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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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I see everyone obsessing with population and stream numbers when it has no affect on them on their ability to appreciate the game... and I think it's weird. An example I like to bring up in a situation like this is Old School RuneScape. The game has about 20-40k concurrent players at ANY given time, almost never has Twitch viewers above 10k on average, and still, many of its top content creators a comfortable living off of it. The top OSRS streamer is in fact often in the top 5 most concurrent viewers on all of Twitch. The game doesn't even have ANY sort of serious competitive tournaments, forget over a million dollars being thrown at it, unlike Halo. Above all, people still love the game a lot and grind it for HOURS and it's still getting a lot of dev hours put into it despite the small team dedicated to it.

 

I don't understand why people are making it sound like Halo 5 is in a bad spot in the slightest. If people want to make good content, there are also people are willing to watch it. You don't have to be pro to be entertaining. In fact, not being pro and focused on winning 24/7 makes it a lot easier to interact with a chat, being entertaining or create fun content because you can use your time for different things (h0lmb0m is a great example). On the other hand, if you're willing to just be competitive, there's a ton of competitive matches and tournaments to be had. If you're willing to just be casual on the game, Warzone is still awesome for the time being, and until Forge and proper social modes roll around, it's a decent alternative (the sooner the better though). I've had a lot of fun in that, and I thought it'd suck complete ass at first. I was so wrong.

 

What's making people so concerned about the numbers here? I don't understand.

 

Why are you trying so desperately to defend a game that doesn't deserve it.  Runescape has infinitely more depth than Halo 5.  You're grasping at straws trying to defend Halo 5.  It's a fun game - I agree.  But why would people bother to play it when there barely isn't any depth, and there isn't a large playerbase.  If I wanted to play team slayer for 5 hours I would play counterstrike.  Right now the only thing Halo 5 has on any FPS is a good CTF and many would probably argue some version of Unreal is doing that better than the current iteration of Halo.  Runescape is better than A LOT of MMO's at certain things.  Halo 5 is not better than other shooters at basically ANYTHING.  

 

Your whining about the people making complaints towards Halo 5 is nauseating. 

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Why are you trying so desperately to defend a game that doesn't deserve it.  Runescape has infinitely more depth than Halo 5.  You're grasping at straws trying to defend Halo 5.  It's a fun game - I agree.  But why would people bother to play it when there barely isn't any depth, and there isn't a large playerbase.  If I wanted to play team slayer for 5 hours I would play counterstrike.  Right now the only thing Halo 5 has on any FPS is a good CTF and many would probably argue some version of Unreal is doing that better than the current iteration of Halo.  Runescape is better than A LOT of MMO's at certain things.  Halo 5 is not better than other shooters at basically ANYTHING.  

 

Your whining about the people making complaints towards Halo 5 is nauseating. 

Did you just say halo 5 has good ctf? in what world scrap caps all day long no skill involved just luck.

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I think the only time Bungie copied campaign spaces into MP maps was dureing Reach.

I'm thinking it's more like Bungie already had the MP maps, or perhaps just the designs ready to go, and ported them over to the Campaign, given the nature of these sections in the Campaign. Like, the sections that were supposedly ripped from the Campaign in order to become MP maps are obviously far more complex than anything that shows up in the rest of the Campaign, and a lot of the time, said sections are barely even used.

 

Like, when you're in the Sabre Launch Facility in Long Night of Solace, you can explore the ENTIRETY of Countdown, even though there's absolutely nothing to find or do there. Same deal with Zealot after you've boarded the Covenant ship, and later with Boardwalk in Exodus.

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thanks for the breakdown, maybe @@Sal1ent can stop by and talk about this issue now?

That would be nice, bored playing on US serves knowing that EU has some. (Yes I live on Europe)

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Why are you trying so desperately to defend a game that doesn't deserve it.  Runescape has infinitely more depth than Halo 5.  You're grasping at straws trying to defend Halo 5.  It's a fun game - I agree.  But why would people bother to play it when there barely isn't any depth, and there isn't a large playerbase.  If I wanted to play team slayer for 5 hours I would play counterstrike.  Right now the only thing Halo 5 has on any FPS is a good CTF and many would probably argue some version of Unreal is doing that better than the current iteration of Halo.  Runescape is better than A LOT of MMO's at certain things.  Halo 5 is not better than other shooters at basically ANYTHING.  

