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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Lemon, the video game biz is an entirely different industry from anything else.

 

I don't know if you remember my podcast where we talked about Kaos Studios...I used to talk to one of the designers and became good online friends with him...he gave me some really great insight on what goes on inside studios. There's a lot of politics involved...and the real truth about community input is basically they will say whatever to make us happy and believe...so long as it might produce a sold copy of their game.

 

Well if we operate on this premise that game studios are an Old Boys Club built on shady business, I guess that's a whole other ball game isn't it?

 

The thing is, making a game isn't a sport.  It's a creative endeavour.  You want your designers to enjoy themselves so they can produce to the best of their ability, not be constantly worried they'll lose their income.

You're telling me that the video game industry - ESPECIALLY the AAA tier - is not a competitive arena?

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Well if we operate on this premise that game studios are an Old Boys Club built on shady business, I guess that's a whole other ball game isn't it?

 

 

You're telling me that the video game industry - ESPECIALLY the AAA tier - is not a competitive arena?

I'm saying game design is a creative process.  That does not exclude it from being something competitive.  But simply you have to manage creative people differently to sports professionals who kick balls.

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Ok you guys blew this up way too much.

 

Simply put, the maps in Halo 5 are garbage as it is. The fact that DLC is free might lead some of us to believe 343 might not try as hard if they can't make money on them, but we aren't for sure.

 

The reason we believe this is because all 343 has done in 5 years is make Halo 4 and MCC, and to some of us that simply means 343 hasnt made a single good Halo game yet.

 

There is 8 arena maps. 2 are forge. So now there are 6 unique arena maps. 2 of the 6 that remain are remixes. So there are now 4 unique maps. Coliseum is basically made in forge and isn't unique in the slightest. We now have 3 unique arena maps being played with only 2 objective gametypes on launch.

 

Free DLC is a little bit concerning when you look at how bad are options already are. If they suck this bad already, we kind of expect DLC to be the same way as well.

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There is 8 arena maps. 2 are forge. So now there are 6 unique arena maps. 2 of the 6 that remain are remixes. So there are now 4 unique maps. Coliseum is basically made in forge and isn't unique in the slightest. We now have 3 unique arena maps being played with only 2 objective gametypes on launch.

 

Yep in the end, we need more unique maps.  I don't think forge will produce the quality people are after.  It's basically lego, but I'd like to be proven wrong.

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Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

Because they want people to continue playing their game

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

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If there was a perfect time to push for superior H5 settings, it would be now. HCS settings aren't completely set in stone and they're open to tweaks/changes. We have a 10x better version of the game at our fingertips and we should take advantage of it.

As nice as that would be, you have to think realistic. HCS is not MLG, I doubt the settings can be changed that easily. It's pretty much run my MS and 343 right? It's unfortunate but what we get is what we are going to get. 

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19,001 members :flames:  :weback:

 

If we could consistently get all those members to watch every tournament, PLUS casual views...we'd be in a very good spot:) 

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It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

 

 

 You're telling me that the video game industry - ESPECIALLY the AAA tier - is not a competitive arena?

 

 

:prayers:

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:prayers:

The issue of the arena maps actually being functionally sound, and the issue of appealing to the sweet tooth of the casual masses, are very separate matters. That's why 343 created Warzone.

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It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

It's been proven to them over and over that people buy Halo regardless of the arena quality

Yes, because who would want to make even more money?

 

The point is not about day 1 sales (although I'd argue the idea of free DLC could actually help them), its about people continuing to want to invest money in the game months or years down the road. Being able to boot up the game in 10 months and know you can go into any playlist due to owning every map is a comforting and welcoming notion. I remember throwing on Gears 3 a while back and you're literally locked out of every playlist bar 1 or 2 if you only have the standard maps, its a joke.

 

The longer you sustain the community, the longer they will be around to purchase Req packs and whatever else they decide to release (skins etc.). I don't see whats so hard to grasp.

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Hey guys, don't have time to search around for Walshy's opinions, but seeing as he's been streaming today...has he commented on the game at all?

343 hires walshy to commentate their events and probably pays pretty good money. If walshy had a negative opinion on Halo 5, you wouldn't hear him say it.

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The issue of the arena maps actually being functionally sound, and the issue of appealing to the sweet tooth of the casual masses, are very separate matters. That's why 343 created Warzone.

