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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Scanning and responding to some of the posts from the day...

 

On any frustration felt from an average K/D of 1.0, @@Lazerbeard is right in that this is a reflection of good matchmaking in most cases. Obviously there will be variance depending on playlist and individual play style / team role, but in general an average of 1.0 K/D means the skill balance for matchmaking is even. I do think there is a good discussion to be had about the relative "sweatiness" or tightness of the H5 matchmaking algorithm and whether consistently competitive matches make for the best play experience (versus more ebb and flow in the skill differential as @@Vetoed suggests). That balance is something we have been discussing internally and may revisit.

I think what matters the most is providing people with fast matches no matter when they're searching. It's OK for not 100% of matches to be against people of SUPER close skill. It's good to get stomped sometimes, and it's good to also be stomping. It's valuable experience on both ends (both teach spawn trapping, better setups, and the importance of being fast at controlling weapons, coordination, positioning, etc). It doesn't have to be so focused on skill because sometimes it gets boring, frustrating, repetitive (matches against the same people) and it often results in super long search times, or even just no matches at all.

 

Or another issue is this: Let's say someone is super high rank and has a day off. Wants to search high Champion level Arena in the morning. That's proven to be impossible in 99% of scenarios. Halo 3 never had that problem and it made it so it was fun to grind 24/7. I can't tell you how relaxing it was for me to get home from school, have a day off, or just not being able to sleep late at night and knowing I could boot up the game and search FFA. The game lacks something like this right now. I don't always want to be in Warzone when I'm alone, or can't find Arena matches in FFA. I don't always want to get 3 other people on for Arena 4v4 because I know I'll lose if I search alone.

 

This is the biggest gripe I have with this current ranking system right now. It's just not possible to pick a playlist and grind it whenever desired. 

 

I'm waiting to see if the changes the blog listed earlier are significant. I'll test it out and find out, but I'm skeptical because the issue used to be BAD and I doubt a major change happened overnight. But like I said, we'll see.

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Scanning and responding to some of the posts from the day...

 

On any frustration felt from an average K/D of 1.0, @@Lazerbeard is right in that this is a reflection of good matchmaking in most cases. Obviously there will be variance depending on playlist and individual play style / team role, but in general an average of 1.0 K/D means the skill balance for matchmaking is even. I do think there is a good discussion to be had about the relative "sweatiness" or tightness of the H5 matchmaking algorithm and whether consistently competitive matches make for the best play experience (versus more ebb and flow in the skill differential as @@Vetoed suggests). That balance is something we have been discussing internally and may revisit.

 

On distribution of skill bracketing via CSR, the current system is largely working as intended. It varies by hopper, but generally speaking ~40% of the population winds up in Gold, with ~20% on either side (Silver/Platinum) and then it gets smaller from there. Champion is literally the top 200 people at any given time, so that's less than 0.00001%. Bronze is roughly 5% of the population. We will likely keep tweaking the algorithm over time but at this point we're generally happy with how it's working.

 

On placement matches, there is a lot going on behind the scenes. The system takes into account a combination of individual and team performance relative to competition and varies the competition throughout the process based on results to try and accurately assess skill. I understand the desire for transparency on this component of the game but frankly we don't want players to reverse engineer and game the system.

That's really good to know, thanks. With the issue of "constant competetition" faced with the MMR matchmaking system, i love how it's working at the moment, but I really don't think it should be part of social playlists at all. The idea of social playlists is mainly to jump in, with quick search time, match whoever, on settings made for shenanigans rather than tight competitive play.

 

I think they should only search based on regions/connection, to make matching as fast and fullfilling as possible, which is something that has made CoD's Core playlists so successful (ignoring the netcode). All the playlists we have now are just too intensive to be considered casual in the same way we used to have it. Casual things like vehicles, gravity lifts, fun weapons like the Hydra and Laser, machine turrets, barrels and cones. All those things add to a social MM experience we havent has since Reach, and I think is really missing from Halo 5 atm.

 

 

I'd also like to add that Champions should always be able to match Onyx players in my opinion, since champion players are essentially just the top 200 Onyx players anyway, the pool should always encompass both so we don't have the ridiculous search times we see pro's experience on stream.

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@@ChieftaiNZ

 

Not trying to dodge, I posted before your post was there. We are constantly striving to balance ping, ability to match, time to match, skill balance and hopper population in regions like Aus/NZ. We obviously haven't solved this, but as we touched on in the matchmaking update today this is something we are aware of and continually working to improve.

Some Australians prefer better connections, some prefer getting matching. It's a big point of contention, and I really wish we just had a choice over region locking in-game, it would help out so much with issues like this. Even just a Good Connection, Language, Skill preference like Reach had would be good.

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Why do the new aiming options in Halo 5 not fix the problem with the game's aiming mechanics?

