Jump to content
CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Recommended Posts

Don't go negging him when he is preaching the truth. You all should be negging @@Sal1ent et al, but instead you praise them with plus rep each time they show up and post. Just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

 

Lots of people treat DEVs as angels lol.

 

 

Suuurreeee dont shoot the messenger but with what I've put into Halo Imma roast 343i when they do dumb shit.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm a bit surprised you hadn't heard the phrase in that context before. It goes all the way back to Puckett in H1 if I remember correctly.

and every sport imaginable 

Share this post


Link to post

.....only the halo 4 and 5 campaign are complete and utter trash that even the campaign kids hate.

First off, we're not "kids" and using that as a term for describing those who enjoy campaign is quite shortsighted. Second, Halo 4's story was pretty damn good. Really beats out anything in the original trilogy for me. Halo 5's, while suffering from some disjoints and obvious hasty rewrites, was still enjoyable, and very good to me.

 

Post Edit: Sigh, I'll bold some things to emphasis personal opinion. Also, to the former "we're not kids line", I'll emphasis that I myself have only heard it in a negative context. I also just asked a few people I know, what they through the word implied, just to be sure I wasn't the only one, and to confirm, the use of the term "kid" to refer to someone is viewed as negative, where I come from.  Please don't assume I'm just being sensitive, or on a high horse, due to that. I just disliked the idea that it seemed that certain people, who like certain things, are looked down upon, or seen in a "lesser light" here, for clarification. 

  • Upvote (+1) 3
  • Downvote (-1) 9

Share this post


Link to post

At this point I would love for 343 to simply work on the campaign and let another studio work on MP/Forge.

 

I mean, 343 create Halo titles that are the campaign and separately sold as a single product, while another studio comes out with MP/Forge games entirely unrelated other than Halo on the box.

 

(Does my lack of interest in campaign show here?)

 

Not without some considerable change.

 

I've found 343i's original Halo campaigns to be sub-par in comparison to those in earlier titles, both in terms of story and mission design/gameplay.

 

@@TheIcePrincess obviously it's your own opinion (as is mine just above), which you are welcome to, but calling Halo 5's story 'very good' is really stretching the definition of good, to quote a previous post of mine:

 

I  personally had a number of issues with the campaign's story:

  • Locke was denied the character development and personality to be able to carry (the vast majority of) a Halo game. What little character we saw from him was also of the bland 'boy scout' variety, with hints at a more interesting character through his past as an ONI operative swatted away. This also means that Locke doesn't really work as the contrast to the Chief he was billed as, and the goal of establishing a player character who is not merely a cypher for the player, and thus addressing the issue some have with Chief as a character, is left not met.
  • Blue Team were wholly underutilized and underdeveloped, which is perhaps a function of the decision to only feature them in three missions of the campaign. This also had the unfortunate side effect of allowing little time to develop Cortana, in particular her philosophical transition from Halo 4, which means that again (like Halo 4), 343i have not afforded the requisite screen time to properly develop their 'villain' (although I feel like I'm doing the character a disservice by using that term).
  • The 'Master Chief goes rogue/AWOL' plot essentially amounted to the UNSC preferring that another Spartan team go in search of Cortana, and John not liking that. There was no complex moral battle in which the the motivations and actions of the Master Chief were questioned or actions of ONI were examined, as had been hinted prior to release and as was the undercurrent through much of Karen Traviss' novels and the pre-release material.
  • The hunter/hunted dynamic also fell rather flat, particularly as there was no mystery to the Chief's motivations very early on, and Locke learned and understood this very early on. This stymied character development and examination through what could have been a proper Chief/Locke rivalry, and the plot very much became a two-team race to Cortana, which is much less interesting.
  • Halo 5's story also didn't feel like that of a true sequel to Halo 4, as much as it did a sequel to a game in which Cortana dies. There was very little follow-up on many of Halo 4's other developments, and as such the plot felt both unsatisfying and slightly out of place overall. Extending on this, there are now a number of plots which went unaddressed and left dangling (and which, to my mind at least, should have been advanced in Halo 5) including the Librarian's gift to John through his geas, Chakas/343 Guilty Spark's search for the Lifeshaper (either the Librarian or her replacement), the location/actions of the Forerunners who survived the activation of the Halo array, and so on. There was also some conflict with previously revealed information, such as the Domain supposedly being destroyed.
  • I felt that the return of Cortana so early on somewhat diminished the impact of her 'death' in Halo 4; it was only really the opening cutscene to 'Blue Team' that dealt with the Chief's grief to any significant degree.
  • There are also some more minor issues I had, including Jul being killed off through a cutscene at the end of the campaign's first mission, some odd character moments (unless something happens in Escalation, I would've thought Halsey's meeting with Palmer would have been somewhat less pleasant), the cutscenes themselves were often ending just as they appeared to be heading somewhere interesting (Roland's rant is an example, even if it did feel unwarranted), and there was some rather cringe-worthy dialogue: 'Constructors build things, right? So let's break something.'

