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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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And your proposition is...?

 

Let it be pointedly recognized that I started this discussion by suggesting a way to get 343 to make better maps, and all anyone has done so far is say "Lemon you don't know how things really work" without providing one single idea to supplant mine. 

 

So why doesn't everyone shut the fuck up until they have a better idea?

I already stated 343 should make more (>20) simpler maps rather than 8 highly refined, and often over designed.  The community would determine which maps are the best once the game goes live.  I didn't propose any sort of cut-throat management that hinders the creative process like yourself.  Rather a change of map design philosophy.  Quantity and simplicity over fewer highly refined maps. If we had more quantity, bad maps could be tweaked in forge for the better.

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Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Is that why Halo 4 maps were the best shit we've ever seen?

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So basically we should just accept mediocre settings and not even try? That's dumb. Hell, we don't even need to get rid of sprint. We could increase base speed and make sprint only a 5% increase. The masses would still have sprint and would be too brainless to even notice how useless it is.

343i is being funded by MS (I think) to make a 1 mil tournament that top players are competing for. You can bet 343i and MS are going to want as close to possible Vanilla settings for their tournament that is basically advertisement for their game to show how the game is to the masses on twitch. Not to mention even devs like Quinn are super adamant about competitive settings being the exact same if not really close to vanilla settings. 

 

They'll ban things that need a serious ban that is problematic to players and whatnot but that's basically it. Which I'm fine with, don't want some annoying settings war we always have, I just want to play the game I have. Game seems alright to me so far.

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Is that why Halo 4 maps were the best shit we've ever seen?

Maybe what happened to Halo 4 is why there will be more effort in Halo 5 longevity.

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I already stated 343 should make more (>20) simpler maps rather than 8 highly refined, and often over designed.  The community would determine which maps are the best once the game goes live.  I didn't propose any sort of cut-throat management that hinders the creative process like yourself.  Rather a change of map design philosophy.  Quantity and simplicity over fewer highly refined maps. If we had more quantity, bad maps could be tweaked in forge for the better.

 

But your idea is still just leaving it up to them to figure it out at their own leisure, which is exactly what got us where we are. They did what they think is best for whatever their vision is, and we see the result. 

 

If they were prone to listening to our advice, we wouldn't be sitting here biting our nails hoping that Halo 5 saves the franchise. 

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Maybe what happened to Halo 4 is why there will be more effort in Halo 5 longevity.

 

 

More likely that what happened with Halo 4 is evidence that 343i doesn't have the talent or understanding to produce a good game with solid fundamental, core mechanics or consistent, coherent maps.

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But your idea is still just leaving it up to them to figure it out at their own leisure, which is exactly what got us where we are. They did what they think is best for whatever their vision is, and we see the result. 

 

If they were prone to listening to our advice, we wouldn't be sitting here biting our nails hoping that Halo 5 saves the franchise. 

We'd all be arguing over what our own particular ideas of a good Halo game are.

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H5 maps are decent. May not be the best but better than the last 2 halos.

 

Sprint is nerfed so its not that big of a issue now. Thruster May need to be turned down a little bit.

 

Pistol needs atleast 15 per mag. Too many reloads mid fights.

 

Overall I think we finally have a decent game and should be a fun year.

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We'd all be arguing over what our own particular ideas of a good Halo game are.

 

I think most people on this board would agree that sprint is half the problem with the maps. We could work from there and we'd already have fixed a mess of problems that 343 won't.

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More likely that what happened with Halo 4 is evidence that 343i doesn't have the talent or understanding to produce a good game with solid fundamental, core mechanics or consistent, coherent maps.

None of that changes that there will be a clearly stronger effort towards longevity with Halo 5.

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343i is being funded by MS (I think) to make a 1 mil tournament that top players are competing for. You can bet 343i and MS are going to want as close to possible Vanilla settings for their tournament that is basically advertisement for their game to show how the game is to the masses on twitch. Not to mention even devs like Quinn are super adamant about competitive settings being the exact same if not really close to vanilla settings. 

 

They'll ban things that need a serious ban that is problematic to players and whatnot but that's basically it. Which I'm fine with, don't want some annoying settings war we always have, I just want to play the game I have. Game seems alright to me so far.

 

Literally nobody has ever thought "Man, if sprint isn't in this game, I'm not buying!" Like I said though, we don't even need to get rid of sprint to make HCS a better experience. We have a sprint slider. Why would 343 provide us with a sprint slider when all they had to do was give us the option of "Sprint: ON/OFF"? We also have thruster options. The competitive community would be insane to not take advantage and try to push for tweaks.

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H5 maps are decent. May not be the best but better than the last 2 halos.

 

Sprint is nerfed so its not that big of a issue now. Thruster May need to be turned down a little bit.

 

Pistol needs atleast 15 per mag. Too many reloads mid fights.

 

Overall I think we finally have a decent game and should be a fun year.

 

 

What pisses me off about this game is -- as far as I know -- they have given us the customization tools and settings sliders to turn this into a truly great competitive game.

 

But I can already guarantee we will have to fight tooth and nail to make even the most MINOR, OBVIOUS changes to competitive settings. And at the end of the day, this game will never be (competitively) the game that it could be. I can already see the unrealized potential and it pisses me off more than just having an outright, irreparably shitty game like H4.

 

 

As always, I will be more than happy to eat my words if I am wrong here. 

