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CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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KT wise the pistol still isn't good. Plus average kill time means more than perfect and the BR/DMR all are way easier to use for basically the same kill time. Again, the only reason pistol is #1 is because it is the starting precision weapon. No pro would choose a pistol over a BR if given the chance to choose one or the other. Victory X did absolutely awful this event so I wouldn't look at his set up as the main thing. The pistol is the weakest rifle and in turn will also get beaten by more autos. Yet it's also the most difficult and has bad RRR. That's a problem.

 

Play a 4v4 where one team spawns with BR's and the other spawns with pistols. Do this with every rifle in the game and you'll see a pattern. Now, play a 4v4 and never use anything but your pistol. Look at the results.

 

Hell, try and play FFA with just a pistol. You'll see in a second that the game is not balanced.

Practicality wise it still beats a lot of Rifles because players at this point have found out pretty well how to use Thruster in battles now and make them very unexpected which even if they have the better rifle as you guys say, they still crap on them through smart play (which even if they had a Rifle they would still have to do ) 

 

VicX did bad this event but 1 event doesn't = bad playstyle. His playstyle is smart as hell and even if we were to label him as a bad player (he isn't and most of the time as a priority 3/4 you have to commit to what your team is doing. Aka, commiting to what ninja wants to do). Even if he was an example you don't want to see, Snip3down is an even more extreme when it comes to the lack of autos and he was shitting on everyone that event with the Pistol even when they had the BR/DMR/Carbine. Basically, get good with the Pistol and you're strength as a spawner is way better than the other players.

 

the BR has a RRR range but honestly there were a lot of reversals with the Pistol. So if the BR team were the theoretically zone out the enemy really well and not let them do anything, sure they would win but a Pistol team would not make it so snowbally as you think it would. Even when CLG had complete control of Truth Slayer (which if oyu ask me is the most teamshot centric map because of all the long LoS and openness of the map) EG was able to break it down easily because of smart play with just starting weapons.

 

I don't think the game is perfect but you guys are making it sound like the game turns to a complete snowball which is completely false because even when a team had complete control, the other team was breaking it down easily and there were a lot of close games even with the "OP" rifles and the like. there isn't a snowball in this game unless your team is playing ridiculously well.

 

 

 

I don't play FFA so cant comment on that

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Have you ever played Halo before?

 

Longer than you, I guarantee it. And you know the biggest issue with every single Halo that isn't CE? They have a two tier weapon system. Utility weapon, and the power weapons. Everything else is entirely useless.

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Longer than you, I guarantee it. And you know the biggest issue with every single Halo that isn't CE? They have a two tier weapon system. Utility weapon, and the power weapons. Everything else is entirely useless.

So a game where autos and on map rifles can beat your starting utility weapon is better? There has never been a Halo game with more random engagements than this game. If you think super powerful autos are a good thing for competitive Halo you are insane.
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So basically some people are fine with being at a disadvantage off spawn and the other people want a balanced Halo game. Gotcha. 

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Practicality wise it still beats a lot of Rifles because players at this point have found out pretty well how to use Thruster in battles now and make them very unexpected which even if they have the better rifle as you guys say, they still crap on them through smart play (which even if they had a Rifle they would still have to do )

 

VicX did bad this event but 1 event doesn't = bad playstyle. His playstyle is smart as hell and even if we were to label him as a bad player (he isn't and most of the time as a priority 3/4 you have to commit to what your team is doing. Aka, commiting to what ninja wants to do). Even if he was an example you don't want to see, Snip3down is an even more extreme when it comes to the lack of autos and he was shitting on everyone that event with the Pistol even when they had the BR/DMR/Carbine. Basically, get good with the Pistol and you're strength as a spawner is way better than the other players.

 

the BR has a RRR range but honestly there were a lot of reversals with the Pistol. So if the BR team were the theoretically zone out the enemy really well and not let them do anything, sure they would win but a Pistol team would not make it so snowbally as you think it would. Even when CLG had complete control of Truth Slayer (which if oyu ask me is the most teamshot centric map because of all the long LoS and openness of the map) EG was able to break it down easily because of smart play with just starting weapons.

 

I don't think the game is perfect but you guys are making it sound like the game turns to a complete snowball which is completely false because even when a team had complete control, the other team was breaking it down easily and there were a lot of close games even with the "OP" rifles and the like. there isn't a snowball in this game unless your team is playing ridiculously well.

