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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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I second this.

 

Doesn't really matter to me if there's 20k or 200k. I'm still enjoying the game and still having 30 second match queue times.

 

Not everything has to be a popularity contest.

Yeah but reasons people experience fast 30 second match queue times (outside of high csr/mmr social and high champions) are:

 

-There are like 6 total playlists, 5 ranked ones

 

-There is no restriction of party sizes

 

So it compromises the integrity of the game and ranks themselves and it makes it unenjoyable. Sure you can solo queue but you aren't going to have consistent success or any at all at certain levels of competition. 

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Playing Arena solo is hell, I can't enjoy anything outside of Warzone and even that gets stale at times

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I second this.

 

Doesn't really matter to me if there's 20k or 200k. I'm still enjoying the game and still having 30 second match queue times.

 

Not everything has to be a popularity contest.

Basically me. Shortsighted or not, if it leads to me enjoying the game without worry, or negativity then how can I "not" act/think that way?

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Overgrowth Strongholds is bearable but it's still bad...it's just better than anything on Riptide or slayer/FFA on either map. 

 

In what universe is Riptide a very good map? It easily maps a top 5-10 worst halo maps of all time list...Citadel shits on Riptide, embarrassingly Orbital and Assembly are playable to good in comparison. 

 

Overgrowth, Riptide and Pegasus have no business being in ranked matchmaking, if anything Riptide FFA is the only passable combination but it's still bad. Overgrowth Strongholds is playable without the shotgun but it still is an utter joke to be in the HCS/MLG playlist when it's never going to be in competition. Pegasus was a forge filler map because 343 probably withheld Overgrowth and Riptide pre-launch to give as free dlc and it's baffling that it is still in rotation.

 

 

In my opinion, from purely a map design perspective (not accounting sandbox/gameplay), the only bad maps in H5 are the following. Everything else is better than Narrows.

  • Overgrowth (Slayer)
  • Orion
  • Regret

Overgrowth Strongholds is hardly a bad gametype at all. It deserves to be in the playlist for at least a while, since it is new and deserves spotlight, and who knows, it could be added to the HCS Rotation when the Pro League swings around. Same with Riptide.

 

I was responding to your post one line at a time but then you said Orbital plays better than Riptide so I don't really know how to move forward from this point...

 

and no, 343 isn't holding back content, as much as you'd like to believe it. Pegasus isn't just 'filler', it wouldn't have been changed so drastically from the Beta variant if it was. Clearly some major balancing changes took place.

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The fact that there are "strats" to Halo maps to dictate the best way to play them is disgusting. Maps should be a sandbox where players choose how to move about. Instead we get the most set up based maps in Halo history. Every team looks the same.

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I just wanted to drop in here and say how much I started to suck at this game out of nowhere. Can't aim for shit the last 2-3 days and I can't find a setting that feels right anymore. I fucking suck. That is all.

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I just wanted to drop in here and say how much I started to suck at this game out of nowhere. Can't aim for shit the last 2-3 days and I can't find a setting that feels right anymore. I fucking suck. That is all.

this is normal.

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The fact that there are "strats" to Halo maps to dictate the best way to play them is disgusting. Maps should be a sandbox where players choose how to move about. Instead we get the most set up based maps in Halo history. Every team looks the same.

There have always been strats. Don't mistake my barebones "Halo 5 for dummies" as the extent of this game's depth.

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and no, 343 isn't holding back content, as much as you'd like to believe it.

I never really understood this tinfoil theory. It doesn't make any sense at all, nor does it have any concrete basis.

 

Pacing an update release is very different from cutting things to release it later.

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The fact that there are "strats" to Halo maps to dictate the best way to play them is disgusting. Maps should be a sandbox where players choose how to move about. Instead we get the most set up based maps in Halo history. Every team looks the same.

Yea bunnies post was a super cut down part of h5 strategy. There's a lot of things you have to do outside of really general stuff we were discussing. Allegiance for example have been showing some unorthodox strategies and its working a lot.

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I never really understood this tinfoil theory. It doesn't make any sense at all, nor does it have any concrete basis.

 

Pacing an update release is very different from cutting things to release it later.

It's a terrible model either way.

