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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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i hope they fix the respawns with team arena slayer FFA etc i know it might be a miner/small thing lets be real here we all usually hate it when someone spawn traps like a pleb

Spawn traps>>> split spawns
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I would be so happy if tey wouldnt reset the rank in all playlists. I mean... Is there really a point to reset Big Team or SWAT ranks every month?

 

If they would reset the HCS ranks and leave the Team Slayer ranks for example, I think that would make everyone happy. No?

 

And seasons definitly need to take longer.

The article said "You get a fresh start each month to try to prove yourself in select Seasonal Arena playlists."

 

That wording sounds to me like only certain playlists will be reset each month. I'm not sure if i'm right, but that's my guess. 

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So 343... TLDR: We need more social/unranked playlists. 

 

TL;DR for TL;DR: We need only one ranked playlist.

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u sound bootystung. My point still stands: Canon refers to whatever the original author(s) produce, unless noted otherwise.

 

343i are not the original authors of the Halo history. Their works are noncanon.

 

 

 

 

Don't play matchmaking if you know your connection sucks.You'll ruin it for all.

where are you actually getting this definition from?
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I think the only person on this forum who has a legit shot to get champion is @@Vetoed. This guy knows how to play smart.

I agree but it also depends upon how the rest of his team can perform as it is a W/L skill system.

The real question is if I can maintain champion in both Team Arena and FFA at the same time  :goat:

 

 

Semantics.

 

We agree. Just word the problem differently.

If people understand that the AR is OP, they'll think it's what needs to be nerfed. In reality, the pistol just has a bad kill potential compared to everything else. A pistol buff (5sk -> 4sk) is the simple way to go to promote individual skill. 3 Perfect Kills in a single clip for people with amazing aim. The AR can stay exactly how it is. The BR will still be viable with its burst fire, higher RRR and bullet magnetism.

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TL;DR for TL;DR: We need only one ranked playlist.

because that worked so well in Reach...

 

Even if the arena in reach had used ZBNS MLG settings it would have become irrelevant. 1 playlist just isn't enough to make it feel important to the masses. It becomes an afterthought.

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u sound bootystung. My point still stands: Canon refers to whatever the original author(s) produce, unless noted otherwise. 

 

343i are not the original authors of the Halo history. Their works are noncanon. 

It must hurt to be able to recognize all the different Halo universes Microsoft has delivered since 2001. So many books, comic novels, movie series and audio series. Especially when they seems to follow and evolve the same story since day one. I fell with you man.

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Even if the pistol gets a buff, it needs a better reticle so you can see what you're shooting at longer ranges.

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It must hurt to be able to recognize all the different Halo universes Microsoft has delivered since 2001. So many books, comic novels, movie series and audio series. Especially when they seems to follow and evolve the same story since day one. I fell with you man.

 

{clutches chest}

 

h-how will i live?

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because that worked so well in Reach...

 

Even if the arena in reach had used ZBNS MLG settings it would have become irrelevant. 1 playlist just isn't enough to make it feel important to the masses. It becomes an afterthought.

 

Because the system and settings in Reach were so amazing...

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I'm going for champion in Breakout cuz I'm a scrub

That's where I'll take my noob friends.

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The real question is if I can maintain champion in both Team Arena and FFA at the same time  :goat:

 

 
 

If people understand that the AR is OP, they'll think it's what needs to be nerfed. In reality, the pistol just has a bad kill potential compared to everything else. A pistol buff (5sk -> 4sk) is the simple way to go to promote individual skill. 3 Perfect Kills in a single clip for people with amazing aim. The AR can stay exactly how it is. The BR will still be viable with its burst fire, higher RRR and bullet magnetism.

I know...

 

You're not even replying to what I said. You're replying to batchford's dumbass interpretation of things I said a month ago.

 

I know the issue is the pistol. One of the side effects of the weak pistol is OP auto weapons in comparison to the pistol.

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{clutches chest}

 

h-how will i live?

Dont worry, i am sure there is an alternative universe where Bungie never left Microsoft, Nylund did all the books and you are the loremaster on waypoint instead of Grim.

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I wonder how many default MM warriors are going to return for H5.

 

The only interesting thing about HCS using default settings is that it forces everyone into the same playlist. It was kind of dumb in H3 and Reach where people were split between the MLG list and the default lists.

 

I remember when H3 launched and there was no MLG list. It wasn't really the pros dominating MM. It was the online warriors. It'l be interesting to see how things shake down in the champions bracket.

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Dont worry, i am sure there is an alternative universe where Bungie never left Microsoft, Nylund did all the books and you are the loremaster on waypoint instead of Grim.

 

that makes me feel better

 

now whisper you love me in my ears

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Because the system and settings in Reach were so amazing...

that's why I said even if it used ZBNS.

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that makes me feel better

 

now whisper you love me in my ears

Maybe in alternative universe.

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I wonder how many default MM warriors are going to return for H5.

 

The only interesting thing about HCS using default settings is that it forces everyone into the same playlist. It was kind of dumb in H3 and Reach where people were split between the MLG list and the default lists.

