halo 3 also delivered all the features we expected, all the modes we expected, all the weapons, and then some - forge and theater. All on new hardware. We can debate the merits of the game, but the fact is that game did everything with the same circumstances as Halo 5 on new hardware and delivered - Halo 5 didn't.

 

I pay 60 bucks for a full game. I understand the removal of MINOR features in return for awesome new shit (Halo 5's forge is awesome new shit and 100% deserved to be delayed considering how good it is and continues to be) but not staples of Halo. Thats when we hit the zero tolerance zone.

Halo 3 was also sub hd on a "next gen" hd console. Not to mention it wasn't even a locked 30fps at a time where games like CoD4 were just around the corner at 60fps.

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Halo 3 was also sub hd on a "next gen" had console. Not to mention it wasn't even a locked 30fps at a time where games like CoD4 were just around the corner at 60fps.

so halo 3 prioritized the experience over visuals. Not seeing a problem.
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We can debate the merits of the game, but the fact is that game did everything with the same circumstances as Halo 5 on new hardware and delivered - Halo 5 didn't.

 

Shit happens behind the scenes that we don't know. You can't just simply say that.

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Halo 3 was also sub hd on a "next gen" had console. Not to mention it wasn't even a locked 30fps at a time where games like CoD4 were just around the corner at 60fps.

And? It was at a time when games were acceptable at 30 FPS. The HD part is true, but I thought we all agreed gameplay and framerate > pixels on the screen.

 

Agree that it should have been higher res, but thats not even comparable to Halo 5's missing content. Like, at all.

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Halo 3 was also on next gen. Halo 3 also delivered all the features we expected, all the modes we expected, all the weapons, and then some - forge and theater. All on new hardware. We can debate the merits of the game, but the fact is that game did everything with the same circumstances as Halo 5 on new hardware and delivered - Halo 5 didn't.

 

But Halo 3 was far from stellar from anything outside of the feature set.

 

Beautiful gems like Isolation, Snowbound, a terrible utility weapon, bad sandbox, terrible online connection, etc. I'd actually agree that H3 is one of the most refined games I've ever played in terms of features, so its hard to argue against it, but then there are the things that H5 does that H3 doesn't.

 

60FPS, Stellar online connection (dedicated servers), better ranking system by miles, better playlist management, Warzone is more innovative for Halo than anything Halo 3 attempted (outside of Forge, which was just user-innovation), better competitive custom game options, better maps, better weapon layouts/sandbox, Spectator Mode (albeit weak, is still present), etc.

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Shit happens behind the scenes that we don't know. You can't just simply say that.

Very true. I am basing this off the circumstances that are visible to me, the played, who pays 343 60 bucks for a full game.

 

I don't have any delusions that game dev is easy, but we know 343 didn't even plan to have some of this content at launch, and BTB was a complete last minute addition despite 343's insistence that it was its own experience and had "custom made maps for it." (HA)

 

Management at 343 needs to change. The developers aren't lazy; management is.

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There are no acceptable excuses...

 

Forge – Best Forge to date, colossal redesign, dozens to hundreds of improvements, delivered less than two months later

Gametypes – Sacrificed what, 2-3 gametypes (that could barely hit 4-digit population numbers) to focus on refining CTF/Strongholds, remarkably designed competitive gametypes that can arguably rival classics.

 

You are rallying behind negativity without looking at both perspectives.

 

As an example, I just said that I am fine with the quantity of objective gametypes at launch. What I am not okay with is 343 blindsiding the Infection community entirely. At the very latest, Infection should have arrived alongside the Forge update. I'd go as far to say it should have been prioritized over Grifball and Assault.

 

Just shouting "Unacceptable! Absolutely unacceptable!" like a rampant Guilty Spark just makes you look biased. Without understanding what goes down behind the scenes in a game development pipeline, NONE of us can comment on what should, could or could not have been at launch.

I don't care what goes on behind the scenes. I spent 90 of my worthless Canadian dollars on this game based on the implied promise of robust content and replayability that is synonymous with the Halo brand. I also bought it based on the actual promise of free maps. Neither of these promises were fulfilled to a level that I deem acceptable.

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And? It was at a time when games were acceptable at 30 FPS. The HD part is true, but I thought we all agreed gameplay and framerate > pixels on the screen.

 

Agree that it should have been higher res, but thats not even comparable to Halo 5's missing content. Like, at all.

30fps was acceptable but it had a hard time staying at a consistent 30. I agree with you though, the missing content was rough, even if we got one of the only locked 60fps on the market right now,

 

so halo 3 prioritized the experience over visuals. Not seeing a problem.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I agree with the missing content I just don't know why people seem to forget halo 3 was a technical mess.

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People who cared about this in 2007:

 

3d_empty_room_01_hd_picture_167786.jpg

This isn't true. That's like saying nobody cares about the aiming issues because we're the only ones complaining about it. There was plenty of distaste towards the frame rate, visuals, and resolution, just not where YOU looked.
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I don't care what goes on behind the scenes. I spent 90 of my worthless Canadian dollars on this game based on the implied promise of robust content and replayability that is synonymous with the Halo brand. I also bought it based on the actual promise of free maps. Neither of these promises were fulfilled to a level that I deem acceptable.

 

 

Okay so now we're shifting the argument to anecdotal opinions, so I'm out.

 

Clarify whether you believe it is universally unacceptable or whether it is what you deem as unacceptable.

 

I'm trying to explain why there are certain things that should NOT be complained about, but there are things that deem unacceptable. The only difference is that I don't state those thoughts as if they are law.

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I'd take 30fps Halo 5 if it meant split screen was included and all staple features at launch.

Nooooo, the 60fps is just too good.

 

It's sad and destructive but giving up on some fans and features for 60fps was a necessary evil in my eyes for the future of the franchise. It'll be back, I know it.

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This isn't true. That's like saying nobody cares about the aiming issues because we're the only ones complaining about it. There was plenty of distaste towards the frame rate, visuals, and resolution, just not where YOU looked.

 

Halo 3 is regarded as the epitome of Halo's art design, what are you talking about? And the resolution wasn't even DISCOVERED until well into Halo 3's life.

 

The frame rate issues only came up when people started going crazy in Forge.

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I'd take 30fps Halo 5 if it meant split screen was included and all staple features at launch.

I'm good with never having that lol

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