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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmbG7e9gGSM

 

I'm just not feeling a Halo vibe at all man. Look how overpowered the smg is....... everything is superfast. I just see sprint and i automatically don't see the game as Halo. I see Greenskull over here saying it feels like a Halo game. Like for the love of God just shut up. You said the same crap when Halo 4 was shown. He has nothing bad to say because he gets all these invites from 343 and stuff. I really think that 343 should have just not put the Halo name on their games. I tried to be optimistic after the reveal but the more gameplay videos i watch im just not feeling it when i see this game, i just don't see a Halo game. 

 

Yes i know its a beta year out but, question is will 343 actually listen to our critical wants and needs. Yes they listened in terms of spectator mode, descope, ranks and even playing field but then again the number one thing that we all wanted gone from the game is still here to stay (sprint) and that is imo the number one thing that killed the halo vibe. 

 

My thing is, what are the majority of the players that stopped playing Halo 4  think about this reveal? because they are who matters because unless sprint is removed and we get the Halo that everyone knows and love we may get another Halo 4 result but the only difference will be now we have developer competitive support and a ranking system but will that be enough to make people stay and keep playing the game?

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So I kind of left this thread when the gameplay was shown and everyone was going ape shit. Looks like it's all good now. Here are my inital impressions of the gameplay. Instead of multi-paragraphs, I'll give you bullets. Short and sweet.

 

  • Thursters are cool, I wish they would just increase the base player speed though
  • Sprint is stupid, but it being linked to your shields makes it slightly less stupid than in Reach and Halo 4
  • I don't know how I feel about the charge. It seems like it will be annoying
  • If there is one thing I am certain about, it's that ground pound is OP as can be. An instant kill simply because you're above them? Yeah no thanks.
  • Slide is whatever

 

But you know one thing that really confuses me, it's the announcer. I know this isn't a big deal gameplay wise, but I just don't understand? Halo 4's oversaturation of the announcer was highly criticized and even laughed at a public demo with 343 right there. "YOU HAVE THE BALL. SCORE TO WIN" and the entire crowd started laughing and it wasn't a good laugh. I even thought that would get 343 to fix it before the Halo 4 launch. No one, and I mean no one, likes it. And they made it worst? That announcer is so fucking annoying, 343. It's not a hard thing to fix.  

Ground pound doesn't seem that broken to me. I mean, look at backsmacks, an instant kill simply because you're behind them? Yeah you can argue you outflanked them, but you can argue the same about ground pound, you out positioned them. 

 

At least groound pound has downsides: if you arent accurate its not a kill, you have to give up your higher position, charge time that you can be killed during.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmbG7e9gGSM

 

I'm just not feeling a Halo vibe at all man. Look how overpowered the smg is....... everything is superfast. I just see sprint and i automatically don't see the game as Halo. I see Greenskull over here saying it feels like a Halo game. Like for the love of God just shut up. You said the same crap when Halo 4 was shown. He has nothing bad to say because he gets all these invites from 343 and stuff. I really think that 343 should have just not put the Halo name on their games. I tried to be optimistic after the reveal but the more gameplay videos i watch im just not feeling it when i see this game, i just don't see a Halo game. 

 

Yes i know its a beta year out but, question is will 343 actually listen to our critical wants and needs. Yes they listened in terms of spectator mode, descope, ranks and even playing field but then again the number one thing that we all wanted gone from the game is still here to stay (sprint) and that is imo the number one thing that killed the halo vibe. 

 

My thing is, what are the majority of the players that stopped playing Halo 4  think about this reveal? because they are who matters because unless sprint is removed and we get the Halo that everyone knows and love we may get another Halo 4 result but the only difference will be now we have developer competitive support and a ranking system but will that be enough to make people stay and keep playing the game?

Yes, they didn't remove sprint, because I think they believe they can balance it this time around. whether or not it's true, who knows, but they're at least heading in the right direction.

 

Basically every major complaint we had from a competitive point of view has been addressed or removed as well. Every pro that has played the game is saying the aiming is the hardest since CE, Weapon sandbox looks like it might be balanced for once (SMG has kind of turned into  a pseudo-power weapon like the shotgun for midrange,) descope is back (who gives a fuck if it looks like ADS to some people; it's functionally the same and IMO the holographic sights scream Halo to me,) kill times are the fastest since CE, maps are being catered towards competitive play rather than whatever the heck their priority was before.

 

They're also adding in some features that are nice for the lesser skilled player to understand the competitive scene: spartan callouts, power weapon timing, HCS, new ranking system. 

 

For the first time EVER, it seems like the developer of Halo is actually making a game with the right mindset. I'm excited. 

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Yeah you can argue you outflanked them, but you can argue the same about ground pound, you out positioned them.

Not necessarily. You could of just spawned above them.

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what do you guys think about the halo 5 ranking system? it was confirmed it will be a 7-tier system. not sure how i feel about it, i am personally a fan of the 1-50 H2/H3 system.

 

http://teambeyond.net/halo-5-ranking-system-details/

I would rather have 1-50 BUT a tier system is better than no ranking system like we've gotten in the past 4 years.

