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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Anyway buff pistol (maybe just make it like DMR in zoom/damage and take out the DMR!), slightly nerf autos, put in a social playlist, bring back classic gametypes, and we're money

 

i'm out

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I guess my main point is this: You can certainly argue halo has lost its roots, or sucks now, or whatever, but even if it had maintained its roots, the market is vastly different now than 2004 so comparing population or Xbox Live top 10 placement from now to back in the early H3 days is probably not a great use of mental and emotional energy.

2004 sure but you've yet to pursuade me that it is vastly different from what we had in 07-09.

 

07-09 is the period in which console gamimg started to become incredibly sequel driven. Were still in that phase. Were playing the same franchises now that we were then.

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So how does this factor in to h5 being in 10th place? If these games affect every game in the top 10 equally how are they part of the reason h5 is in 10th?

This is a good point, I phrased this wrong. I don't think every game outside the top ten is affected equally, in fact, the "siphon" is probably harder on shooters.  What I should have said is that the non-top ten are almost certainly taking up more players in general than they did in 2004. However that distribution falls, I don't think you can expect to see H2/H3's persistent dominance ever again, from any title, over multiple years.

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Hahaha! Moa is well liked at 343 so that doesn't surprise me haha

When you give Halo 5's campaign 8/10, what do you expect .... :kappa:
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2004 sure but you've yet to pursuade me that it is vastly different from what we had in 07-09.

 

07-09 is the period in which console gamimg started to become incredibly sequel driven. Were still in that phase. Were playing the same franchises now that we were then.

 

Yes, but different entries in those franchises.  There are multiple CoDs and Battlefields that come out at a faster rate and though the mass audience jumps to the newest, some players remain playing the old one.  There are just many, many more choices.  A bigger audience, sure, but also a lot more choices.

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That's not what it's like saying.  Maybe Halo lost its roots! But there was also WAY less competent competition back then.

 

Saturation of a market rarely hurts the pre-existing, well-established contenders within it.  All it really ever does is strengthen the barrier of entry and put reinforcements on the walls which separate the new or newer products from the longstanding kings.  Halo was a longstanding king.  I'm not a Donald Trump or Bill Gates, but business isn't hard to understand unless it's made to be either.  

 

I sincerely am trying to see your points, but all I really hear you saying is Halo shouldn't be expected to succeed as it did with H2 and H3, because there's sooo many new players trying to succeed nowadays.  Halo's not an athlete who's body is going to break down...It's a product, and its success only started to stumble after fundamental and foundational elements of the game were rather drastically changed without warning.  

 

I'm sorry, but I've never heard a single good reason for all the changes that started with Halo: Reach, and I've yet to hear an explanation as to why such changes ought to continue going forward...though as of right now, I think we can all agree that they will indeed continue.

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Yes, but different entries in those franchises.  There are multiple CoDs and Battlefields that come out at a faster rate and though the mass audience jumps to the newest, some players remain playing the old one.  There are just many, many more choices.  A bigger audience, sure, but also a lot more choices.

What we're trying to argue here is that you're attributing most of the population decline to more competition. While we most certainly did lose some of the population to new franchises, most of them probably switched over because Halo no longer felt like itself.

 

Edit: Removed double negative

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Saturation of a market rarely hurts the pre-existing, well-established contenders within it.  All it really ever does is strengthen the barrier of entry and put reinforcements on the walls which separate the new or newer products from the longstanding kings.  Halo was a longstanding king.  I'm not a Donald Trump or Bill Gates, but business isn't hard to understand unless it's made to be either.  

 

I sincerely am trying to see your points, but all I really hear you saying is Halo shouldn't be expected to succeed as it did with H2 and H3, because there's sooo many new players trying to succeed nowadays.  Halo's not an athlete who's body is going to break down...It's a product, and its success only started to stumble after fundamental and foundational elements of the game were rather drastically changed without warning.  

 

I'm sorry, but I've never heard a single good reason for all the changes that started with Halo: Reach, and I've yet to hear an explanation as to why such changes ought to continue going forward...though as of right now, I think we can all agree that they will indeed continue.