 

You're whining about the people making complaints towards Halo 5 is nauseating. 

Agreed. 

 

We're not living in the past, we just know that if 343 took the best parts of Halo and removed all the crap like sprint and thusters they would be able to make a Halo game that is far more competitive and fun. If they just expanded on Halo CE or 2, to a lesser extent, they would have a true arena style FPS on the console where the maps could be smaller and the action faster. I mean, look at Truth CTF, you can't tell me that it plays better than CTF Midship. The size of the map, the crappy spawns, sprint, being able to get top mid from anywhere, etc.

 

I can't wait to see just how slow Halo 5 slayer will play out in the tournament, I'm telling you now that it'll be some of the slowest Halo we have ever seen. Every pro will try and always have a quick thruster escape route before they engage in any battle.

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Why are you trying so desperately to defend a game that doesn't deserve it.  Runescape has infinitely more depth than Halo 5.  You're grasping at straws trying to defend Halo 5.  It's a fun game - I agree.  But why would people bother to play it when there barely isn't any depth, and there isn't a large playerbase.  If I wanted to play team slayer for 5 hours I would play counterstrike.  Right now the only thing Halo 5 has on any FPS is a good CTF and many would probably argue some version of Unreal is doing that better than the current iteration of Halo.  Runescape is better than A LOT of MMO's at certain things.  Halo 5 is not better than other shooters at basically ANYTHING.  

 

You're whining about the people making complaints towards Halo 5 is nauseating. 

When you said a game that's 99.9% RNG-based click-and-wait has "infinitely more depth" than a competitive first person shooter I lost interest in even holding this conversation. RS is a great game, has a lot of content to it, but depth is not its strong suite.

 

I will point out how ironic it is that I'm "desperate" to defend it when I can just get on, appreciate it for what it is and have fun. I'm just asking people to explain what's making them so worried.

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I see everyone obsessing with population and stream numbers when it has no affect on them on their ability to appreciate the game... and I think it's weird. An example I like to bring up in a situation like this is Old School RuneScape. The game has about 20-40k concurrent players at ANY given time, almost never has Twitch viewers above 10k on average, and still, many of its top content creators a comfortable living off of it. The top OSRS streamer is in fact often in the top 5 most concurrent viewers on all of Twitch. The game doesn't even have ANY sort of serious competitive tournaments, forget over a million dollars being thrown at it, unlike Halo. Above all, people still love the game a lot and grind it for HOURS and it's still getting a lot of dev hours put into it despite the small team dedicated to it.

 

I don't understand why people are making it sound like Halo 5 is in a bad spot in the slightest. If people want to make good content, there are also people are willing to watch it. You don't have to be pro to be entertaining. In fact, not being pro and focused on winning 24/7 makes it a lot easier to interact with a chat, being entertaining or create fun content because you can use your time for different things (h0lmb0m is a great example). On the other hand, if you're willing to just be competitive, there's a ton of competitive matches and tournaments to be had. If you're willing to just be casual on the game, Warzone is still awesome for the time being, and until Forge and proper social modes roll around, it's a decent alternative (the sooner the better though). I've had a lot of fun in that, and I thought it'd suck complete ass at first. I was so wrong.

 

What's making people so concerned about the numbers here? I don't understand.

 

Runescape isn't made by a AAA developer with millions of dollars invested in it with microtransactions.  It's honestly a joke when a game 8 years old has more content than it's current generation game.  Halo 3 shipped with forge, working theater, social and ranked playlists and more balanced gameplay out of the box. There's really no excuse for 343i.

 

Does it make you a bit biased considering you're the "#1 FFA player" in the world in Halo 5?  If I was exceptional at a certain thing, but many people didn't really like it I would defend it any way I could also.  

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Runescape isn't made by a AAA developer with millions of dollars invested in it with microtransactions.  It's honestly a joke when a game 8 years old has more content than it's current generation game.  Halo 3 shipped with forge, working theater, social and ranked playlists and more balanced gameplay out of the box. There's really no excuse for 343i.