 

 

 

I don't play FFA so cant comment on that

Of course they could still break set ups, but that's doesn't mean it's a fair fight. The team with control snowballs more than any other title, no matter how little it may seem to you or me. But I just want to know if you think pros would pick up the pistol and use it even half as often as they do if it was Br starts. Because as it is the pistol is outclassed by every rifle.

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Here's an idea: Maybe you shouldn't have to hit a perfect kill in close range while strafing like a madman with the hardest weapon in the game and still lose/just barely win because your opponent was spraying a noob weapon. The autos should never be straight up better than the utility weapon, regardless of range.

 

 

So the autos should just go back to being entirely useless like H2-H4. Got it. Might as well just remove them from the game at that point.

 

So a game where autos and on map rifles can beat your starting utility weapon is better? There has never been a Halo game with more random engagements than this game. If you think super powerful autos are a good thing for competitive Halo you are insane.

 

Yea, the auto should beat the utility weapon in its intended range. That is kinda the point of them being in the game. The rifles on the other hand, you are exaggerating. The BR (and DMR) kills in the exact same time as the pistol. The Light Rifle kills faster, which is fine since they aren't over abundant. The carbine I believe kills in the same time as the pistol, but I may be wrong. If it is faster though it's fine because of how hard it is to get a perfect.

 

You spawn with the second fastest killing utility weapon in the game and have to run around the map to pickup the best one (LR) or one that is easier to use.

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They didn't even have a niche or purpose in those games.

That's arguable. Many people still used autos in certain CQC situations in those games. I doubt that many people stopped playing Halo 2, 3, or Reach because the autos weren't powerful enough, whereas a countless amount of people have quit Halo 5 because the automatics are too powerful. There were reasons why Bungie made their utility weapon/automatic weapon balance the way they did. I wonder if 343 put any thought into Bungie's reasoning behind their weapon balance decisions in their highly successful Halo games. I'm guessing not. 

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So the autos should just go back to being entirely useless like H2-H4. Got it. Might as well just remove them from the game at that point.

 

 

Yea, the auto should beat the utility weapon in its intended range. That is kinda the point of them being in the game. The rifles on the other hand, you are exaggerating. The BR (and DMR) kills in the exact same time as the pistol. The Light Rifle kills faster, which is fine since they aren't over abundant. The carbine I believe kills in the same time as the pistol, but I may be wrong. If it is faster though it's fine because of how hard it is to get a perfect.

 

You spawn with the second fastest killing utility weapon in the game and have to run around the map to pickup the best one (LR) or one that is easier to use.

1.) in CE do the autos beat the pistol kill time wise? Nope. And even you just said CE was the most balanced. So there's one.

2.) the pistols kill time is only .07 seconds better than the BR and equal to the DMR. With the buffer in latency thy will trade if they both perfect.

3.) kill time doesn't make the pistol better. Do we really need to go in depth (again) with all the reasons the BR is SOOO much easier to use? It also has more RRR and waaaaay more magnetism.

 

Seriously, if you think a low skill weapon should beat the most skillful weapon in the game more than 5% of the time you are crazy.

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Really? He deserves the kill because he had the other spawn weapon out at that instance? News to me.

 

You forgot the part where he came around the corner, I'm assuming he meant close range. Even then if you're good you can perfect them with the pistol.

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You forgot the part where he came around the corner, I'm assuming he meant close range. Even then if you're good you can perfect them with the pistol.

No you can't. The AR has a better perfect kill time than the pistol. And all the other autos kill even faster.

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Okay, like, are people seriously defending the pistol as it is while (I assume) simultaneously saying "yeah it'd be better if it was a 4-shot"? 

 

Pick one. Don't argue like a disingenuous idiot. 

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Seriously, if you think a low skill weapon should beat the most skillful weapon in the game more than 5% of the time you are crazy.

But if they balanced the pickup weapons with equal autoaim and more damage then you'd just be complaining even harder

 

There is nothing wrong with the concept of tier 2 weapons conceptually, you just think there is because Halo's execution of tier 2 weapons has always been horrible

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I'm just gonna leave this with one last post. This is getting ridiculous.

 

The BR/DMR/LR/Carbine are all better than the pistol. Even if you think it's insignificant you can't argue this. The pistol is supposed to be a utility weapon. No other Halo has done this. That is a problem.

 

The automatics have a faster ttk than the precision weapons. Again, this is a fact. No other Halo has done this. This is a problem.

 

Believe what you want, this game is using a different form of "balance" than any other title.