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At the end of the day, let's all remember what we're discussing about

Says the guy who was a part of derailing the mcc thread earlier.

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In my opinion, from purely a map design perspective (not accounting sandbox/gameplay), the only bad maps in H5 are the following. Everything else is better than Narrows.

  • Overgrowth (Slayer)
  • Orion
  • Regret

Overgrowth Strongholds is hardly a bad gametype at all. It deserves to be in the playlist for at least a while, since it is new and deserves spotlight, and who knows, it could be added to the HCS Rotation when the Pro League swings around. Same with Riptide.

 

I was responding to your post one line at a time but then you said Orbital plays better than Riptide so I don't really know how to move forward from this point...

 

and no, 343 isn't holding back content, as much as you'd like to believe it. Pegasus isn't just 'filler', it wouldn't have been changed so drastically from the Beta variant if it was. Clearly some major balancing changes took place.

Well I guess we are at an impasse because saying every Halo 5 map besides Orion/Regret/Overgrowth only slayer, so overgrowth strongholds, are better than Narrows is bonkers to me. I understand there is personal preference and opinion but Riptide/Overgrowth are ass and so is Pegasus which apparently is better than Narrows according to your list. 

 

I don't even like Narrows that much but it shits on every map in Halo 5 besides arguably Coliseum and Truth, which is a 3rd edition remake with adjustments for Halo 5's gameplay. 

 

Orbital is bad, yes I'll give you that but in my opinion it's slightly better than Riptide and Overgrowth and was never put into the MLG playlist. 

 

I can't see any scenario where Riptide or Overgrowth get put into rotation for Pro League or any tournaments, they are terrible and I guarantee virtually every pro will agree with me.

 

I'm not a tinfoil hat conspiracy guy or anything, but I heard there was a video in which some dude showed the concept art/maps of Overgrowth and Riptide before Halo 5 even came out.

 

@@TeeJaY I'm not sure how that is a terrible model. I'm not saying it's true, but if they had the maps designed pre-launch they simply withheld them and put in Orion and Pegasus which were forged partially or mainly by non-343 employees as filler maps until they released them to fill a quota of free dlc. Again I'm not sure this is true, but I definitely think it's possible considering there is allegedly concept art for them dating awhile back. Basically the model is they did less to no work and released free dlc to appease the community...it's a good model for them hypothetically. 

 

But Infinity...you think Pegasus is better than Regret let alone Narrows? Come on man  :lxthul:

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I never really understood this tinfoil theory. It doesn't make any sense at all, nor does it have any concrete basis.

 

Pacing an update release is very different from cutting things to release it later.

People seem to think that because a map (Noctus) was shown before launch, that means it was cut to be later released. 

 

The one that gets me is people thinking they held back gametypes, despite it being the biggest complaint right now. If they were holding them back and those complaints rolled in, they'd have arrived in the next monthly update.

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Can someone try to explain to me what they believe is bad about Riptide?

If I wanted to read stuff like "map XY is objectively bad no reason but I say so" I would try to have this conversation elsewhere...

IMO Riptide has a much smaller focus on automatics then Fathom or Eden-Empire and has some intersting lines of sight! It's not perfect but miles ahead of Eden/Empire, Pegasus, overgrowth and Fathom

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Can someone try to explain to me what they believe is bad about Riptide?

If I wanted to read stuff like "map XY is objectively bad no reason but I say so" I would try to have this conversation elsewhere...

IMO Riptide has a much smaller focus on automatics then Fathom or Eden-Empire and has some intersting lines of sight! It's not perfect but miles ahead of Eden/Empire, Pegasus, overgrowth and Fathom

I don't agree that it's better than any of those except Overgrowth. It actually suffers from similar issues to Overgrowth, in that it is incredibly segmented and often takes entirely too long to put yourself in a position to help teammates. It would be improved immensely if they knocked some walls down and added a path from bottom nest to dunes, but it's too late now.

 

Best case scenario, forgers block off some of the closed-off areas and make a decent 2v2 map.

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People seem to think that because a map (Noctus) was shown before launch, that means it was cut to be later released.

 

The one that gets me is people thinking they held back gametypes, despite it being the biggest complaint right now. If they were holding them back and those complaints rolled in, they'd have arrived in the next monthly update.