I agree, but still don't see what has everyone obsessed with the numbers.

 

As for microtransactions, if they're being used to fund HCS for the most part, I'm not sure it's a valid argument toward the game's development. Either way it's benefiting the competitive side of the game more than not, so it's not a bad thing. At the end of the day, big prize pools attract people, and when people are interested, it results in increased viewership. Dota's always a good example of that (though I don't pretend Halo will necessarily reach the Dota TI levels of viewership, just pointing out how it can increase views and gets people talking about it vs. the regular average).

 

But there is no excuse, I'm not condoning that. 

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Halo 5 is a brand new AAA multiplayer game that barely breaks 2k Twitch viewers.That's ominous no matter how you want to doll it up. Do you think it's going to go UP from here?

to be fair, right now a lot of the people who streamed halo are streaming cod since it just came out, so no big names are streaming it, when summit was doing it the game broke 20,000 views, and that was like a week after launch.

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surprised to hear this from you, but i agree 100%.

 

I always do my best to evaluate Halo games objectively. People think I'm overly negative though because, unfortunately, there's been a whole lot to complain about over the last 10+ years.

 

I feel that 343 actually moving back towards a more skill-based, single shot starting weapon is a huge dichotomy from previous philosophies and should be recognized. I'm not saying the game is perfect by any means, but they have done some good things.

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I honestly think that new car smell will be long gone by the first quarter of next year. Destiny is grindy, but does't suck (Bungie typically listens and tries to give the community what it wants regarding Destiny) and Black Ops III isn't going anywhere soon. To that add, both of those games having plenty to offer outside matching making. Play a few games a Halo 5 and you get at lot of repetition of maps and game types (I'm most referring to Plaza and Swatnums) and that shit get old fast and there's not reason to replay campaign. I agree Halo 5 can be fun, but it just doesn't have the sticky replay ability affect on me anymore. Just my opinion.

 

Perfectly understandable. Myself, I don't understand that allure of other video games. If I game, I play Halo and that's about it. Halo simply doesn't get old for me.

 

I am curious to how 343i's Sustainment Program will work out. Could they have possibly withheld gametypes and playlists we desperately wanted because they anticipated a drop off in population to try out other new games, and are planning to release them to win back players after the new game hype for other titles is over? Who knows what they're thinking.... But I'm pretty hopeful Halo 5 will hold a healthy population for a long time. It is the funnest I've had playing Halo since the old days.

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CoD also has two consoles for its game and to advertise to. Of course it's going to have more viewers. CoD is this generations Halo in terms of popularity. Halo will never beat CoD. Even if it went back to its "roots" it's simply not happening.

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Playing and watching a stream at the same time is probably the main good point about this, but I don't think it's fair to say it has so much more content or nostalgia attached to it. People in the Halo community literally live in the past. It's not even funny.

 

The content I could agree with because Halo 5 is barebones for now, but usually, there's a shit ton of variety to Halo because of the sandbox shooter it always has been, people just don't make interesting things out of it, and that's on them.

 

What the fuck does THIS have to do with stream or population numbers? Just search random Matchmaking and send some friend requests after games, it's not that hard. People will add back to run games if you're not an asshole, because no one likes searching random compared to having a coordinated team. It becomes VERY simple as soon as you stop expecting other people to do it and become the one to ask. Don't make it sound like it's impossible to find games and then add people from there.

 

Why do you still have 100 friends anyway, did you not add a single person since Xbox 360 or something? You do realize you can add 1k people before having to start thinking about the people you add right?

Stream and population numbers are an indication of the popularity of the game. Less population = less people playing. Less people playing = less friends playing. Not rocket science.

 

Low population also creates a feedback loop where it begins to snowball. Which people fear.

 

You asked why people are worried. Thats why.

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I agree, but still don't see what has everyone obsessed with the numbers.

 

As for microtransactions, if they're being used to fund HCS for the most part, I'm not sure it's a valid argument toward the game's development. Either way it's benefiting the competitive side of the game more than not, so it's not a bad thing. At the end of the day, big prize pools attract people, and when people are interested, it results in increased viewership. Dota's always a good example of that (though I don't pretend Halo will necessarily reach the Dota TI levels of viewership, just pointing out how it can increase views and gets people talking about it vs. the regular average).

