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CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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They don't have to get rid of champion. Champion is a good idea to represent the top players while Onyx still shows you are high mmr They need to rebalance the bottom and make it so that people start lower and that where winning more matters than winning some and getting platinum. The baseline for the ranking system (from what has been explained to me) just seems to be too high right now.

 

Well then I hope I never hear another champion whining about long search times again.

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I would remove Champion and either Platinum or Diamond. Maybe add an in game leaderboard for players and their Onyx rating

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If they'd actually rebalance it so that Bronze players exist and get rid of Champion altogether (and maybe make it so that your ranking at least SEEMS to match your placement performance), maybe it wouldn't be so bad.

 

Now of course...I hope people see the problem of instituting a ranking system meant for 1-on-1 games into a 4v4 game.

I always get scared that they'll put me in Platinum or Diamond everytime they reset the ranks.

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I would remove Champion and either Platinum/Diamond. Maybe add an in game leaderboard for players and their Onyx rating

 

Agreed completely.

 

There is almost no meaningful differentiation from high gold through low diamond.

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I don't care what anyone says, I miss h3's ranking system. H5's just feels wonky and unfulfilling.

 

 

Yeah I'm not a fan of h5's ranking system either. The placement matches is random.

It'd be better to me at least if you could actually go down a division.

 

H3's ranking sytem would of been perfect if it wasn't for the boosting. When I hit 50 in h3 it actually felt I was playing people my level.

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Well then I hope I never hear another champion whining about long search times again.

 

 

If champions can only match champions that may be a problem. I am not aware of how the matchmaking works for the highest levels. But the MMR threshold for matching top level players may simply just need to be tweaked. If Diamond rank and Onyx rank were properly assessing players then it may not be as long a wait since you could see strong players in other tiers. Now it feels like anything below Onyx is just an average player and that's due to the lack of grind and forgiving rank system that doesn't try hard enough to challenge people to grind up.

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I would remove Champion and either Platinum or Diamond. Maybe add an in game leaderboard for players and their Onyx rating

I would not remove champion. Just make it so it does not effect matchmaking. Make 1500+ like a 50 in h3. Everything after that should just be a visual accomplishment.

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Agreed completely.

 

There is almost no meaningful differentiation from high gold through low diamond.

That makes me feel better since I got Gold in Team Slayer whilst the last season I got Diamond.

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What I would want in the ranking system in the future:

  • Remove Champion
  • Remove either Platinum or Diamond
  • Remove the 6th subdivision
  • Make it a bit harder to go from one subdivision to another. I've noticed on when having Waypoint up as I play it only takes about 3 or 4 games to go up a subdivision
  • Make it so we can drop out of an entire division (ie: Drop from Platinum 1 and be placed to Gold 5)
  • Add in an in-game leaderboard per playlist for Onyx players and their rating
  • Dont place a player in Onyx after 10 games
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So infinity how does it feel to be a 343 shill

 

I would also like to shout out to @@Hard Way for being genuinely nice and almost never shitposting, your streams ae great even if you dont get high numbers and your vids are excellent

Thank you for the kind words bud.  It's nice to feel appreciated :)

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Just got Onyx after 10 games, wish there was more ranks to grind  :wacko:

Champion :simms:

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I get where you're coming from but chill dude.  It's only you putting pressure on yourself like that, if you don't want to be that sweaty all the time then maybe devote a playlist to being sweaty and chill in the rest or vice versa. 

 

That's what I'm saying, it's not about pressure, it's about caring. I don't want to care every game I play. I don't want to put my all in just to scrape in  a 49-50 win. I really enjoy those games, but not every game.

 

What's your rank? Are you going in solo every game? None of my friends play anymore so I'm trying to get a group of guys to play with from here as going in solo gets old. I've gotten as high as Onyx ~1560 or so by myself going in solo. If that's too low or a rank for you that's fine if you don't want to add, but if you're lower and wanna run games I'm down.

 

ll Synergy ll

 

I (was) Diamond 6 and one game away from onyx so I searched solo for a bit but I could never make it to onyx due to team-mate luck and matching team-of-fours. Plus of course some games the enemy team was just better.