3-4 year development time and they just barely managed to get Halo 5 out in the knick of time, while content comes out in perfect intervals at the end of the month each month? Doesn't make much sense to me.

 

Whether they held back finished content or didn't finish it at release on purpose, it's all the same thing. This whole free DLC thing gets introduced and Halo 5 just happens to launch with 2 objective gametypes?

 

I also really can't believe that you reasoned that 343 would fix things as soon as complaints come in.

 

and no, 343 isn't holding back content, as much as you'd like to believe it.

Holding out content is the same exact thing as deliberately not finishing content at launch and saving it for later. Halo 5 launched with 2 objective gametypes and still has 2 objective gametypes 4 months after release. Think if someone said that 7 years ago. Both scenarios, we could have the content now, but we have to wait. I really don't see a difference once you get out of this technical crap that they aren't the same thing.

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Can't wait for the Feb update. Grifball will bring a lot of my mates back and will be hella fun with the new abilities.

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In my opinion, from purely a map design perspective (not accounting sandbox/gameplay), the only bad maps in H5 are the following. Everything else is better than Narrows.

  • Overgrowth (Slayer)
  • Orion
  • Regret

Empire or Rig over Narrows. You have some "interessting" opinions.

 

People seem to think that because a map (Noctus) was shown before launch, that means it was cut to be later released. 

 

The one that gets me is people thinking they held back gametypes, despite it being the biggest complaint right now. If they were holding them back and those complaints rolled in, they'd have arrived in the next monthly update.

We are left with:

 

A. They hold important content back to release it later and try to keep people interested in Halo 5.

 

B. They were just to lazy or didnt think it is important to make this content and are now bringing it back step by step when its too late already for a lot of people.

 

Which one is better? I personally think both variants are complete shite.

 

I mean, is it really that ridiculous that people think they are holding content back when we get things such as Assault, a gravity hammer or classic emblems "shortly" after release? Do you really think they are actually making all of this content after release? What is so unbelieveable about holding content back to release it later? Its not like other games/companies do that aswell.

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I don't agree that it's better than any of those except Overgrowth. It actually suffers from similar issues to Overgrowth, in that it is incredibly segmented and often takes entirely too long to put yourself in a position to help teammates. It would be improved immensely if they knocked some walls down and added a path from bottom nest to dunes, but it's too late now.

 

Best case scenario, forgers block off some of the closed-off areas and make a decent 2v2 map.

thank you for that reply, It explains why I like it while some of you don't.

I don't like that Halo 5 is basically all about team shooting and most maps cater to this way of playing Halo, I guess I like Riptide because makes 1v1 situations a little bit more common without beeing an auto-fest 24/7.

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People seem to think that because a map (Noctus) was shown before launch, that means it was cut to be later released. 

 

The one that gets me is people thinking they held back gametypes, despite it being the biggest complaint right now. If they were holding them back and those complaints rolled in, they'd have arrived in the next monthly update.

While I do agree with you are saying, if they didn't have the game types at all that makes 343 look even worse imo. It shows how out of touch they are with the community if they thought they could ship the game without franchise staples that have been in the game for over 10 years. I think that people assumed that gametypes and maps were held back because they assumed that a company couldn't be that out of touch with its fanbase. With our knowledge of the "sustain plan" it seems perfectly reasonable to me to think that 343 was holding back gametypes specifically. It seems like that idea is completely wrong now, but especially when the game first released, the though of, "surely they weren't dumb enough to leave out assault infection, and grifball etc, they must have kept it for the sustain plan..." seems perfectly reasonable to me

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I'm sitting here listening to people consider static spawns for slayer like

 

Are-you-high.gif

Why are static spawns normal/perfect for objective but bad for slayer (on symmetrical maps) in Halo 5? I feel like on coliseum slayer for example you really do get punished for playing agressive while it is very beneficial in CTF. I dont want 50% of my team staying in the back of the map just to not fuck up the spawns. (I think it is obvious that it is a nightmare if you have to play it with randoms)

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Empire or Rig over Narrows. You have some "interessting" opinions.

 

We are left with:

 

A. They hold important content back to release it later and try to keep people interested in Halo 5.

 

B. They were just to lazy or didnt think it is important to make this content and are now bringing it back step by step when its too late already for a lot of people.