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I think people downplay how annoying thruster will be. All I used in Halo 4 was the thruster and I abused the shiz out of it. It is a quick get out of jail free card and having every person using that is going to get old very fast. I would say remove sprint and thruster and i'll be happy. Ground pound doesn't fit Halo but from what GoldenBoy said in the most recent Bomb Planted episode it doesn't sound like it will be OP at all.

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Haven't read the whole thread, but is anyone else concerned about how strong the SMG is? The paint and spray guns are going to dominate matchmaking on the "smaller" arena maps.

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Could have just spawned behind them for backsmack

Doesn't happen nearly as often as spawning above someone, which happens ALL the time.

 

Back smacking also has quite a bit more ways to prevent it from happening. Someone on your team can just call out "behind you (enter GT here)" and you can turn around and boom prevented. While with ground pound someone could say "above you (enter GT here)" lol which would have to be said all the time. Now what can you do? Jack shit that's what, unless you're lucky enough that you are able to get higher very quickly or they somehow miss you. Other than that you're fucked.

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Haven't read the whole thread, but is anyone else concerned about how strong the SMG is? The paint and spray guns are going to dominate matchmaking on the "smaller" arena maps.

It looks like the SMG has a rather short range, but I do agree, automatics seem to be very strong. I feel like it would have been balanced if the automatics didn't have smart scope (making them easier to aim) since the aim assists are much lower now. Right now, the best approach IMO would be either a big recoil increase or a slight damage or ROF reduction. From what I've calculated, the AR is a 14 shot kill.

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Haven't read the whole thread, but is anyone else concerned about how strong the SMG is? The paint and spray guns are going to dominate matchmaking on the "smaller" arena maps.

 

Its ranged appears to very limited, so I don't have a problem with it.

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Doesn't happen nearly as often as spawning above someone, which happens ALL the time.

 

Back smacking also has quite a bit more ways to prevent it from happening. Someone on your team can just call out "behind you (enter GT here)" and you can turn around and boom prevented. While with ground pound someone could say "above you (enter GT here)" lol which would have to be said all the time. Now what can you do? Jack shit that's what, unless you're lucky enough that you are able to get higher very quickly or they somehow miss you. Other than that you're fucked.

The charge time is long from what many people have been saying, so if you get called out, youre gonna get focused and die. youre essentially just floating in the air with no cover. also, if its too late to kill them, but you hear it happening or whatever, thruster pack in any direction and voila, they miss and now they're in a bad position. 

 

The only counter to a backsmack is a callout, or having a good headset/ears. you give up nothing for a backsmack, you give up position and cover for a ground pound.

 

Also, on most good maps, if youre spawning above somebody, the other team is not taking advantage of spawns/does not know how to predict them. And again, if youre fortunate enough to spawn right above someone, you'd have to really want to do a ground pound to give up that position.

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I'm just not feeling a Halo vibe at all man. Look how overpowered the smg is....... everything is superfast. I just see sprint and i automatically don't see the game as Halo. I see Greenskull over here saying it feels like a Halo game. Like for the love of God just shut up. You said the same crap when Halo 4 was shown. He has nothing bad to say because he gets all these invites from 343 and stuff. I really think that 343 should have just not put the Halo name on their games. I tried to be optimistic after the reveal but the more gameplay videos i watch im just not feeling it when i see this game, i just don't see a Halo game. 

 

Yes i know its a beta year out but, question is will 343 actually listen to our critical wants and needs. Yes they listened in terms of spectator mode, descope, ranks and even playing field but then again the number one thing that we all wanted gone from the game is still here to stay (sprint) and that is imo the number one thing that killed the halo vibe. 

 

My thing is, what are the majority of the players that stopped playing Halo 4  think about this reveal? because they are who matters because unless sprint is removed and we get the Halo that everyone knows and love we may get another Halo 4 result but the only difference will be now we have developer competitive support and a ranking system but will that be enough to make people stay and keep playing the game?

As a person who played Halo 4 long after the rest of this community did (SR-130, 100% commendations, 30k something kills, was once in top 100 of Ohio blah blah (I saw forum user @@Katastrophe on there at one point too lol)), I'm all too familiar with what exactly made Halo 4 a bad Halo.

 

Yeah, sprint was a factor. It doesn't look like it negatively impacts H5 though. Well, should I say, there is a pro and a con to it, ultimately leveling out to be 'whatever, it is what it is', you know? On one hand, you can coordinate with your team to catch vulnerable sprinters, which is a solution to the kind of player that just nopes out of gunfights constantly. But you see here, I call it a 'solution' instead of a 'counterplay', as if that act is a problem. I believe it is a problem, because bailing from gunfights in such a defensive manner is a pretty unskillful manuever. But then again, that unskillful manuever can be countered by the equivalent skill of coordinating a team to take down a weak sprinter.

 

So in the end, you lose something and gain something to level out to nothing significant at all. In my view, that is the epitome of meaningless mechanic in a game. There is meaningful mechanic, like nading gear to you. There is detrimental mechanic, which is of course Reach-esque sprint, or dare I say the 'Resistor' perk in H4 that ignored slow down when being shot (fkn lol). Then there is 'meh', empty mechanic, like my above conjecturing details.

