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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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A couple of days ago I remember seeing someone say that Clamber is "balanced" and adds to the skill-gap due to making you vulnerable for the brief moment that you use it, and I was going to reply but I totally forgot. It's a misconception that needs to be addressed.

 

The idea that something increases the skill-gap, due to having a drawback for the player that uses it, is completely false. The same excuse was made for Armour Lock and Sprint.

We could say "Armour Lock increases the skill-gap because if you use it, you make yourself vulnerable when you come out of it because the enemy team could gather around you. Therefore it's balanced and increases the skill-gap". No. The reason this is not true is because the alternative to Armour Lock was harder than AL itself. The alternative was that you would have to use the skills of strafing and shooting to out-play your opponent in that same situation, whereas AL reduces the situation to the holding of a button, and actually makes your chances of surviving a lot higher.

 

We could say "Sprint increases the skill-gap because if you use it, you make yourself vulnerable because when you're running away, you can't shoot". No. The alternative to sprint is that when you run away, your enemy is able to chase and shoot at the same speed, meaning it's more likely that you'll be punished for not playing as well as that player.

 

We could say "Clamber increases the skill-gap because if you use it, you make yourself vulnerable for a second due to not being able to shoot". No. The alternative to Clamber is that you have missed the jump and are even more vulnerable due to being in the same position and having to start over. This process of starting the jump over makes it more time consuming and more of a challenge than the tiny duration of vulnerability that you get whilst in the Clamber animation.

 

Just because there is a risk of messing something up, does not mean it increases the skill-gap, and it certainly doesn't automatically "balance" anything.

That was me that said that, let me clarify:

 

I don't necessarily mean it increases the skill gap, I just mean in the case that someone DOES miss the jump it deepens the gameplay from there. If you make the jump, great you showed your skill, but if you miss your jump you have to make a choice between clambering and falling. Depending on the situation, there would be a right and wrong decision. I think to emphasize this, 343 will need to increase the time it takes to clamber. As it is, if you miss a jump in the midst of a firefight it gives the opponent a very small window of time to get a shot on you, maybe two, before you can respond. It needs to be an obvious disadvantage, which it doesn't seem to be there yet.

 

also, im going to go ahead and say that NOTHING in this game is balanced yet. I'm just trying to point out to people that there are levers that can be pulled on 343's side to MAKE it balanced. All the mechanics they're introducing are not fundamentally bad mechanics, we just need to communicate during the beta which levers need to be pulled.

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Yeah the only real solution if they want to keep it in is to redesign the way it is controlled. I'd rather be able to make a situational choice if I want to float or not.

 

Maybe if you hit the jump button again you initiate float? then you can hit it one more time to cancel the float and drop.

 

I still don't like that randomness, an important part to aiming is tracking someone who is falling with your reticle. A person who is a more skilled player will lose just because they were expecting a player to fall at a normal rate. You can't tell if people are going to activate it or not.

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I still don't like that randomness, an important part to aiming is tracking someone who is falling with your reticle. A person who is a more skilled player will lose just because they were expecting a player to fall at a normal rate. You can't tell if people are going to activate it or not.

but i kind of like that, it becomes the equivalent of a strafe in the air. as long as they can only activate it once i don't necessarily see the problem. just as long as ACTUAL strafing is better in most situations. 

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but i kind of like that, it becomes the equivalent of a strafe in the air. as long as they can only activate it once i don't necessarily see the problem. just as long as ACTUAL strafing is better in most situations. 

 

Okay, I do agree with that, I like the idea of a mid-air strafe, but its less of a strafe (where you have a pacing and options) and more of just a halt in movement that can throw off your enemy. In addition, it acts as a crutch for people who cant aim in the air.

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Okay, I do agree with that, I like the idea of a mid-air strafe, but its less of a strafe (where you have a pacing and options) and more of just a halt in movement that can throw off your enemy. In addition, it acts as a crutch for people who cant aim in the air.

It depends, because while you're sitting still in the air you can't use your strafe to assist your  aiming, which i feel might actually make it HARDER for that same group of people. Not sure at the moment though, would have to play it.

