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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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I agree with the premise of your post, and surely many others do, it's just that a lot of people haven't completely given up yet as there is a crucial year for adjustments to be made. It is how we use this time that is being discussed, primarily. 

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"It's really important for us to get young female talent, because they are the future."

-Bonnie Ross

 

 

How about focus on making a decent game and not so much on what genitals your employees might have.

 

Quick Poll: What is more important to your decision on purchasing Halo 5?

1.) Young Female Talent

2.) Good Gameplay

 

 

#fire343 #startwithbonnieross

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Is there something wrong with fun/competitive? Or is it really that bad because it's not like Halo 1, 2 or 3?

 

Surprised people around here don't argue against this lumping of Halo 1-3 together as if they're the same games.  I understand people use that as some way to convey this idea of a return to classic Halo when discussing newer titles, but truth be told CE is far different from the later games and should be the game 343 looks to, not Halo 2 and 3 IMO.

 

Halo 5 looks more fun than I've been having with H2, H3 and H4, so that has to count for something in my book.  Been playing Halo games since 2001 on XBC and watching where the franchise went after all these years really disappoints me.  What disappoints me most though is how most people started with Halo 2 or Halo 3, then claim CE is a broken mess without much experience but at the same time lump it in with Halo 2 and 3 when describing "true" Halo lol

 

Personally, I think Halo 5 was the game we should have received with Halo 3.  Three years of people complaining over Halo 2 but Halo 3 was the game we received, the complete opposite of what the most loyal, hardcore fans wanted when it came to gameplay design.  Halo 3 may have been really popular, but by no means was that an indication of its competitive merit, and the fact that Bungie reference CE so much before H3 released was what crushed many fans once they played it.

 

CE > all Halo games.  H5, despite sprint and some other design choices, seems to be a step in the right direction after Halo 4 and the true test will not only be when we play it during the Beta, but when we see how 343 handles the feedback if people on the whole disagree with some of their decisions.

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I agree with the premise of your post, and surely many others do, it's just that a lot of people haven't completely given up yet as there is a crucial year for adjustments to be made. It is how we use this time that is being discussed, primarily. 

 

I really hope you don't think that Halo 5: Guardians is going to have this miraculous turnaround. There's legitimately no way that this game will turn around in a fashion that we would like, and you know that. At this point it's important to let 343 know that they are making a big mistake and that they should consider a change turnaround given that it is even possible. I feel that it is too late.

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I really hope you don't think that Halo 5: Guardians is going to have this miraculous turnaround. There's legitimately no way that this game will turn around in a fashion that we would like, and you know that. At this point it's important to let 343 know that they are making a big mistake and that they should consider a massive turnaround given that it is even possible.

 

It's interesting that you speak for all of Teambeyond and you can predict the future. 

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I would be so much more excited for this game if clamber wasn't a thing and they just based movement speed on weapon held. 

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I really hope you don't think that Halo 5: Guardians is going to have this miraculous turnaround. There's legitimately no way that this game will turn around in a fashion that we would like, and you know that. At this point it's important to let 343 know that they are making a big mistake and that they should consider a massive turnaround given that it is even possible.

I don't think it'll have a miraculous turnaround but I don't think it's game over yet. 

 

I will simply be trying to make it better by providing feedback. And if nothing gets changed then well, I won't buy it, and I wasted a bit of time--but at least I tried. 

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It's interesting that you speak for all of Teambeyond and you can predict the future. 

 

I'm speaking on what I see. Do you believe that a majority of these forums are excited that Halo 5 is even farther from classic Halo? We have had two Halo titles step away from the formula and it is FACT that the general Halo population has dropped dramatically since the release of these titles. Maybe third's time the charm, but I'm going off what we can observe, and that is Halo 5 is not going to be received well.

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I think the campaign for no sprint should start only if it is revealed removing sprint is an option in-game--referring to the HCS settings, of course.

 

People keep on discussing these two options:

 

-Medium chance at making sprint more balanced, medium reward

-Very low chance at removing sprint entirely from the game, very high reward

 

I am pulling numbers out of my ass here, but I feel as if we shouldn't be going for a 1/10 chance (most likely even lower probability than that).

 

After thinking about it, a possible alternate we could do is try and push for sprint to be removable via custom games and hope it gets into the HCS settings. I feel like this is a good balance between the two because it is likely for the option to be there, considering how much flak 343 received for it not being there in Halo 4. The only drawback here is separation from the casual community, but as seen with Reach NBNS, I don't think it'll be a problem; I'd rather play a game I enjoy than have the scene slightly bigger (something we don't even know). But of course this plan assumes 343 will go ahead with removing sprint from the HCS which is obviously the biggest challenge.

Changing the settings isn't going to help the community though. The competitive community alone isn't big enough to support it. Casuals need to support the competitive scene as ell by watching the events. It already been proven that using alternate settings alienates us. I mean it's a little different with dev support now, but i'm not sure if that's enough if we are playing on different settings than the rest of the world.

 

Sc2, LoL, SF4, Dota 2, CS:GO. ALl these big competitive games don't change their settings. Everyone's playing the same game and that's an important to those games' success.

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Surprised people around here don't argue against this lumping of Halo 1-3 together as if they're the same games.  I understand people use that as some way to convey this idea of a return to classic Halo when discussing newer titles, but truth be told CE is far different from the later games and should be the game 343 looks to, not Halo 2 and 3 IMO.