 

I remember when H3 launched and there was no MLG list. It wasn't really the pros dominating MM. It was the online warriors. It'l be interesting to see how things shake down in the champions bracket.

Unless you mean the very very beginning before MLG settings existed at all then it was probably because they were running customs. I miss the days of people getting on and not actually playing MM at all and instead running customs with your friend's list all day

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Let's look at halo 3 again. Every ranked playlist is dead except when you are above rank 40. This forces people to play social. Also there are many people who just play social b/c they feel more comfortable with it. If every1 in the social playlist were suddenly forced to play ranked, all the rank brackets would be popular again. yeah 343 could just change to ranked only 2 years after release but I think they have another thing in their mind

 

 

 

Halo 3 population from 2007 to 2009 = 400,000+ consistently. The day before Reach launched, it still managed to pull 200,000 players. 

 

The thought that Halo 3's ranked populations were dead before rank 40 is nonsense. Those 25 accounts loaded on my 360 where I ranked peoples accounts from 1-50 beg to differ. 

 

Point being, Halo 3's matchmaking formula worked. Deviations from that formula have resulted in matchmaking populations a fraction of the size of H3. That is a fact.

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that's why I said even if it used ZBNS.

 

Well we'll never know because they never tried it.

 

I think it would have improved by miles, even with a shitty Division system.

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It will take a while for me to get back into Halo (and console gaming in general) but I'm pretty confident I could get Champion at some stage. Had a 50 in TS and 48 in MLG back in H3, and was regularly playing with + against pros at that stage with varying outcomes (beat Elamite, got thrashed by Naded etc. etc.). Also stacked up well in customs

 

Looking forward to getting back to it

yo you're grabbing an xb1? Sweet I remember fucking around with you and Mountain on BF3 a ton lol.

 

And word I don't think it'll be too hard to catch up. Gl breh

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Long post inbound. It's worth the read. Boredom and rambling, I don't like people knowing that I'm secretly a keyboard warrior :prayers:

 

Alright, I'm going to make this argument one last time, because I fee like a lot of people, both fans and/or 343, are completely misinterpreting the way Halo 5's ranking system and playlists should be formatted. I was talking with some people on Beyond Staff earlier today about what I think about the Ranking system, and after I said my piece a lot of them agreed that the current format pales in comparison to the potential of what it could be

 

I've talked over Twitter with Joshua Menke, who as you all know designed most of Halo 5's CSR system, and I truly believe he did an awesome job. The CSR system itself is amazing, it rewards players for winning games, and punishes them for losing them, as should be the goal for any competitive game. The placement system helps insert people into the right skill tier, and it does a fairly decent job at that. It is vastly superior to any of Halo's ranking systems in the past for more than a handful of reasons, but that's not what I'm talking about here.

 

@@Deez, @@Sal1ent, and everyone at 343... you are applying CSR in the worst way possible, in my opinion. I mean no disrespect but I feel let down when I see all the amazing things you've implemented into Halo 5 that draw inspiration from other games, yet CSR is taking a different approach from the successful norms. I mean no disrespect, I'm immensely happy with a lot of things in Halo 5:

  • REQ Packs and XP reward players with customization and new toys, akin to Advanced Warfare and CS:GO
  • Warzone draws inspiration from Classic Halo BTB, MOBAs, and Battlefield
  • and much more...

But then we look at CSR, and it's an entirely different story. Popular games like League of Legends and Call of Duty ease majority of gamers in with standard Social matchmaking (sometimes with background skill matching, a good thing) and then have a singular, streamlined, ranked component where people go to test their skills. These ranked sections carry a very strong weight, such as the Challenger Division in League, or rewards for Grand-Masters in Call of Duty. Other games follow this trend as well, such as StarCraft 2, DOTA 2, and more.

 

The kicker with Halo 5 is that every Arena playlist will be ranked.

 

This is the problem with Halo 5's CSR system. From this design choice, two issues arise. The first one can be debated, and isn't as large of an issue, but the second is a detriment to making Halo 5 noteworthy in the ecosystem of competitive games. Bear with me and try to hear out why I believe these issues exist, especially the second one.

  • There is no Casual Arena Experience - Every playlist has a Rank, so how am I supposed to warm up for gameplay? What if I'm not in the mood to stress out about my Rank but still want to play my favorite gametype? What if my favorite playlist is Team Slayer and I have a Pro rank, but my 6 year old cousin wants to play and I don't want to make a smurf just to let him play, I'm not going to want him to play and drop my rank. What if I want to play with someone over Xbox Live who is two Divisions below me... this might yield a game where the teams might be unbalanced or extend the search time if the playlists population is too low.

     

    You could argue 'just make a smurf account for casual play' or 'just ignore the Rank' but it isn't that simple. Sometimes people will want to play their favorite modes without the stress of a rank, and switching between accounts just to play a video game casually is extremely tedious.

     

    Other than a rotational social playlist of whacky game types there is no way to play Halo 5 socially outside of Warzone. This is not a good thing, and it leads into my next point.

