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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Meh, at this point, I think we all know that no sprint is just the more popular / logical / balanced option in Halo... I don't think bringing up numbers or irrefutable points will do much to strike a back-and-forth discussion...

However, it was rather obvious from the get-go that sprint was in the game to stay, considering how long it would take to redo all the maps, including campaign missions (and retest them), it could lead to another MCC disaster.

Honestly, I was just for the most part interested in seeing what kind of points he'd bring up to defend it, and it was good post made with careful attention to detail and great balancing in mind. This one did stand out as a bit iffy: 

 

> On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge.

 

I don't think that's a good point to make because first off, you just don't want it as a defensive mechanic. You're not so much trading off shield recharge if you're being shot at while escaping with sprint, so this is a valid point taking into consideration that you're not being shot at.

This said, I think what we should shoot for with sprint at this point, is anything that prevents people from using it to escape battles and it should become the best that we'll get balance-wise. It should simply not work at all when you're being shot at and you're trying to start sprinting away. If that's how the speed build-up works, it should be good. If not, I want to reiterate that it should be 100% impossible to sprint away while taking incoming damage.

And while you're not taking active damage, it tends become a decent trade-off with the shield stall.

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1. Who is Sal1ent?

2. I disagree with most of your post.

3. Salute for the post.

Josh Holmes

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Sprint may be a viable option in a game where attempting to sprint away can bring instant death, but in Halo when you require 3-4 shots to a player with no shields it just allows players to run away when they should be dead.

 

We've seen it happen in the past 2 titles and I've already seen it happen in Halo 5 gameplay.  Sprint gives the illusion of a fast paced game where in reality it just slows it down.

 

The changes made to sprint should fix that problem though. I'm more concerned with how Sprint affects map design.

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I cant believe people are plus repping a post that said in alot of words," we want people to feel cool." If ideas for halo are bad we need to communicate that very clearly with the people we are giving feedback to.

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I cant believe people are plus repping a post that said in alot of words," we want people to feel cool." If ideas for halo are bad we need to communicate that very clearly with the people we are giving feedback to.

We are plus repping because we appreciate the post, not the points in the post. The points in the post are utter crap but now we know the reasoning (some of it) behind keeping sprint in future "Halo" games. Downvote doesn't mean disagree, it means the post adds nothing to discussion and shouldn't be there.

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I cant believe people are plus repping a post that said in alot of words," we want people to feel cool." If ideas for halo are bad we need to communicate that very clearly with the people we are giving feedback to.

 

I think more or less people are +repping for the fact that the devs are even responding. It's a nice thing for them to do, regardless of whether we agree or not.

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We are plus repping because we appreciate the post, not the points in the post. The points in the post are utter crap but now we know the reasoning (some of it) behind keeping sprint in future "Halo" games. Downvote doesn't mean disagree, it means the post adds nothing to discussion and shouldn't be there.

which expresses a distaste for an opinion clearer? Plus rep and rebuttal posts or a bunch of neg rep and rebuttal posts? Be clear so they cant say we don't  stand as one on an idea.

 

 

I think more or less people are +repping for the fact that the devs are even responding. It's a nice thing for them to do, regardless of whether we agree or not.

 

If your making a game with your community in mind this should be expected, not some suprising thing that we thank them for blessing us with their presence on the very rare occasion they do.

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Another thought about sprint that's surfaced because I'm watching the H2A tournament right now; it's more enjoyable to watch Halo without sprint. Keeping the player movement pace as a constant goes a long way to letting viewers and commentators follow the game more smoothly.

 

I think Halo 5 is doing a lot of things right, and I'm not outright opposed to the majority of the Spartan Abilities, but Sprint affects the game in such a way that any Halo game with it simply isn't as good to watch (in my opinion) than those without it. Reach would be the most visible example of how much better the game was without that one mechanic.

 

Despite adding more layers to the player's tool set and up front complexity there is still yet to be a Halo game (and I don't see H5G breaking this trend) that has the actual complexity of the original in practice. I would strongly like to see the focus be on recapturing that before adding on additional mechanics for the sake of theatrical smoke and mirrors. 

An example of doing just that would be the system for spawning power weapons in H5 - it looks like someone took the original system but made it clearer to players what's going on which is excellent. More of that, and less of things like sprint and clamber please!

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Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building... When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently.

 

/Josh

 

 

Notice this guys? Same was said by Bonnie Ross a while back - Arena is only a small part of what H5 multiplayer has to offer. The beta will be Arena only but the final game is going to have some kind of Frankenstein shit in it. I wouldn't rule out perks and leveling and custom loadouts.

 

And that's all any of the casuals and noobs are going to play, and it will be a watered-down CoD/Titanfall/BF mess and ruin Halo forever.

 

Just like no one played anything but BTB in Halo 4 so it didn't matter what positive changes "Throwdown" or "Legendary Slayer" had done to them.

 

 

When we say we want CORE HALO to feel like CORE HALO we mean the main playlists, not some Arena section that most gamers will ignore. I have zero hope for Halo 5, will be the first one I don't purchase.