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Okay, I do agree with that, I like the idea of a mid-air strafe, but its less of a strafe (where you have a pacing and options) and more of just a halt in movement that can throw off your enemy. In addition, it acts as a crutch for people who cant aim in the air.

I don't see how it would throw off your opponent any more than jumping does. Agree with your second point though.

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It depends, because while you're sitting still in the air you can't use your strafe to assist your  aiming, which i feel might actually make it HARDER for that same group of people. Not sure at the moment though, would have to play it.

 

That's true, you do become a sitting duck. 

 

Unlike everyone else, Stabilizers are my main issue with the new features, but you've brought up some interesting points, we'll have to wait for December, I guess.

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I'm gonna be honest. I do play Halo competitively now, however I am loving Halo 5. Does that make me an 343 ass kisser or dick rider? No it does not but I'm open to innovation in a game, as long as it's done right. I hated Reach, hated Halo 4, but for me Halo 5 does look competitive...from my perspective. Don't get me wrong, I loved the original trilogy, and still play it to this very day, but I will give Halo 5 a chance just like I gave Reach and Halo 4 a chance. I may not have liked Halo 4 or Reach but I still played them, and enjoyed them for what I wanted to enjoy it for. 

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I know Sprint is bad, but if we nerf it too much, the maps will be to big. I'd rather see offensive traits added to sprint like Charge, or something that stops people from sprinting away in battle (besides shield recharge delay). You shouldn't be able to sprint if you have no shields... 

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I know Sprint is bad, but if we nerf it too much, the maps will be to big. I'd rather see offensive traits added to sprint like Charge, or something that stops people from sprinting away in battle (besides shield recharge delay). You shouldn't be able to sprint if you have no shields... 

the idea that keeps popping into my head is:

 

If you're not already sprinting, you can't start sprinting when getting shot. like a .5sec cd before you can START a sprint after getting shot. that way, it can still be used offensively and for movement around the map, but it isn't an option to start firing then run away.

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Alright so from reading what everybody's been posting I think we can almost ALL agree on these changes. I'm sure the will be more when we actually play the game, but having a good list beforehand will help out a lot too:

 

 

- Create the window of opportunity to use Clamber incredibly small so you could say it even takes "skill" or a better sense of timing to use it

 

- Make it so that if you miss a Ground and Pound you lose shields

 

- Longer recharge time for AAs such as Thrust

 

- Maybe make it so you can't use Sprint when you have NO shields? IT's only used as an offensive trait?

 

- Lower the power of Thrust

 

- Toggle Spartan chatter. Or if you can't toggle it, just tone it down a bit

 

- There's WAY too many medals now: Big Game Hunter, Hat Trick, Reversal, etc. etc.

 

- Re-record the Announcer so he speaks with less enthusiasm

 

- Only show weapon spawn timers at certain moments in the game, and for only 3-5 seconds instead of ALWAYS on your screen all the time

 

- Redesign the look of The Prophet's Bane

 

 

I seriously think Halo 5 will be a great Halo game if changes like those are implemented, and I'm sure even more changes from the community when we all play the beta especially with the POSITIVE changes we've got already:

 

 

- Less auto-am

 

- More focus on power weapons and map control

 

- Spectator mode

 

- Fast kill times

 

- Halo Championship series and in-game tiered ranking

 

- Breakout gametype

 

- Static weapon timers

 

- Faster base movement

 

- No loadouts

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I guess it depends. If it works well I won't be against it but if we get reach's arena again then no thanks.

Menke is in charge of ranks. The ranking system is really the only thing I'm fully confident in for H5. Rest of the game I'm still iffy on.

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@@TM22.. I like the idea that ground pound drains your shields say 50% whether you miss or hit. Then it becomes more strategic as well as tactical. You only use it if you are confident you will wipe out those in any striking range. Or as a sacrifice play for your team in flag or bomb.

 

Clamber skill... The ledge is just high enough if you miss you fall to your death. But the rewards are worth it.

 

Has anyone heard confirmation jet packs are not in h5?

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@@TM22.. I like the idea that ground pound drains your shields say 50% whether you miss or hit. Then it becomes more strategic as well as tactical. You only use it if you are confident you will wipe out those in any striking range. Or as a sacrifice play for your team in flag or bomb.