 

there's a lot of really bad logic here (including but not limited to citing Donald Trump as a strong business mind), but there's a willful avoidance of the argument, a lot of false equivalencies, and an inability to separate correlation from causation (or accept multiple causes!). So, see ya 

 

 

What we're trying to argue here is that you're attributing most of the population decline to more competition. While we most certainly did lose some of the population to new franchises, most of them probably switched over because Halo no longer felt like itself.

 

Edit: Removed double negative

 

This is completely fair.  I don't think I said "most" of the decline is due to competition, but I see how you got that idea.  I honestly think Halo changed, and because there was more competition, people found it easier to jump ship.  I was mostly protesting the idea that the population loss is exclusively because of the roots-abandonment, but I think we're now mostly in agreement there.  It'd be interesting to see data on H2/H3 gamertags that spent a lot of time on H2/H3 and where those accounts spend a majority of their time now (especially if those accounts are inactive).

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Yes, but different entries in those franchises. There are multiple CoDs and Battlefields that come out at a faster rate and though the mass audience jumps to the newest, some players remain playing the old one. There are just many, many more choices. A bigger audience, sure, but also a lot more choices.

Ok? If anything this would HELP halo's standing within the xbl top 10 as other game's playerbases are spread between multiple games where as halo's is more concentrated.

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Halo 5s lack of success is its own. It has nothing to do with the market being over saturated. COD BO3 has sold over 20 million copies, has maintained #1 on Xbox Live since release. This is what COD 8. Not to mention all the series people refer to that are apparently stealing Halo's playerbase, COD, Battlefield, Fallout, Battlefront. Were around during H2 and H3 and got dominated by Halo. Not to mention these games that Halo struggles to overtake on the XB1, have larger player bases on the PS4. If you want to say that being multi-plat is an excuse for Halo 5s lack of success, it makes no sense. The games not popular on the platform it's on, making it multi-plat would just make it as unpopular on multiple consoles. 

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Welcome to the club! I started to think nobody else played on high sensitivity. My Inner Deadzone is now set to 5% after I noticed some drift, but one thing that helped was changing the sensitivity curve on the Elite Controller. I settled with "Smooth", but it was a debate between lowering my sensitivity to like 6 and putting it on "Aggressive" sensitivity curve, or keeping it high.

 

I'm pretty happy with the settings I have now but I still notice the aiming issues.

I'm still surprised you can do well in scrims with us with such crazy sens lol

 

Now whenever I get perfected in scrims by you I'm going to be even more upset

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 ot42bOq.gif

lol. You always have the most perfect gif. 

 

When you give Halo 5's campaign 8/10, what do you expect .... :kappa:

 

Shots fired :kappa::rekt::prayers: 

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Halo 5s lack of success is its own. It has nothing to do with the market being over saturated. COD BO3 has sold over 20 million copies, has maintained #1 on Xbox Live since release. This is what COD 8. Not to mention all the series people refer to that are apparently stealing Halo's playerbase, COD, Battlefield, Fallout, Battlefront. Were around during H2 and H3 and got dominated by Halo. Not to mention these games that Halo struggles to overtake on the XB1, have larger player bases on the PS4. If you want to say that being multi-plat is an excuse for Halo 5s lack of success, it makes no sense. The games not popular on the platform it's on, making it multi-plat would just make it as unpopular on multiple consoles.

 

it really annoys me when people say that you can't compare halos popularity now to what it was, because of some perceived market difference, literally throughout h3s life span all the modern trends pretty much got their start, bfbc2, mw2, etc.
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When you give Halo 5's campaign 8/10, what do you expect .... :kappa:

Heh. Looking back at it, I'd probably have lowered it to a 6/10.

 

No continuation of any Halo 4 stuff except Cortana. No Chief gene stuff.

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You say that like it didn't deserve it.

 

I would give it a 7/10. Story wasn't compelling and convoluted, AI was generic and even though it had a huge scale, I felt like I was by myself too often. Halo 1/2/3/R had marines/allies around all the time that gave you a real sense of scale, especially Halo 2. Halo 5's set pieces were decent, but nothing "wow" like Cartographer, Metropolis, Regret (Halo 2 Mission) or The Ark. Also the fact that the Forerunner soldiers didn't look like you were hurting them until they randomly popped into "hurt" mode was very frustrating. Made my weapons feel weak. In other Halo games, the energy shields would flash brighter and brighter then pop, very intelligent game design.