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I can understand the immersion argument, but I don't think its true in practice. While it is theoretically more immersive for a spartan to be able to sprint, I don't feel more immersed when actually sprinting. For me, needing to press down another button to go faster, (versus simply pushing up on the thumbstick) makes movement feel clunky and unnatural. I would greatly prefer it if there was a "sprint-like" animation when moving forwards, while retaining the ability to shoot/strafe.

 

Of course, my argument is purely subjective, but at the end of the day, thats what immersion is. Its a feeling. 

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Notice this guys? Same was said by Bonnie Ross a while back - Arena is only a small part of what H5 multiplayer has to offer. The beta will be Arena only but the final game is going to have some kind of Frankenstein shit in it. I wouldn't rule out perks and leveling and custom loadouts.

 

And that's all any of the casuals and noobs are going to play, and it will be a watered-down CoD/Titanfall/BF mess and ruin Halo forever.

 

Just like no one played anything but BTB in Halo 4 so it didn't matter what positive changes "Throwdown" or "Legendary Slayer" had done to them.

 

 

When we say we want CORE HALO to feel like CORE HALO we mean the main playlists, not some Arena section that most gamers will ignore. I have zero hope for Halo 5, will be the first one I don't purchase.

 

I think you're reading into it too much.  Yes there might be new gametypes, but his main point was he wants the Transition from Campaign to Arena to BTB (which has always been present) to feel natural.

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@@Sal1ent

 

What do you think about some of the tweaks/suggestions that have been offered? Particularly the ones that are relatively easy to change and that would make a huge impact.

 

CE melee system, I may sound nostalgic when I say this but keep in mind I wasn't even there for CE MP and I'm fairly harsh on older halo games.

 

You have sprint, thruster, Spartan charge, and ground pound, all of these abilities would play well with a melee system based on momentum.

 

Ground pound would change depending on distance which would mean that if you were to ground pound off a skyscraper and hit someone it would do far more damage and have a larger radius than if you were to jump off a 2 story building, this would reward players for better timing because managing to hit someone from farther away would reward you with a more powerful ground pound.

 

sprinting would be better because if you were to let's say sprint into someone who was just strafing towards you you would have the upper hand, perhaps even increase melee distance for when sprinting that way if timed right you could destroy someone who made a bad play.

 

Thrusting/melee and Spartan charge are obvious, you would do more damage with these than just meleeing someone, again rewarding people who know how to use these abilities right.

 

Oh and being able to shoot while thrusting is another highly recommended change, not only would it be great for montages/tournaments, but it would generally mean that thrusters would have a more offensive element to them, basically making it at par with strafe.

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Notice this guys? Same was said by Bonnie Ross a while back - Arena is only a small part of what H5 multiplayer has to offer. The beta will be Arena only but the final game is going to have some kind of Frankenstein shit in it. I wouldn't rule out perks and leveling and custom loadouts.

 

And that's all any of the casuals and noobs are going to play, and it will be a watered-down CoD/Titanfall/BF mess and ruin Halo forever.

 

 

Yet you ignored in their statement that they want to keep things consistent between different gamemodes & campaign.. How would loudouts & perks keep things consistent ? They could all that we know mean by arena, just the basement of Halo 5 MP, meaning 4v4 small & medium maps. And bigger MP features could be just BTB, Invasion etc with arena style gameplay in them.

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I don't think that's a good point to make because first off, you just don't want it as a defensive mechanic. You're not so much trading off shield recharge if you're being shot at while escaping with sprint, so this is a valid point taking into consideration that you're not being shot at.

This said, I think what we should shoot for with sprint at this point, is anything that prevents people from using it to escape battles and it should become the best that we'll get balance-wise. It should simply not work at all when you're being shot at and you're trying to start sprinting away. If that's how the speed build-up works, it should be good. If not, I want to reiterate that it should be 100% impossible to sprint away while taking incoming damage.

That's how it does work, as per the tweets.

 

https://twitter.com/JoshingtonState/status/543580030492606464

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Josh Holmes had no obligation whatsoever to give us an explanation, he is an authoritative figure and as such his word is law, don't get me wrong I appreciate his response but don't pretend he ever had to say anything to begin with.

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I was already pretty hype for the beta, but after reading Josh Holmes' post, I have no idea I'm going to be able to handle the wait for it.

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I think you're reading into it too much.  Yes there might be new gametypes, but his main point was he wants the Transition from Campaign to Arena to BTB (which has always been present) to feel natural.

 

Perhaps, but in my defense every pessimistic thought anyone has about a coming Halo game has proven to be completely justified by the actual game that was delivered.

 

I think it's going beyond new gametypes.

 

 

 

"The beta focuses on arena, later this fall we'll talk about our full offering."

-Bonnie Ross

 

"So we want to make sure that since we're on a new platform, we're pushing it in interesting ways... Halo is different to different people.  Multiplayer guys don't agree with each other on anything, period."

-Frank O'Connor

 

"I know our audience is changing... trying to figure out the best way to cater to them"

-Frank O'Connor

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