 

Halo 5 looks more fun than I've been having with H2, H3 and H4, so that has to count for something in my book.  Been playing Halo games since 2001 on XBC and watching where the franchise went after all these years really disappoints me.  What disappoints me most though is how most people started with Halo 2 or Halo 3, then claim CE is a broken mess without much experience but at the same time lump it in with Halo 2 and 3 when describing "true" Halo lol

 

Personally, I think Halo 5 was the game we should have received with Halo 3.  Three years of people complaining over Halo 2 but Halo 3 was the game we received, the complete opposite of what the most loyal, hardcore fans wanted when it came to gameplay design.  Halo 3 may have been really popular, but by no means was that an indication of its competitive merit, and the fact that Bungie reference CE so much before H3 released was what crushed many fans once they played it.

 

CE > all Halo games.  H5, despite sprint and some other design choices, seems to be a step in the right direction after Halo 4 and the true test will not only be when we play it during the Beta, but when we see how 343 handles the feedback if people on the whole disagree with some of their decisions.

I'm aware all 3 of those games are different, but they are far more similar to each other than they are with H4 or Reach.

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Going back to sprint… why have it in Halo? 
 
  • As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
  • It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
  • Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
  • Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
 
/Josh

 

But what about the fact that sprint forces you to upscale your maps which messes with the integrity of other combat features and interactions? That is a very serious and real issue, albeit not an obvious one to the casual gamer. It is the real reason I beleive that sprint ruins Halo gameplay because everything else feels off when map areas are over-spaced. One way you can describe it is that it makes gameplay feel flat, and less "three dimentional".

 

Was this brought up in any of the development discussions?

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I'm speaking on what I see. Do you believe that a majority of these forums are excited that Halo 5 is even farther from classic Halo? We have had two Halo titles step away from the formula and it is FACT that the general Halo population has dropped dramatically since the release of these titles. Maybe third's time the charm, but I'm going off what we can observe, and that is Halo 5 is not going to be received well.

 

And you have a right to an opinion that should be respected. I just think the way you are wording things makes it sound like you already know the future and your opinion is fact. 

 

I'm gonna keep an open mind.

 

Sprint is not ideal sure, but who knows if that was the real and ONLY reason behind Halo's decline. There are SO many other things that made Reach and 4 bad too. 

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Changing the settings isn't going to help the community though. The competitive community alone isn't big enough to support it. Casuals need to support the competitive scene as ell by watching the events. It already been proven that using alternate settings alienates us. I mean it's a little different with dev support now, but i'm not sure if that's enough if we are playing on different settings than the rest of the world.

 

Sc2, LoL, SF4, Dota 2, CS:GO. ALl these big competitive games don't change their settings. Everyone's playing the same game and that's one of the aspects to those games' success.

Most obviously, the difference between us and those games is that they're already competitive out of the box. I want a good competitive game before caring about what casuals think. There is evidence to suggest no sprint competitive settings do just fine, while different from vanilla, in C'bus 12. There is no evidence to suggest having no sprint settings from vanilla is extremely detrimental to the scene, like you claim.

 

We will be just fine having no sprint in HCS settings with 343's developer support. We will continue to grow still. I would rather have a slightly smaller scene and have the game actually be fun than have the scene be slightly larger--something that's not even guaranteed. 

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A TL:DR would be nice

 

343 has had plenty of time to listen to us and use our feedback to make Halo better. The nature of Halo 5 makes me feel that our feedback is not important enough, and as such I will not be supporting the game.

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I just wanted to point out that immersion does not mean realism.

 

Use COD:AW for example. Nothing about that is real but you feel like you have full control of your character and thus are immersed in the experience.

 

 

Just thought I'd chime in on that when someone said "Spartans should sweat" in the immersion vs realism argument.

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I just wanted to point out that immersion does not mean realism.

 

I get that. What's important is that gameplay should be more important than either of those 2, I don't feel 343 go that route.

 

It's great what they do to support the scene with tournaments and a ranking system and all that, I appreciate that. If they only focused more on gameplay aspects and input from the hardcore fans, aka the players who will stick around for more than a month.

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I just wanted to point out that immersion does not mean realism.

 

Use COD:AW for example. Nothing about that is real but you feel like you have full control of your character and thus are immersed in the experience.

 

 

Just thought I'd chime in on that when someone said "Spartans should sweat" in the immersion vs realism argument.

 

With that argument, we were in full control in Halo CE, 2 and 3, so why change that?

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Ugh, Halo 5 looks great, kids will never be into Halo. You could give them a carbon copy of Halo 2 with spectator mode and the best graphics and they'll still all be watching PewDiePie on YouTube, they're barely even playing CoD anymore now...

 

I can take a nerfed sprint in Halo 5, I mean the game has ranks, spectator mode, e-sports support, arena gameplay etc. It sure as shit looks a lot better than Halo 4.

 

About to go play Halo 2 Anniversary. Which is definitely a failed Halo because it has grenade indicators and hit markers lol. Definitely. 

 

Quinn, Halo 5 looks great. 

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Ugh, Halo 5 looks great, kids will never be into Halo. You could give them a carbon copy of Halo 2 with spectator mode and the best graphics and they'll still all be watching PewDiePie on YouTube, they're barely even playing CoD anymore now...

 

I can take a nerfed sprint in Halo 5, I mean the game has ranks, spectator mode, e-sports support, arena gameplay etc. It sure as shit looks a lot better than Halo 4.

 

About to go play Halo 2 Anniversary. Which is definitely a failed Halo because it has grenade indicators and hit markers lol. Definitely. 

 

Quinn, Halo 5 looks great. 

 

Please don't speak for the entire community unless you are actually going to make sense

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Please don't speak for the entire community unless you are actually going to make sense

 

You're just as bad as he is, tbh.

 

So, both of you shouldn't post.

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