 

But there is no excuse, I'm not condoning that. 

 

Overall it's a solid game at a casual level, competitive at this point nah.

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So you guys actually think a polished updated halo ce would pull 50k viewers consistently?

 

P.S I'm not defending anyone or any game, just curious.

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I always do my best to evaluate Halo games objectively. People think I'm overly negative though because, unfortunately, there's been a whole lot to complain about over the last 10+ years.

 

I feel that 343 actually moving back towards a more skill-based, single shot starting weapon is a huge dichotomy from previous philosophies and should be recognized. I'm not saying the game is perfect by any means, but they have done some good things.

It is better that we get a single shot starting weapon but I don't like the fact that it kills too slow for the movement options we have and there are far easier to use utility weapons on the map. I mean, what if in Halo CE we started with a 4sk pistol but there were 3sk hitscan pistols laying around the map? 

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So you guys actually think a polished updated halo ce would pull 50k viewers consistently?

 

P.S I'm not defending anyone or any game, just curious.

It wouldn't be near as big as CS is on Twitch but it would be a hell of a lot closer if done right. 

 

People seem to forget just how casual friendly Halo CE was when played that way. CSGO has tons of casual players yet is one of the most competitive games to ever be played. 

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Just jumped up back on some H2A, and it felt good just to play some simple Halo. I also had to bump my sensitivity down to 3 from 5 because it felt to fast lol, shows how Halo 5's aiming is messed up

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Stream and population numbers are an indication of the popularity of the game. Less population = less people playing. Less people playing = less friends playing. Not rocket science.

 

Low population also creates a feedback loop where it begins to snowball. Which people fear.

 

You asked why people are worried. Thats why.

 

 

Also sponsors and orgs wont invest their resources and products into a game with average following.When you have 1 million people putting their time out of the day to watch a video game, it makes you think what they do with their money lol.

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http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/BigShow36/video/12651526

 

Pistol is easily the best starting weapon we've had since CE. It just is, even with the limited clip. That alone makes this game way more enjoyable for me than any recent Halo game that I can recall. Yeah, there are things that I'd love to see changed and definitely more maps and content wont hurt, but there is a lot of good potential here if we can get 343 to make a few adjustments.

 

There you go bro. Nice shots. 

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It is better that we get a single shot starting weapon but I don't like the fact that it kills too slow for the movement options we have and there are far easier to use utility weapons on the map. I mean, what if in Halo CE we started with a 4sk pistol but there were 3sk hitscan pistols laying around the map? 

It's certainly an issue (although not as dramatic a one as in your example), but the only real challenge is at longer ranges. I'm not saying it's an ideal situation, just much better than we've had in recent memory.

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It wouldn't be near as big as CS is on Twitch but it would be a hell of a lot closer if done right. 

 

People seem to forget just how casual friendly Halo CE was when played that way. CSGO has tons of casual players yet is one of the most competitive games to ever be played. 

 

Especially when you can do casual shit like this. Also where is infection in Halo 5. That is the pinnacle of casualness lol.

 

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So you guys actually think a polished updated halo ce would pull 50k viewers consistently?

 

P.S I'm not defending anyone or any game, just curious.

 

a game that plays like halo and has it's core intact? yes....hell yes...throw in forge, theater, file sharing, a rank system, party restrictions, dedicated servers and we have the ultimate GOAT.

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When you said a game that's 99.9% RNG-based click-and-wait has "infinitely more depth" than a competitive first person shooter I lost interest in even holding this conversation. RS is a great game, has a lot of content to it, but depth is not its strong suite. 

It does, straight out. Learning '"the whole game" of Halo 5, including gameplay, meta, maps, strategy, etc is a tea break compared the the massive amount of depth and knowledge needed to master RS. There is an unbelievably huge amount of shit going on in that game. Where not just comparing combat either. PVM, PVP, minigames, questing all has their own shit to understand, and a lot more to the relative gametypes of Warzone, Slayer, Obj, CTF, Campaign. With weapons alone RS has 10x more viable and used weapons, as well as multiple builds for literally every kind of combat and skilling.

It has meta pouring out of its ass.

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