Share this post


Link to post

First off, we're not "kids" and using that as a term for describing those who enjoy campaign is quite shortsighted. Second, Halo 4's story was pretty damn good. Really beats out anything in the original trilogy for me. Halo 5's, while suffering from some disjoints and obvious hasty rewrites, was still enjoyable, and very good.

First of all, kids is a pretty widely used term and hardly had a negative connotation anymore. I refer to beyond members as sweaty kids, it's not an insult.

 

Second of all, Halo 4s writing as a whole was borderline atrocious. Poor introduction of the didact, lots of cannon errors for the forerunners, flat characters all around (except lasky), the ending was flat out ridiculous (I'm talking about the ridiculous cortana crazy duplicates pinning the didact down to be taken out by a single pulse grenade in a QTE). And that's JUST the plot, don't get me started on how linear and shitty the level design was, the stupid AI, etc. The ONLY redeeming factor was the Didact's voice actor/speech.

 

The only thing worse than Halo 4 would be..the halo 5 campaign. Which was the most childish, poorly written, undeveloped fan fiction of a halo story I have ever dreamed of. And frankly if you think either of those can even stand up next to the beauty of the OG trilogy's level design, writing, music, plot, character development, AI, or..anything really, then I just can't take your opinion seriously.

  • Upvote (+1) 9
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

First off, we're not "kids" and using that as a term for describing those who enjoy campaign is quite shortsighted. Second, Halo 4's story was pretty damn good. Really beats out anything in the original trilogy for me. Halo 5's, while suffering from some disjoints and obvious hasty rewrites, was still enjoyable, and very good. 

I only really enjoyed the Cortana-Chief relationship in Halo 4, and honestly, Halo 5's story is so shallow I really don't see how you can call it very good. There's no character development, there's no build up or grand reveal for Cortana being the main villain, and the whole "Chief vs Locke" conflict is practically non-existent. Hell, it feels more like Chief just forgot his sack lunch, so his mom sent Locke after him to make sure he got his food before the bus left for school.

 

The whole story just trudges along with minimal effort.

 

 

the beauty of the OG trilogy's writing, plot, character development, or..anything really, then I just can't take your opinion seriously. 

 

 

Uh, what? ...Have you ever experienced a story that wasn't Halo? Because the trilogy's stories are many things, but they're not really "good", and if even they are, it's CERTAINLY not because of any thing you just mentioned. Each of the trilogy's plots basically boils down to the Covenant finding another Forerunner artifact that's going to wipe out all life in the galaxy, and its up to the Chief to stop them. Flood are also there. Then, the Forerunner artifact blows up (or gets infested by Flood in the case of Halo 2, and eventually ends up glassed). The characters are hardly anything more than cardboard cut outs. Chief is your basic catch-phrase uttering action hero, Cortana's the tech support side kick, Johnson's the black guy who provides the comic relief, and Miranda Keyes is the person who tells you what to do. They are nothing outside of these roles.

 

That being said, I can at least commend Halo CE for its plot, when comparing it to the other two. The story was simply about a lone Spartan fighting off aliens and space zombies alike in his quest to stop a galaxy-killing super weapon. It wasn't anything more than that, but more importantly, it didn't try to be anything more than that.

  • Upvote (+1) 5
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

First off, we're not "kids" and using that as a term for describing those who enjoy campaign is quite shortsighted. Second, Halo 4's story was pretty damn good. Really beats out anything in the original trilogy for me. Halo 5's, while suffering from some disjoints and obvious hasty rewrites, was still enjoyable, and very good. 