 

Which one is better? I personally think both variants are complete shite.

 

I mean, is it really that ridiculous that people think they are holding content back when we get things such as Assault, a gravity hammer or classic emblems "shortly" after release? Do you really think they are actually making all of this content after release? What is so unbelieveable about holding content back to release it later? Its not like other games/companies do that aswell.

I was simply saying that just because a map was shown pre-release, doesn't mean it was ready to go for day one - which was the case for Noctus. I think Holmes even mentioned this once the map was revealed for the monthly updates but then again, most people won't take his word any more ever since the whole Breakout thing - fair play.

 

We all poke fun at the sustain plan but the fact is, they've probably had it all planned out for a long time. All these maps are releasing post-launch were never intended to be shipped with the game on day one, they were always intended to be released after the fact.

 

This is why we're seeing remixes before we see any brand new maps - because creating a brand new map from scratch takes time while remixes re-use a lot of assets and areas. 

 

People can argue that Halo 5's day one content was lacking - there's literally no denying that. I don't know what the reason for that is but I'm certain it wasn't because they finished the game and stripped it, piece by piece until they had enough content for add back in later.

 

To touch on Assault, the Hammer and classic emblems though - the Ball mode has been in the works since November or December, someone from 343 mentioned that during last month's live stream. 2-3 months to create a new game mode from scratch doesn't sound unreasonable at all. The Hammer has been in the works probably as long as the Ball mode. There's no doubt that mode started as Grifball/Assault and evolved into whatever it is now. Once again, 2-3 months to nail the physics and how it should behave (more like H3, Reach, H4?), etc. 

 

I'm sure if you get in contact with Nokyard who spent some extra time down at 343 after the Forge visit, he'll let you know about what sort of testing went into the hammer, what feedback he offered and all that stuff. 

 

As for classic emblems, that is probably the only thing I could see the 'holding back' but then again, an artist could literally look at the classic emblem from H2, H3, Reach and H4, spend a few hours with it and slap it into Halo 5's emblem stuff. 

 

Obviously I have no proof, this is just what I'm choosing to believe. There's always going to people who believe that the sustain plan consists of cut content and there's no way I can prove otherwise.

 

While I do agree with you are saying, if they didn't have the game types at all that makes 343 look even worse imo. It shows how out of touch they are with the community if they thought they could ship the game without franchise staples that have been in the game for over 10 years. I think that people assumed that gametypes and maps were held back because they assumed that a company couldn't be that out of touch with its fanbase. With our knowledge of the "sustain plan" it seems perfectly reasonable to me to think that 343 was holding back gametypes specifically. It seems like that idea is completely wrong now, but especially when the game first released, the though of, "surely they weren't dumb enough to leave out assault infection, and grifball etc, they must have kept it for the sustain plan..." seems perfectly reasonable to me

I don't disagree with you at all. The fact that Infection, Grifball, etc were left out at launch is just awful. Literally entire communities of players have no reason to pick up Halo 5 because of this. 

 

I just don't agree with people who think they're holding back gametypes in the hopes that more people will suddenly come back when they finally release. A few people will, sure but first impressions are everything. Those people who returned the game or traded it in aren't going to go through the effort of re-purchasing the game now that Grifball is here. 

 

If they were truly sitting on these gametypes and they were ready to go, there would have been a blog on Waypoint saying they were coming and what is coming but instead we were hit with the usual "soon" which means they had nothing and didn't want to make promises in case something didn't end up happening (see every single MCC patch release date).

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The fact that we got a game with a severe lack of content at launch is what makes people suspicious about them holding back content. Not to mention we all know keeping a population was one of their most important aspects of this game after Halo 4 so that means it's not a very far stretch to say that they planned this all along. 

 

I can see the meetings that took place, "funnel everyone into Warzone, that'll satisfy all their BTB needs and our cash flow problem. Also, make sure to pick a few maps our team is working on and slate those for later release dates as part of our sustain plan and while you're at it, we need some gametypes as part of our 'free dlc' too." Not a tin foil hat theory, once again, these are common business practices.

 

Either something like this went down, or they are lazy/incompetent. 

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