     

  • The Value and Image of CSRThis part frustrates me beyond belief. Think about any conversation had in other games regarding a players skill level. When two League of Legends players meet one of the first questions that is always asked: "What division?" If one person answers Bronze 3 you know that conversation is going to end really quickly. On the other end of the spectrum, if one guy responds with Diamond 1 the conversation is swayed into a very in depth conversation about the game.

     

    The ranks matter.

    Why? Because there is only one.

     

    Ironically, when you create an amazing League Ranking system, you want to apply it in the most broad and simple way possible. Call of Duty rewards players who reach different Leagues with increasingly awesome looking armor. There is only one playlist to go hunt these items, so the competition is always fierce and streamlined. League has a very minimal amount of ranked modes/leagues, the most popular being 5v5 Classic (Draft Pick). It's the same mode the Pro LCS players play, and it is one of the only ways to get a rank – the only one that matters. You don't get a rank for playing Normal PvP matches, you don't get a rank for playing Beginner Bots, and you don't get a rank for playing Intermediate Bots.

     

    Halo should not divert from this pattern. We have "copied" so many successful elements from other games and yet for some reason 343 has chosen to try to make a modern Ranking system work and mesh with an outdated style of matchmaking/playlists. Halo 5 needs to have a minimal amount of Ranked playlists.

     

    In Halo 3, 50s meant nothing because of the large skill gap between people who had 50s, so it became a competition of "How many 50s do you have?" This is not the result of a successful ranking system, it is a gimmick. Halo 5 has an awesome end game ranking ELO system to be found in the Semi-Pro/Pro ranks, but if you are Semi-Pro in all the playlists, it no longer becomes a drive to raise your ELO and compete. Not only are you not getting the most out of your competition (people are spread across playlists), but you are just seeing how many playlists you can "beat" which isn't the purpose of the system.

     

    Halo 5's current format of ranking all playlists is taking away from the image of CSR. Were there to be only one (or very few) playlists, people's ranks would carry a lot more weight and be more successful. More details below.

Let me introduce you to my perfect world of Halo 5. In a perfect situation, there would be only one ranked playlist... mixed 4v4 with No Radar, the same as HCS. However, I understand that Halo has a varied competitive fanbase with different ranked preferences, so there could be 1-3 Ranked Playlists (similar to League/Black Ops 2), such as 4v4, 2v2, and FFA.

 

The rest of the matchmaking playlist selection is Social with semi-strict, background skill matchmaking. Team Slayer, Team Objective, SWAT, BTB, etc., do not display ranks. People don't stress over ranks, they can play socially and learn the game or enjoy their preferred game type without stressing about hyper competitive games or slow search times.

 

Arena Core (4v4), Team Doubles (2v2), and FFA are where people head for raw competition. Strict skill matchmaking, RANKS, and rewards to encourage a healthy population. When someone asks what your rank is in Halo 5 you no longer have to answer: "Well I'm Plat 2 in Team Slayer, Semi Pro in SWAT, Gold in BTB, and Silver in Team Objective, but thats because I don't play that playlist a lot"

 

It's simple. You have one rank (3 if you enjoy grinding Doubles or FFA) and it carries a weight. Now, some of you might argue "well if people want to brag about a real Rank, then they can just play the HCS playlist!" While this is true, a lot of casual players unfamiliar with the Hardcore scene will be deterred because it's considered the 'try-hard playlist' and they won't understand why being a Pro in that playlist is so amazing, if you are a Pro in the ONLY ranked playlist, clearly that means something. The population then dwindles in Hardcore/HCS and therefore the ranks then become less important. So how can we encourage players to play Ranked? XP Bonuses. REQ Point Bonuses. Exclusive Armor for reaching high ranks, free REQ Packs for playing daily matches (Play 3 Matches, get a free Gold Pack in addition to your normal REQ Points), the ideas are endless.

 

Ranks are such an essential part to a competitive game, and I'm afraid that having a Rank in every playlist will distract from the actual image and importance that a rank has. And that's on top of all the other issues like lack of social play. The playlists with ranks that actually do matter will lack in population because players will be spread out across multiple lists.

 

I'll close out by giving you my perfect list of playlists. Josh Holmes, Quinn, 343 Staff, if you read this, thank you. I don't expect you to change the current format but hopefully you recognize the successful ranking format of other games and can one day apply it to Halo. If you would like to respond with either thoughts or a defense of the current system, I'd love to hear it :)

 

 

There are probably some parts I missed, so if anyone wants to ask about parts of my logic I'll be happy to discuss. Ranks are one of the most important things in Halo to me and I know that Halo 5 has the potential to deliver on the competitive front.

 

Anywho... Playlists!

 

 

 

Ranked

  • Arena Core (4v4)
  • Team Doubles (2v2)
  • Free-For-All (6 Man FFA)

 

Social

  • Team Slayer
  • Team Objective
  • Breakout
  • Big Team Battle
  • SWAT
  • Snipers

 

Double XP/REQ Point Weekends

  • Grifball
  • Infection
  • Action Sack
  • Head to Head (1v1)
  • Race
  • and more

 

 

 

This is incredibly well written and I agree with all of it. 

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