That it was better for you doesn't make it better. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone on here who really agrees the 343 campaigns are better than the bungie ones. Bungie provided a richer universe, MUCH better character development and relationships and actually gave a fuck with the level design. But I didn't neg you for that, I negged you because of your stance regarding "kids". It's not an insult, get off your high horse.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

So there's a possibility that the Hammer, Sticky Detonator, and Concussion Rifle are coming back?

 

TJNVb56.jpg

ew. I'd slap someone wearing that shirt. Shit looks horrible.

Share this post


Link to post

So there's a possibility that the Hammer, Sticky Detonator, and Concussion Rifle are coming back?

 

TJNVb56.jpg

Doesn't look like they've left any room for patches.

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

Not without some considerable change.

 

I've found 343i's original Halo campaigns to be sub-par in comparison to those in earlier titles, both in terms of story and mission design/gameplay.

 

@@TheIcePrincess obviously it's your own opinion (as is mine just above), which you are welcome to, but calling Halo 5's story 'very good' is really stretching the definition of good, to quote a previous post of mine:

Why didn't 343 make a spin-off Halo ODST centered around Locke and his ODST/ONI days before Halo 5? Could've been good and maybe justified Locke being in 85% of the campaign. I still think H5's story is garbo though. The advertising was super misleading with the MC vs Locke/ONI covering up the original spartans.

Share this post


Link to post

First off, we're not "kids" and using that as a term for describing those who enjoy campaign is quite shortsighted. Second, Halo 4's story was pretty damn good. Really beats out anything in the original trilogy for me. Halo 5's, while suffering from some disjoints and obvious hasty rewrites, was still enjoyable, and very good. 

 

Halo 4's story was mediocre. Only thing saving it is the Cortana-Chief relationship, and even that has a lot of missing thematic potential.

 

I really don't understand how you like 343's work so much. This will sound completely rude and judgmental, but I honestly would like to ask if H4 was your first Halo? If it is, then I'd understand, because Reach was my first MP Halo, and even though I'm aware of its objective flaws, my love for it often means I overlook or trivialise said flaws.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Why didn't 343 make a spin-off Halo ODST centered around Locke and his ODST/ONI days before Halo 5? Could've been good and maybe justified Locke being in 85% of the campaign. I still think H5's story is garbo though. The advertising was super misleading with the MC vs Locke/ONI covering up the original spartans.

 

As I indicated in that post, I was also incredibly disappointed with Halo 5's story. As to 343i making a Locke-focused spin-off to build up that character for the coverage he got (mission-number-wise) in Halo 5, that would require two non-trivial changes. One, Locke' characterization would need significant change, as I said above his character in Halo 5 was tantamount to a boy scout; I don't know if you've seen the film, but Benicio del Toro's character in Sicario (released this year) would have been a great basis for Locke, namely if 343i had actually made use of his background as an ONI agent(/assassin). Two, Halo 5's story as it stands, simply can't support as little Master Chief content as was present in the game, and the reason for that isn't some obsessive attachment to playing as the Chief, but the fact that the thrust of the story lies with the actions of Cortana, and that can only be (and was only) meaningfully explored during Blue Team's missions, i.e. to properly develop Cortana's villainous transition, the Locke/Chief balance needed shifting in John's direction.

Share this post


Link to post

I only really enjoyed the Cortana-Chief relationship in Halo 4, and honestly, Halo 5's story is so shallow I really don't see how you can call it very good. There's no character development, there's no build up or grand reveal for Cortana being the main villain, and the whole "Chief vs Locke" conflict is practically non-existent. Hell, it feels more like Chief just forgot his sack lunch, so his mom sent Locke after him to make sure he got his food before he got on the bus.

 

The whole story just trudges along with minimal effort.

There kinda was, in reference to Cortana. It's a subtle thing, but also lays in dialogue, rather than being pushed out in front of you. It's a transition from the normal attitude of "she's here and back", to the "she's been leading them around for hours" from Exuberant, which has at suspicious undertones on its own. You can also see a change in tone from the Chief over the campaign. Initially, he's almost "excited" to have her back. "Energetic" I would say. But, by the Breaking, he's turned into a rather cold, skeptical and generally cautious character, which is quite a shift, given he generally doesn't ACT like that around Cortana. How he essentially "turned" on her by the end, when asking her about the bodycount, from the Guardians' arrival, was quite a turn from his normal self.