 

Clamber skill... The ledge is just high enough if you miss you fall to your death. But the rewards are worth it.

 

Has anyone heard confirmation jet packs are not in h5?

I feel like as long as the ground pound is hard to hit, and you have a decent lag after landing you can't do anything during, there doesn't need to be an additional downside with your shields going away. 

 

after H2/H3 where chief falls from SPACE and lives, i don't think any sort of fall damage is going to be in the game.

 

Unless 343 are hiding something, no jetpacks. You can kind of hover a bit with the thruster pack though.

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Am I the only one who's glad that they changed the Sniper Rifle design it actually looks decent in this game and not a toy in Halo 4 though I wish it was black instead of gray.

 

I really hope theres BR starts for the beta since every single gameplay video I've seen has been those god awful ar starts.

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Am I the only one who's glad that they changed the Sniper Rifle design it actually looks decent in this game and not a toy in Halo 4 though I wish it was black instead of gray.

 

I really hope theres BR starts for the beta since every single gameplay video I've seen has been those god awful ar starts.

 

Unless I missed some recent changes, last I saw the H5 sniper was just a depressing upres of the terrible and dull looking H4 one.

 

I know this is ridiculous, but if they copy and pasted in the H3 sniper model, even without bumping up the resolution, it would probably make me 20% more interested in this game.

 

Gameplay is obviously more important, but visuals still matter. One of the reasons I fell in love with Halo was the visuals seemed so perfect and stuck to a theme so well. Now it's just a big 343 sized mess. That sniper model represents everything I despised about Halo 4.

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No offensive ability should be punishing the player for performing them, @@TM22.

 

Ground Pound it is pretty fair balanced at the moment, I feel that it just needs a mandatory 'full' charge up, and a slow recovery animation. The player is already taking the risk of giving up high ground/power position and has the chance of missing if the enemy knows what they are doing.

 

AOE Blast Radius should be reduced too.

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Unless I missed some recent changes, last I saw the H5 sniper was just a depressing upres of the terrible and dull looking H4 one.

 

I know this is ridiculous, but if they copy and pasted in the H3 sniper model, even without bumping up the resolution, it would probably make me 20% more interested in this game.

Noticed it in this GIF it looks way better then what it was in Halo 4 it's not as good as the Reach/H2A Sniper but anything is better then the H4 Sniper

 

i08OBLkComeQJ.gif

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Noticed it in this GIF it looks way better then what it was in Halo 4 it's not as good as the Reach/H2A Sniper but anything is better then the H4 Sniper

 

i08OBLkComeQJ.gif

 

 

Why do they insist on giving the sniper recoil/kick when its never had that before? Dont they think of the montage kids when making these decisions? :P  I just do not like the overtexturing and big scopes on this sniper either, its only marginally better aesthetically than H4. The Halo sniper needs to be capable at all ranges, I cant 180 no-scope with Wall-E blocking my view 343.

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Sniper is a placeholder most likely. All the other weapons are redesigned so they probably just don't have a new render of the Sniper yet.

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Noticed it in this GIF it looks way better then what it was in Halo 4 it's not as good as the Reach/H2A Sniper but anything is better then the H4 Sniper

 

i08OBLkComeQJ.gif

H2A's sniper is beautiful. But the H2A campaign's is bad ass. H4/H5's look like a portable microwave oven tbh. I'll also take H3's

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Noticed it in this GIF it looks way better then what it was in Halo 4 it's not as good as the Reach/H2A Sniper but anything is better then the H4 Sniper

 

i08OBLkComeQJ.gif

That is the Halo 4 Sniper the only thing different is the higher FoV

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Sniper is indifferent to me, but what might have killed it for me is if the H5 BR had the same sound as the H4 BR, that chirpy cricket BS drives me insane. I hate that more than anything in any halo game ever.

 

SOOO glad they didnt do that again.

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That is the Halo 4 Sniper the only thing different is the higher FoV

There slightly different compare the H4 Sniper Rifle below too that one they got rid of that stupid blue thing on it.

 

maxresdefault.jpg

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