 

Halo 5 has Covenant of course, but they are ugly and "brutish" in Halo 4/5 and I'm not a fan.

 

Of course, all opinion.

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@@Moa interesting, when did you have those laggy games? The game worked surprisingly well for me today after it was a total shit show yesterday, but it's been highly inconsistent for me since release so I'm not getting my hopes up

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Halo 5 campaign was no more than a 4/10 for me. The story was something a 12 year old Waypoint theorist would make up.

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Honestly you guys aren't attributing enough to how bad Halo Reach and Halo 4 were...

 

Their gameplay completely turned me off from Halo completely. Halo 5, even with all of its movement differences, feels MORE like Halo than either of those games.

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@@Moa interesting, when did you have those laggy games? The game worked surprisingly well for me today after it was a total shit show yesterday, but it's been highly inconsistent for me since release so I'm not getting my hopes up

Started noticing it this morning when I was running some Arena with @@Batchford and @@TheSimms. Was even worse in Warzone later on.

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there's a lot of really bad logic here (including but not limited to citing Donald Trump as a strong business mind), but there's a willful avoidance of the argument, a lot of false equivalencies, and an inability to separate correlation from causation (or accept multiple causes!). So, see ya 

No...there really isn't.  You are attempting to argue that 343 and Microsoft changed Halo in response to many other game franchises starting up and entering the market.  Your entire argument is essentially - Market became saturated, and therefore Halo had to change in order to retain its relevancy/success.

 

Do you know why we rarely see brand new nation/worldwide fast-food burger chains popping up?  It's because the market is saturated.  Do you realize the reason that we see the same chains doing the same amount of business in comparison to each other is that the market is saturated? 

 

The fast-food market basically has 3 tiers. Tier #1 = Kingpins like McDonalds Burger King, and Wendy's.  Tier #2 = Places like Jack's and Whataburgers.  Tier #3 = A shit-ton of other places...some widespread...some only regional.

 

The restaurants on tier #3 all do very respectable amounts of business, but they'll likely never reach even tier #2.  Why?  Market is saturated.  At the same time, they are in zero danger of going out of business anytime soon.  Why/how? Market is saturated.  

 

When a market becomes saturated, the opportunity to enter that market becomes unappealing (at best).  Why attempt to enter a market with so many already established players? You don't!  Those businesses are already satisfying the need.  So, you're far more likely to enjoy success by simply trying to enter a different market and satisfy a different need altogether.  

 

This is business 101, and I'm not avoiding anything about your argument.  You're argument just isn't as strong as you clearly seem to believe.  

 

Now, to sort of tie this all together real fast - In the console FPS market, Halo USED TO BE a kingpin...a McDonald's/Burger King.  CoD was and still is a kingpin, and the only reason CoD remains one while Halo does not is because the CoD we see today is extremely similar to the CoD we saw way back in 2007.  Halo, on the other hand, is totally different today than it was when Halo 3 was the latest release.

 

Compare Halo 5 to Halo 3.  They are night and day different.  You can't say the same for CoD.  Yes, CoD has changed some, but the basic framework is still almost exactly the same.  With Halo, we can no longer even say mechanics are the only big change.  Halo is just totally different now, and if not for the name "Halo", nobody in their right mind would bother to argue it wasn't.

 

As far as I can tell, I'm not willfully avoiding an argument...you just don't have one at all.  Still, if you can prove me wrong...I won't hesitate to admit it.  You're just not saying much of anything at all.  The market is filled with many more franchises now, but the general gaming audience is tremendously larger today than it was in 2004 or even 2007 too.  So, even if you were right, there are other factors which would do a good job of negating your primary thesis here.

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I doubt 343 will revert to classic halo gameplay. If not they MUST stick to h5's gameplay. They can't reinvent the wheel again.

 

The act of constantly changing gameplay is harmful. Even if the changes are good.

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Heh. Looking back at it, I'd probably have lowered it to a 6/10.

 

No continuation of any Halo 4 stuff except Cortana. No Chief gene stuff.

Yeah... It was like none of that shit happened LOL

 

Really disappointed about the Chief gene thing when they seemed to be setting it up in those forerunner books, what the hell happened to that?

 

/Immersion ON | [OFF]

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