 

I'm genuinely interested in this sentiment. I'm not faulting you because I feel it too, but the job of a good matchmaking system is to give every player close to a 50% win/loss ratio, and find players that you go roughly 1.0 k/d against. If you're destroying dudes in matchmaking that means: the matchmaking system matched you with too easy of a game and therefore didn't do that good of a job, and that whoever you're playing against certainly isn't having a good time. If you want to quit after getting a 1.0 k/d, wouldn't all the people who you faced on an easier matchup, who almost certainly got dunked on definitely want to quit?

 

I guess what I'm saying is if getting above a 1.0 k/d is the only way to be satisfied doesn't that lend itself to a sort of entropy, where people who get 1.0 or less in their games drop out and the ones who do better than that consolidate until there's very few people left?

 

Is it that there is a general dislike for feeling "average", or even struggling to feel average that makes you want to quit? Is it perhaps because there's not a lot of feedback to tell you how you died and maybe how you could have played better? Is there anything the game could do to make you feel like having an even kill/death ratio means you fought a good match vs other skilled opponents and you should feel good about competing well against that team? I feel like more than anything, this is the secret to making a very successful competitive game: having a 50% (or even a little less) success ratio but still feeling like you want to get back in there and try again.

 

Maybe the matchmaking system shouldn't always optimize for the closest matches. There's a concept of "streak breaking" when dealing with random numbers, and maybe it applies here? If you seem like you're having an off-day (lost 3 matches in a row, finished lowest in k/d) maybe the matchmaking system should throw you a lowball easy game to break your losing streak and help regain your confidence? That match wouldn't be fair and probably not be fun for the opposing team so I don't know how to balance that out. I've got some oddball ideas but I dunno how one would test this stuff without just trying it and seeing if people hate it.

 

I'll give my shot at a reply for this:

 

- The matchmaking system is reasonable for competitive matches, I am getting closer games than in past Halo's. The problem is about caring. Some days I want to play ranked, I want close, competitive matches and I want to learn new things and play hard. Other times I want to just play Arena, but I don't really want to put all my concentration in it. Just sit back and play a little bit. What bothers me is that I have no choice in this. I can play ranked... or ranked.

 

If there was a social playlist, I would be a lot happier, as I could then choose the mode for the mentality that I'm in. If I'm coming home from a busy day at work, I'm usually not in the mood to play ranked.

 

Of course, when I wrote that I was salty, there is no denying that, but at the moment I have 5-10 minute search times (sometimes longer or even not at all) and after this extended period of time, I get thrown into a game where it's against a team of four (due to the parameters becoming wider) and I get stomped and it feels like a huge waste of 20 minutes. The games that are close, but actually feel like my team can win (so not against teams of four) are significantly more enjoyable, as you state.

 

I agree with what you're saying, but it's not about K/D or win streaks for me, it's about fun. I enjoy close ranked games half the time, and play-for-nothing social games the other time (no reward at the end bar XP). It's not that I want to 'stomp' kids it's that I don't want to put my all in every game I play. I also want to play a playlist with my Gold/Plat friends without having ranks being affected at the end of it.

 

That was a little bit of a incoherant rant, but I hope I got my POV across. I'm not giving up playing Halo 5, that post meant just for that day.

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Just noticed they removed the shotgun from overgrowth, is there a list of things they changed or any other notable things?

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I did upgrade when it first came out. Worked fine until a couple of weeks ago when I had a fatal error and had to wipe the machine and reinstall windows. Any attempt to update comes up with the same error now so I'm stuck on Windows 8.

Sux dude

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Champion :simms:

Usually rocking a solo party since all my friends pretty much gave up on Halo  :wutface:

 

One day.. one day

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I think the reason a lot of us aren't really interested in H5 even though it's much better from a competitive standpoint than default Reach/4 and possibly 3 is that we're just tired of dealing with this franchise's flaws. If this game had come out right after H3 or maybe even Reach I would probably be pretty pumped to play, but after Reach, H4 and MCC I'm just burnt out on dealing with annoyances in Halo. I don't have the patience to deal with the broken aiming, the autos and the other small issues. For casuals, there STILL isn't a good social experience, and Halo hasn't had one since H3. I don't understand why a ranked and social split being good is a tough concept. Between 12 man Warzone teams running around utterly destroying and of course having to sweat it out every game in the Arena playlists there's just nowhere to relax and have fun. You can claim it's all attitude, but being on respawn all game unless you put on the sweatpants just isn't fun.