 

On the second note, I mean, I personally never EXPECTED a big fight from Locke and Chief. I know the disappointment in it not happening from people (Due to ads and such), don't get me wrong, but it happening didn't really alter the story, nor would it have, either way, if it was drawn out, or one small cutscene. There's no way in hell he'd have gone on to kill Locke, or mortally wound him, so a small fist fight is essentially all I could see working. (To add onto this, you can also see a more "protective" side of Chief with his "Like hell she is" line in this cutscene. Small point, but it's there, and kinda cool XP)

 

However, my BIGGEST issues with Halo 5's story, mainly lay in the few canon breaks. The biggest one, was the Domain's presence, without any explanation. The place was destroyed in Halo: Silentium or so, due to the Halo ring's activation; but is suddenly back. I mean, it could be a fragment of the Domain, which would explain why it's shadowy, barren and generally "dead" in terms of appearance, but further explanation would've done well.

 

Another issue lays in the time. Halo 5 feels like there was a level missing in the start, because Halsey and Lasky make many references to "weeks" of time for the events taking place, and treat Cortana like she's some normal occurrence, rather than acting surprised over her sudden return.

 

Finally, my other issue lays in Palmer's sudden transition from hating Halsey, to being generally neutral to her presence, while also losing all of her sarcastic side. I would guess that was due to fan-feedback and hatred of her character, but the shift is way too sudden for her. Not that it'd have mattered, given she wasn't exactly "present" consistently.

 

I call it good, but of course, not without flaws. I never said perfect. (You didn't say I did either, but that's just to be clear)

 

To Halo 4, I should've been specific. I LOVED the character dynamic with Chief and Cortana. Was very good, and fleshed out, while it also acted as a good intro for characters like Lasky and Palmer. Chief himself was fleshed out a lot more, which is more than I could say for Halo 1-3. I remember Chief in the orig trig based on his one liners, whereas, in Halo 4, I remember him from his general attitude to Cortana's breakdowns into Rampancy. He acts human, and I love it, given years of war would break him down from a normally stoic attitude, especially when the one being in his life, of eight years, is dying. Of course, that was just a rant on my own, but those were my thoughts.

 

It's not an insult, get off your high horse.

I've only heard it in a negative connotation, over and over before. Where I come from, it is. There's no high horse present, for what I take as an insult, and you don't.

  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I really don't understand how you like 343's work so much. This will sound completely rude and judgmental, but I honestly would like to ask if H4 was your first Halo? If it is, then I'd understand, because Reach was my first MP Halo, and even though I'm aware of its objective flaws, my love for it often means I overlook or trivialise said flaws.

CE was my first.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I've never been a fan of the Halo game campaign, but I have been able to give them each one playthrough...until now.  I have no desire to finish H5.

 

I also dont feel that I should rank down from being forced to play breakout.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

There kinda was, in reference to Cortana. It's a subtle thing, but also lays in dialogue, rather than being pushed out in front of you. It's a transition from the normal attitude of "she's here and back", to the "she's been leading them around for hours" from Exuberant, which has at suspicious undertones on its own. You can also see a change in tone from the Chief over the campaign. Initially, he's almost "excited" to have her back. "Energetic" I would say. But, by the Breaking, he's turned into a rather cold, skeptical and generally cautious character, which is quite a shift, given he generally doesn't ACT like that around Cortana. How he essentially "turned" on her by the end, when asking her about the bodycount, from the Guardians' arrival, was quite a turn from his normal self.

 

On the second note, I mean, I personally never EXPECTED a big fight from Locke and Chief. I know the disappointment in it not happening from people (Due to ads and such), don't get me wrong, but it happening didn't really alter the story, nor would it have, either way, if it was drawn out, or one small cutscene. There's no way in hell he'd have gone on to kill Locke, or mortally wound him, so a small fist fight is essentially all I could see working. (To add onto this, you can also see a more "protective" side of Chief with his "Like hell she is" line in this cutscene. Small point, but it's there, and kinda cool XP)

 

However, my BIGGEST issues with Halo 5's story, mainly lay in the few canon breaks. The biggest one, was the Domain's presence, without any explanation. The place was destroyed in Halo: Silentium or so, due to the Halo ring's activation; but is suddenly back. I mean, it could be a fragment of the Domain, which would explain why it's shadowy, barren and generally "dead" in terms of appearance, but further explanation would've done well.