Why did he ignore your post on the aiming?

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I think what matters the most is providing people with fast matches no matter when they're searching. It's OK for not 100% of matches to be against people of SUPER close skill. It's good to get stomped sometimes, and it's good to also be stomping. 

 

 

I'm not downplaying the importance of matchmaking speed, but getting stomped can be really discouraging. It can lead to players dropping out of the game permanently, especially if it happens early in their experience (based on data). For what it's worth, H5 MP has the best player retention of any Halo game other than H3. So to some degree the close matches seem to be working. That said, it may not be optimal for all hoppers and there is always room for improvement.

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So I quit out and I received a 15ish minute ban.  Fair enough.  About 20 minutes later I go to give it another shot and now it is telling me I have a 25 minute ban.

 

Did you quit out twice within a close time frame? As far as I can tell it takes awhile to actually ban you and "stack" the aggregating times.

 

Not that I quit out out or anything.

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@@ChieftaiNZ

 

Not trying to dodge, I posted before your post was there. We are constantly striving to balance ping, ability to match, time to match, skill balance and hopper population in regions like Aus/NZ. We obviously haven't solved this, but as we touched on in the matchmaking update today this is something we are aware of and continually working to improve.

 

The January seasons connection was perfect, and I feel this should not have been touched. At this point, I would probably suggest loosening the skill based MM if any change was made. The January season was fantastic. The connection was amazing, but this Feb season has been pretty miserable because of said changes.

 

May I suggest search parameters? Stops the people who are complaining about search times as they can chose to sacrifice connection for increased search time, and it shut people like me up. These forced changes are never going to solve this issue as it will only serve to split the Aus/NZ Community into two groups, Good Connection fans and Fast Search time fans. Giving us the ability to select our preferences are the only way these problems are going to be solved.

 

And I apologise about my previous comments. Coming home to play Halo after a hot day only to fine that the game now lags is a pretty shitty experience.

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I'm not downplaying the importance of matchmaking speed, but getting stomped can be really discouraging. It can lead to players dropping out of the game permanently, especially if it happens early in their experience (based on data). For what it's worth, H5 MP has the best player retention of any Halo game other than H3. So to some degree the close matches seem to be working. That said, it may not be optimal for all hoppers and there is always room for improvement.

How can I get a purple name?
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Tried to get bronze.

 

20 kills 100 deaths

0 for 10

 

Gold 3

 

-__________-

 

I won 10/10 games with a K/D of 3.8 and got platinum 2 for last season, from memory.

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The January seasons connection was perfect, and I feel this should not have been touched. At this point, I would probably suggest loosening the skill based MM if any change was made. The January season was fantastic. The connection was amazing, but this Feb season has been pretty miserable because of said changes.

 

May I suggest search parameters? Stops the people who are complaining about search times as they can chose to sacrifice connection for increased search time, and it shut people like me up.

 

And I apologise about my previous comments. Coming home to play Halo after a hot day only to fine that the game now lags is a pretty shitty experience.

 

 

I appreciate the feedback and I will share with the team. I understand how frustrating a laggy connection can be and I apologize for what you've experienced today.

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I'm not downplaying the importance of matchmaking speed, but getting stomped can be really discouraging. It can lead to players dropping out of the game permanently, especially if it happens early in their experience (based on data). For what it's worth, H5 MP has the best player retention of any Halo game other than H3. So to some degree the close matches seem to be working. That said, it may not be optimal for all hoppers and there is always room for improvement.

Can you pass this along to the monthly content people. Halo 3 Sniper and Mauler please with sprinkles and a cherry on top. <3

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I'm not downplaying the importance of matchmaking speed, but getting stomped can be really discouraging. It can lead to players dropping out of the game permanently, especially if it happens early in their experience (based on data). For what it's worth, H5 MP has the best player retention of any Halo game other than H3. So to some degree the close matches seem to be working. That said, it may not be optimal for all hoppers and there is always room for improvement.

Totally get it but Vetoed has to basically handicap himself to find games. Had to quit playing FFA because he played too goodz

 

Appreciate your fixes but try to relax a little on the matching. I appreciate strict ranking systems but not when they don't find you a match.

 

Cheers

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@@Sal1ent Glad to see you in here again. I have a tip for Team Arena playlist. I think it would be a good choice to have all of the maps/gametypes only under HWC settings. It allows higher level players to practice what they need to practice. Having overgrowth and Breakout Arena does not seem like a good fit to me. I also highly recommend you take out Breakout Arena as people dodge that way too often and add it to breakout playlist. Hope this helps.

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I appreciate the feedback and I will share with the team. I understand how frustrating a laggy connection can be and I apologize for what you've experienced today.