 

I think Halo is ultimately suffering from franchise fatigue at this point. Poor release after poor release after poor release has slowly degraded people's interest in the game, and unfortunately I don't think 343 is really capable of delivering the type of release that would put us back on the map in a significant way.

 

Lack of content at launch combined with post-2007 Halos trademark "so close to being amazing but many small annoyances that add up" gameplay didn't help the problem either.

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Blegh, for everyone claiming how easy the BR is, I can't use it for crap in this game (H2 BR is a different story).  I like the DMR, Carbine and the Pistol, but for some reason the BR just feels like shit to me.  

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You guys talking about removing certain tiers of the ranking system are looking at the wrong things. All that needs to happen is lessened search restrictions. Champion is just a visual representation of the Top 200 in the world. On its own, it has no impact whatsoever on MM. Multiple division tiers neither.

 

The problem is that most ranks aren't used, because like I've explained in a different post, the neutral value for CSR starts at the 21st highest rank out of 30. That means 20 ranks are below the neutral CSR point. You have to lose A LOT to get in the lowest tiers legit. Like, it's unrealistic to expect people to lose so much and not just smash their console out of frustration before reaching that rank. Legit less than 0.1% of the population would endure losing so much and stick to ranked.

 

Another problem is the fact that high ranks struggle to get matches so much in the first place due to grinding out the CSR since it's the main incentive to touch ranked. Halo 3 had that problem where once people were 50s, there was nothing to grind for except getting better. At some point with TU2, Bungie added EXP per playlist, and people grew an interest in having 50s with a lot of EXP on them, which was good for the game. But there was still this problem where some random person's 50 and mine were not the same level of skill at all 99% of the time. CSR aims to fix that, which is a good thing. And since there isn't EXP per playlist to act an incentive, CSR is needed. What we should look at is a hard cap on MMR.

 

Though I will say this, I think a cap on MMR wouldn't even be needed if the search restrictions worked a bit better. It's been said to have been improved, so we'll see, but unless I can search FFA 24/7 (which I guarantee will NOT happen because 343 is so incremental, safe and slow on important updates) I'll assume nothing worthwhile or has significant changed.

 

EDIT: reworded a part of this because I deleted something and it stopped making sense.

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The problem is that most ranks aren't used, because like I've explained in a different post, the neutral value for CSR starts at the 21st highest rank out of 30. That means 20 ranks are below the neutral CSR point. You have to lose A LOT to get in the lowest tiers legit. Like, it's unrealistic to expect people to lose so much and not just smash their console out of frustration before reaching that rank. Legit less than 0.1% of the population would endure losing so much and stick to ranked.

 

The CSR split has nothing to do with the moronic method that 343 has chosen to separate the divisions, in which apparently even if you LOSE TEN TIMES IN A ROW you'll still get silver. The divisions should just be proportional, period. 

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Blegh, for everyone claiming how easy the BR is, I can't use it for crap in this game (H2 BR is a different story).  I like the DMR, Carbine and the Pistol, but for some reason the BR just feels like shit to me.  

 

I'm a H2 Kid, but I have to say that in H5, picking up a BR after using pistol feels like im picking up a power weapon. It's a guaranteed 4 - 5 shot every single time. That shit cray

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The CSR split has nothing to do with the moronic method that 343 has chosen to separate the divisions, in which apparently even if you LOSE TEN TIMES IN A ROW you'll still get silver. The division should just be proportional, period. 

There's more that goes into it than just losing 10 times in a row, but I think we're debating for the same thing.

 

I'm just explaining that the problems don't come from the system itself, nor specific stuff like having a Champion division. It just comes from the way 343 has it set up. 

 

I guarantee I could use the same exact features, looks, names, and behavior as the current ranking system and make it the best any Halo game has ever had. The problem is that it's just set up upside down and backwards for the most part.

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