 

Really, this should be in the Campaign Discussion thread, so I'll be brief:

  • Allocating three missions to Blue Team was not sufficient to handle the character arcs at play.
  • There did not need to be an extensive physical fight, but Locke provided no interesting conflict or contrast to make the hunter/hunted two-player-characters dynamic work.
  • The Domain was destroyed with the firing of the Halo array is it is the Organon: Precursor technology, not fragmented I believe. Also, as far as I'm aware the Domain is a metaphysical construct, what 'appearance' would it possibly have?

Share this post


Link to post

There kinda was, in reference to Cortana. It's a subtle thing, but also lays in dialogue, rather than being pushed out in front of you. It's a transition from the normal attitude of "she's here and back", to the "she's been leading them around for hours" from Exuberant, which has at suspicious undertones on its own. You can also see a change in tone from the Chief over the campaign. Initially, he's almost "excited" to have her back. "Energetic" I would say. But, by the Breaking, he's turned into a rather cold, skeptical and generally cautious character, which is quite a shift, given he generally doesn't ACT like that around Cortana. How he essentially "turned" on her by the end, when asking her about the bodycount, from the Guardians' arrival, was quite a turn from his normal self.

I mean, they straight up tell you Cortana's activating the Guardians (which is resulting in the deaths of countless of civilians) in like the second or third cutscene. And we're not even present when Chief decides that Cortana is a threat, and must be eliminated. It just happens off-screen, which removes any sort of memorable character moment that could have transpired.

 

It's kinda like First Strike, where Fred begins with a ton of self-doubt about himself as a leader, but apparently just gets over it at some point that the reader doesn't see.

Share this post


Link to post

Uh, what? ...Have you ever experienced a story that wasn't Halo? Because the trilogy's stories are many things, but they're not really "good", and if even they are, it's CERTAINLY not because of any thing you just mentioned. Each of the trilogy's plots basically boils down to the Covenant finding another Forerunner artifact that's going to wipe out all life in the galaxy, and its up to the Chief to stop them. Flood are also there. Then, the Forerunner artifact blows up (or gets infested by Flood in the case of Halo 2, and eventually ends up glassed). The characters are hardly anything more than cardboard cut outs. Chief is your basic catch-phrase uttering action hero, Cortana's the tech support side kick, Johnson's the black guy who provides the comic relief, and Miranda Keyes is the person who tells you what to do. They are nothing outside of these roles.

 

That being said, I can at least commend Halo CE for its plot, when comparing it to the other two. The story was simply about a lone Spartan fighting off aliens and space zombies alike in his quest to stop a galaxy-killing super weapon. It wasn't anything more than that, but more importantly, it didn't try to be anything more than that.

 

Yes, I have played many story driven games.  I'm not going to go comparing to other RPG's and story driven games when that's not what Halo is, I remember playing Halo CE when it was released and was so impressed that there was a good FPS, with solid Co Op, and a really cool story, with REALLY cool music.

 

I know you can simplify the story down to the few sentences you did.  I could probably make any sci fi sound monotonous by doing that, but I still think the whole concept of the Halo rings to be fairly original, especially when looking at the finer details of the writing.  In Halo 4 you're pinned up against the generic super villain, whereas the original trilogy you're not fighting the Halo ring.  You're assassinating political leaders, siding with different species at different times, handling conflicts in more unique ways than just pressing a button. I've always thought the OG Halo story was one of the best, at least to me.

 

As for the writing, Halo CE and 3 are pretty subpar, but I think the character development and dialogue in Halo 2 is stellar. The only other FPS I'd rank similarly to Halo in terms of story, would be Bioshock.

Share this post


Link to post

 

 

As for the writing, Halo CE and 3 are pretty subpar, but I think the character development and dialogue in Halo 2 is stellar.

What character development?

 

As much people love the Arbiter, I'd like for everyone to remember that there are no points where the Arbiter deals with a great amount of internal doubt like he does in The Cole Protocol. He just switches sides after the Gravemind scoops him up. You of course can ASSUME he does, and it's just not portrayed externally, but waking up in the morning, finding snow in your yard, and coming to the conclusion that it snowed last night is not the same as actually watching the snow fall. 

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

I liked the actual gameplay of halo 5s campaign, level design allowed for you to play different ways and rewarded exploration, to bad the story was fucked.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.