 

Feel free to bring the overall industry into the argument as you please then.  You use it to prove your point that people will buy Halo no matter what.  You also try to use it as a point as to why map developers should be making better/more maps.  This is a bad way to argue.  Even if the matter was separate.

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Yes, because who would want to make even more money?

 

The point is not about day 1 sales (although I'd argue the idea of free DLC could actually help them), its about people continuing to want to invest money in the game months or years down the road. Being able to boot up the game in 10 months and know you can go into any playlist due to owning every map is a comforting and welcoming notion. I remember throwing on Gears 3 a while back and you're literally locked out of every playlist bar 1 or 2 if you only have the standard maps, its a joke.

 

The longer you sustain the community, the longer they will be around to purchase Req packs and whatever else they decide to release (skins etc.). I don't see whats so hard to grasp.

Tell me how it shows that the arena experience is 343's target audience for "sensible sustain" when they cut arena features so that Warzone and Breakout can be the first things shoved into peoples' faces when they get the game.

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What's this about Coliseum being "made in forge"? I need some filling in D: 

He's saying the map looks really barebonesish which I can sort of agree with. Was sort of surprised myself when I first saw it

 

But not counting remix's in a gameplay sense makes no sense. Regret and Truth play way differently and Eden and Empire play completely like different maps with different weapon sets. 

 

I personally don't care if the maps look really same (Truth and Plaza are the big different looking maps which I'm fine with). Art style hasn't been 343is forte but Plaza looks soooooo good, same with Regret but that's not in Arena. I don't really mind much on art style, I'm more curious with how the map plays and so far Eden, Plaza, Rig, Fathom and Truth all play solid from what I'm seeing (haven't seen the rest really). 

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Feel free to bring the overall industry into the argument as you please then.  You use it to prove your point that people will buy Halo no matter what.  You also try to use it as a point as to why map developers should be making better/more maps.  This is a bad way to argue.  Even if the matter was separate.

Actually he was the one who said he doesn't think Breakout should be in HCS as it gets stale. 

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Feel free to bring the overall industry into the argument as you please then.  You use it to prove your point that people will buy Halo no matter what.  You also try to use it as a point as to why map developers should be making better/more maps.  This is a bad way to argue.  Even if the matter was separate.

My argument that they should make better maps is based around the idea that they should make better maps. I'm well aware that the competitive scene is not their priority, regardless of what they actually say. 

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My argument that they should make better maps is based around the idea that they should make better maps. I'm well aware that the competitive scene is not their priority, regardless of what they actually say. 

 

And I agree that the maps should be better.  But we disagree around the process to make this happen.

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I personally don't care if the maps look really same (Truth and Plaza are the big different looking maps which I'm fine with). Art style hasn't been 343is forte but Plaza looks soooooo good, same with Regret but that's not in Arena. I don't really mind much on art style, I'm more curious with how the map plays and so far Eden, Plaza, Rig, Fathom and Truth all play solid from what I'm seeing (haven't seen the rest really). 

I am fine with all the maps except plaza, and it's only the colour scheme that bugs me.  Even though I love my self a dank colour scheme, Plaza's green tint it kind of ugly imo.  

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And I agree that the maps should be better.  But we disagree around the process to make this happen.

 

And your proposition is...?

 

Let it be pointedly recognized that I started this discussion by suggesting a way to get 343 to make better maps, and all anyone has done so far is say "Lemon you don't know how things really work" without providing one single idea to supplant mine. 

 

So why doesn't everyone shut the fuck up until they have a better idea?

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As nice as that would be, you have to think realistic. HCS is not MLG, I doubt the settings can be changed that easily. It's pretty much run my MS and 343 right? It's unfortunate but what we get is what we are going to get. 

 

So basically we should just accept mediocre settings and not even try? That's dumb. Hell, we don't even need to get rid of sprint. We could increase base speed and make sprint only a 5% increase. The masses would still have sprint and would be too brainless to even notice how useless it is.

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Can there be a Cursed Lemon official arguments thread?

No, we have to put all arguments in the same place so we don't split the community. Casual lurkers won't know where to look.

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No, we have to put all arguments in the same place so we don't split the community. Casual lurkers won't know where to look.

 

Plus Josh Holmes and Frankie don't post in any other threads. 

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