 

Enjoy the all-star game boyz

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That's arguable. Many people still used autos in certain CQC situations in those games. I doubt that many people stopped playing Halo 2, 3, or Reach because the autos weren't powerful enough, whereas a countless amount of people have quit Halo 5 because the automatics are too powerful. There were reasons why Bungie made their utility weapon/automatic weapon balance the way they did. I wonder if 343 put any thought into Bungie's reasoning behind their weapon balance decisions in their highly successful Halo games. I'm guessing not. 

 

I can count on 1 hand how many times I saw people use auto's in Halo 2/3 at the high level back in the day. It didn't happen. In fact the only memorable time I can think of auto use in Halo 3 was in doubles streams when people would AR, 5 years after Halo 3's relevance.

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I'm just gonna leave this with one last post. This is getting ridiculous.

 

The BR/DMR/LR/Carbine are all better than the pistol. Even if you think it's insignificant you can't argue this. The pistol is supposed to be a utility weapon. No other Halo has done this. That is a problem.

 

The automatics have a faster ttk than the precision weapons. Again, this is a fact. No other Halo has done this. This is a problem.

 

Believe what you want, this game is using a different form of "balance" than any other title.

 

Enjoy the all-star game boyz

Actually nearly every fucking Halo did it

 

Halo 2: SMG only start

Halo 3: AR only start

Reach: AR+weak Magnum start

 

It was always comp settings that created the concept of a utility weapon

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Actually nearly every fucking Halo did it

 

Halo 2: SMG only start

Halo 3: AR only start

Reach: AR+weak Magnum start

 

It was always comp settings that created the concept of a utility weapon

And what the fuck do you think we are arguing about? COMPETITIVE SETTINGS.

 

Okay that's my last post forreal. No need to reply unless of course you really feel the need to.

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Out of curiousity, does anyone know what happens when two people with Advanced Sensors encounter eachother? Do they cancel one another out and act as normal radar?

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So the autos should just go back to being entirely useless like H2-H4. Got it. Might as well just remove them from the game at that point.

 

Not at all. They just need to go back to being niche weapons with unique properties again, like in CE. The amount of raw damage they currently deal is simply not justified.

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Out of curiousity, does anyone know what happens when two people with Advanced Sensors encounter eachother? Do they cancel one another out and act as normal radar?

 

It cancels each other out, yes. If you have advanced sensors, others with advanced sensors can see you.

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I think people are losing sight of the reason we don't like automatic weapons in Halo in the first place. I'll give you a hint, it's the same reason we don't like bloom. 

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I think people are losing sight of the reason we don't like automatic weapons in Halo in the first place. I'll give you a hint, it's the same reason we don't like bloom. 

But some pros liked bloom, and we all know pros opinions >>> our opinions. They're so much better at the game so they know better than we do. 

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But some pros liked bloom, and we all know pros opinions >>> our opinions. They're so much better at the game so they know better than we do. 

 

What. Which pro liked bloom? Unfollowed/blocked.

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What. Which pro liked bloom? Unfollowed/blocked.

Ogre 2.

 

It's why CLG dropped him :simms:

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1.) in CE do the autos beat the pistol kill time wise? Nope. And even you just said CE was the most balanced. So there's one.

2.) the pistols kill time is only .07 seconds better than the BR and equal to the DMR. With the buffer in latency thy will trade if they both perfect.

3.) kill time doesn't make the pistol better. Do we really need to go in depth (again) with all the reasons the BR is SOOO much easier to use? It also has more RRR and waaaaay more magnetism.

 

Seriously, if you think a low skill weapon should beat the most skillful weapon in the game more than 5% of the time you are crazy.

1: the autos have uses outside of killing. the PR has stun, the AR has quick camo.

2: i said they are even in KT so what is this point of this?

3: I didn't say the pistol was better. It is the exact same as the BR, but harder to use. My point was that the BR isn't BETTER than the pistol, it is just easier.

 

Okay, like, are people seriously defending the pistol as it is while (I assume) simultaneously saying "yeah it'd be better if it was a 4-shot"? 

 

Pick one. Don't argue like a disingenuous idiot. 

Not defending the pistol. I'm saying the autos aren't "OP". The game would 100% play better with a 4sk pistol while still allowing the SMG and SR to be viable.

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Not defending the pistol. I'm saying the autos aren't "OP". The game would 100% play better with a 4sk pistol while still allowing the SMG and SR to be viable.

 

...But that's the point. Within the contextual balance of H5, the automatics are overpowered compared to the weapon that is supposed to be the utility weapon. 

 

If the H5 pistol was a four shot or even a three shot, the automatics would not be OP anymore. 

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