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What pisses me off about this game is -- as far as I know -- they have given us the customization tools and settings sliders to turn this into a truly great competitive game.

 

But I can already guarantee we will have to fight tooth and nail to make even the most MINOR, OBVIOUS changes to competitive settings. And at the end of the day, this game will never be (competitively) the game that it could be. I can already see the unrealized potential and it pisses me off more than just having an outright, irreparably shitty game like H4.

 

 

As always, I will be more than happy to eat my words if I am wrong here.

I actually agree with your sentiment on lost potential, although my opinion is more about the current direction halo is moving in, less so about the gameplay present in h5.

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Longevity was planned for Halo 4.

 

Remember Spartan Ops? 

Nobody plans for their game not to be popular for a long time, but Halo 4 was an eye opener, there is no doubt about it. That's the important thing. You can plan for success, and then learn from subsequent failures.

 

The Raiders planned for Jamarcus Russell to be a franchise QB. He was the biggest bust in NFL history, the NFL changed rookie contracts, and now the Raiders have a new QB that they were more careful with. People/Teams/Companies tend to learn from their lowest moments. 2013 was the low for Halo.

 

I have confidence that the 343 sustain model for Halo 5 will keep the game popular. However, some of us that pay attention to the game aren't very happy about how they're going about it.

 

Regardless, point is, 343 will put more effort into sustaining the game, part of that will be map packs.

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Nobody plans for their game not to be popular for a long time, but Halo 4 was an eye opener, there is no doubt about it. That's the important thing. You can plan for success, and then learn from subsequent failures.

 

The Raiders planned for Jamarcus Russell to be a franchise QB. He was the biggest bust in NFL history, the NFL changed rookie contracts, and now the Raiders have a new QB that they were more careful with. People/Teams/Companies tend to learn from their lowest moments. 2013 was the low for Halo.

 

I have confidence that the 343 sustain model for Halo 5 will keep the game popular. However, some of us that pay attention to the game aren't very happy about how they're going about it.

 

Regardless, point is, 343 will put more effort into sustaining the game, part of that will me map packs.

 

Let's try not to give a group credit for a sustainability plan that literally involves reintroducing staple features of the game franchise back into the game however many weeks/months after launch. 

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But your idea is still just leaving it up to them to figure it out at their own leisure, which is exactly what got us where we are. They did what they think is best for whatever their vision is, and we see the result. 

 

If they were prone to listening to our advice, we wouldn't be sitting here biting our nails hoping that Halo 5 saves the franchise. 

But we would have more arena maps that aren't over-designed .  This is immediately better than the situation we are in now.  Even if we couldn't fix them, and change the matchmaking map pool, it would not feel like you are playing the same maps over and over.  This is important for longevity. 

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I wish these pros would actually use their Twitch streams to analyze games and talk honest about them instead of talking to the damn ******* in the chat.

 

And hijacking the entire feed and playing some shit 90s rap song when someone subscribes. I get it, you're grateful, but jesus fuckballs.

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Let's try not to give a group credit for a sustainability plan that literally involves reintroducing staple features of the game franchise back into the game however many weeks/months after launch.

I'm not commending them or anything, I'm saying there will be effort. It's not just about the removal of gametypes or Forge. Like I said I'm not a fan of how they're going about it. But they are certainly taking steps to make the game last. They aren't dumb, and they are probably under a lot of pressure from the higher ups to put up a lasting product.

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H5 maps are decent. May not be the best but better than the last 2 halos.

 

 

Pegasus

Orion

Coliseum

Eden

Empire

Fathom

Plaza

Regret

The Rig

Truth

 

Orion and Pegasus are forge maps with very little design and color/texture.

 

So we now have 8 maps that aren't forged.

 

Coliseum is a map basically made in forge with very little texture as well and based on that, I will include that as a forge map.

 

So now we have 7 maps that aren't forged.

 

2 of the maps, Eden and Regret are remakes.

 

So now we have 5 unique maps that aren't forged or remakes.

 

Empire

Fathom

Truth

Plaza

The Rig

 

We have 5 unique maps at launch, and only 2 objective gametypes on those 5 maps plus slayer.

 

Empire, Plaza, and the Rig are the most generic city maps I've ever seen. No distinguishable areas, no power areas to control, and ledges, boxes, spheres, staircases, windows, and small tight areas EVERYWHERE.

 

So in my opinion, Truth and Fathom are thr only real Halo maps launching with the game. And to top it off, truth is a midship remake of a past halo game.

 

So IMO, Fathom is the only real unique Halo map 343 has made for Halo 5 on their own.

 

I know there are 10 different maps, but when you take out the forge maps and the remakes and the absolutely horrible cityscape maps, there isn't much in terms of old Halo style maps that are unique and open.

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But we would have more arena maps that aren't over-designed .  This is immediately better than the situation we are in now.  Even if we couldn't fix them, and change the matchmaking map pool, it would not feel like you are playing the same maps over and over.  This is important for longevity. 

 

The problem here is that even if you took out all the frilly stuff from maps like Abandon, Adrift, etc. the underlying structure and sense of space of the maps is still piss-poor. Now if you're saying that they should basically just keep throwing darts at the wall and hope for a happy accident, then...I gueeeessssss...

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Coliseum is a map basically made in forge with very little texture as well and based on that, I will include that as a forge map.

 

This is a bit of a stretch.

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