 

Also, until these issues are ironed out, can we get an Unranked Team Arena playlist? I couldn't care about connection too much in social, and it would give us something to do in Arena with no risk to ranks due to connection based difficulties.

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@@ChieftaiNZ

 

Not trying to dodge, I posted before your post was there. We are constantly striving to balance ping, ability to match, time to match, skill balance and hopper population in regions like Aus/NZ. We obviously haven't solved this, but as we touched on in the matchmaking update today this is something we are aware of and continually working to improve.

 

Is optional server/data center selection something you would consider revisiting?

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Ninja said on stream that the aiming felt better on LAN. Yea, okay. 

 

Edit: Oh shit, are they banning people who complain about the aiming? 

That's actually possible. Aiming always felt lighter on lan and heavier the worse the host was under certain conditions. At least that's how I would have described it. LAN just felt like a ball and chain was removed and everything felt light and snappy compared to online play in H3. 

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I appreciate the feedback and I will share with the team. I understand how frustrating a laggy connection can be and I apologize for what you've experienced today.

Hey man, I just wanna say that the aiming mechanics are still my biggest gripe with H5 right now even after tooling around with accel and deadzones, and I would play way more often if the mechanics were restored to whatever the heck the beta had, because there was no reason to change it. It would be really encouraging to at least know that you guys are still looking into the issue.

 

Please.  :(

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Story time:

 

My brother placed Gold 6 last season with around 7/10 wins and a solid KDA. I'd say at least around a 1.5 KD (KDA counter is broken so I'll just say the ratio that makes sense). I just played on my alt and sandbagged the shit out of the placement matches. I went 1-121. I got Gold 5. On top of that, my brother did the same thing as me and went 2-97 and got silver 1. How in the world are those stats not worth bronze? Try and find kids that actually do worse than this. It's harder to get bronze than Onyx and that's a problem. Btw we lost all 10 games too. This system is flawed and there is no way around it.

 

Also, while playing I stumbled upon this FANTASTIC moment: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/DreadBuckle3883/video/14401964

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Hey man, I just wanna say that the aiming mechanics are still my biggest gripe with H5 right now even after tooling around with accel and deadzones, and I would play way more often if the mechanics were restored to whatever the heck the beta had, because there was no reason to change it. It would be really encouraging to at least know that you guys are still looking into the issue.

 

Please. :(

I agree! Halo 5 beta aiming felt like halon4 which felt great! The new aiming still doesnt feel good for me

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the feels

 

 

You guys probably aren't gonna believe me but I played one match where we lost and Palmer did the usual "I'm ending the simulation" speech.

 

Then a few seconds later I hear "we're not out of this yet, you can still destroy the enemy core."

 

Best meme.

 

I think what caused it was the enemy team destroyed two duelist hunters at once to win the game, and thus there were a lot of delayed messages.

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I'm not downplaying the importance of matchmaking speed, but getting stomped can be really discouraging. It can lead to players dropping out of the game permanently, especially if it happens early in their experience (based on data). For what it's worth, H5 MP has the best player retention of any Halo game other than H3. So to some degree the close matches seem to be working. That said, it may not be optimal for all hoppers and there is always room for improvement.

That's the importance of letting people match players who are both above AND below their skill level.

 

The only people who are going to match people above their level and have a very one-sided experience are people in the Diamond/Onyx range facing Champions. However, those people have enough experience with the game to understand it can and will happen, and not quit forever from just one bad match. 

 

One thing that's important to realize is that players will never improve by matching people around their skill level all the time. And I'd argue that not improving at all is far more demotivating than having one or a couple lopsided matches. People need to face better opponents to see the difference in skill and learn from them, which then gives those players a chance to move out of their skill bracket. No need to protect and babysit players so much. It happens in Warzone too, and it's not the end of the world. People move on and become better from it.

 

Even better, if the lower ranks win against higher ranks, then their CSR should go up a lot. Likewise, not drop down as much from a loss. It's a worthwhile risk/reward, and not half as frustrating on the long run.

 

But you bring up that it might not be optimal for all hoppers and I agree with that one. One playlist in particular that should see a big variation in skill-based matches in FFA. The reason being is that having one person being above the rest does not prevent the others from doing good regardless. The others can still have fair battles with others, and it doesn't seem impossible for them to get kills. It's not as frustrating. One person doing good is somewhat normal in FFA. People tend to go off and perform well without warning just because of a power weapon or being at the right place, at the right time. That's not too much of a stretch. What I would suggest however, is making top 3 count as win on the service record so it's not demotivating to lose while still performing well (that one has been a request since the game came out and feature in previous games, no clue why it's been ignored). 

 

It also happens that FFA is the playlist struggling the most with matchmaking times. The fact that people have resorted to stream sniping high level FFA streamers because it's near impossible to find matches otherwise should tell you enough about the state of it.

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