 

And why waste time and a button on the controller for something meaningless, yeah? It's clutter. However, if such a mechanic was to bring in the newfags, shitserfs, lolplebs of 'modernized' shooters, and actually DID? Well, that's meta right there, and all things accounted for, then it isn't so meaningless. That, however, is an even bigger conjecture than my prior ones. Let's not assume new players will come to Halo for that.

 

 

But who's to say that sprint will actually hamper 1v1 duels in the first place?

 

Now I play devil's advocate.

 

 

It depends on the map sightlines, too. What if someone tries to sprint away from you, at a base on that 'Midship', going to side base (elbow? idfk call outs anymore). It looks like that's a fair bit to traverse. YOU are smart, you THRUST in that direction so you can still fire, and the quick kill times will most likely clean up the sprinter.

 

It can even be a skill check.

 

Someone turns around to run down that ramp? Lead a groundpound onto his projected path and fuck him up. Hey, ground pounds could be the counter play to sprinting? Unskillful mechanic use results in insta-death from assailant.

 

Those are my thoughts.

 

 

 

But you know what? In my eyes, sprint wasn't the worst thing about H4. I still say it was the lime flavored icing on the cake. Shit, lemon line cake is an acquired taste and us fine folk like pumpkin.

 

The worst was unequal starts, a close second being the deliberate gimping of base player traits from past games, stuffed into perks. Then of course, there were the random power weapons drops and random personal ordnance. It was ALL about in inequality, what made H4 so bad. Even sprint was inequal amongst players. Silent sprint? Stealth. Unlimited sprint? Mobility. Unrelenting sprint? Resistor. I think, literally, the only assured equalities amongst players was shield strength and base movement speed.

 

And when you have an unequal shooter trying to be 'arena', everything falls apart. Sure, good strafe and stuff is nice too. But fact of it is, CoD twitch style gameplay with all its clunkiness in an equal arena setting will be better than Halo arcade style gameplay in a...Halo 4 setting. (I don't even know what to call that setting. You know what I mean.)

 

 

 

Everything I see in Halo 5 looks to be centered on what makes Halo...what Halo is supposed to be. It's just Halo in a color we've had bad connotative experience with thus far. This whole sprint thing? Just because that chocolate icing is colored yellow to look like nasty lemon? That don't mean it's lemon, man.

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I would rather have 1-50 BUT a tier system is better than no ranking system like we've gotten in the past 4 years.

Tier system is objectively better. Why would you rather have 1-50?

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As a person who played Halo 4 long after the rest of this community did (SR-130, 100% commendations, 30k something kills, was once in top 100 of Ohio blah blah (I saw forum user @@Katastrophe on there at one point too lol)), I'm all too familiar with what exactly made Halo 4 a bad Halo.

 

Yeah, sprint was a factor. It doesn't look like it negatively impacts H5 though. Well, should I say, there is a pro and a con to it, ultimately leveling out to be 'whatever, it is what it is', you know? On one hand, you can coordinate with your team to catch vulnerable sprinters, which is a solution to the kind of player that just nopes out of gunfights constantly. But you see here, I call it a 'solution' instead of a 'counterplay', as if that act is a problem. I believe it is a problem, because bailing from gunfights in such a defensive manner is a pretty unskillful manuever. But then again, that unskillful manuever can be countered by the equivalent skill of coordinating a team to take down a weak sprinter.

 

So in the end, you lose something and gain something to level out to nothing significant at all. In my view, that is the epitome of meaningless mechanic in a game. There is meaningful mechanic, like nading gear to you. There is detrimental mechanic, which is of course Reach-esque sprint, or dare I say the 'Resistor' perk in H4 that ignored slow down when being shot (fkn lol). Then there is 'meh', empty mechanic, like my above conjecturing details.

 

And why waste time and a button on the controller for something meaningless, yeah? It's clutter. However, if such a mechanic was to bring in the newfags, shitserfs, lolplebs of 'modernized' shooters, and actually DID? Well, that's meta right there, and all things accounted for, then it isn't so meaningless. That, however, is an even bigger conjecture than my prior ones. Let's not assume new players will come to Halo for that.

 

 

But who's to say that sprint will actually hamper 1v1 duels in the first place?

 

Now I play devil's advocate.

 

 

It depends on the map sightlines, too. What if someone tries to sprint away from you, at a base on that 'Midship', going to side base (elbow? idfk call outs anymore). It looks like that's a fair bit to traverse. YOU are smart, you THRUST in that direction so you can still fire, and the quick kill times will most likely clean up the sprinter.

 

It can even be a skill check.

 

Someone turns around to run down that ramp? Lead a groundpound onto his projected path and fuck him up. Hey, ground pounds could be the counter play to sprinting? Unskillful mechanic use results in insta-death from assailant.

 

Those are my thoughts.

 

 

 

But you know what? In my eyes, sprint wasn't the worst thing about H4. I still say it was the lime flavored icing on the cake. Shit, lemon line cake is an acquired taste and us fine folk like pumpkin.

 

The worst was unequal starts, a close second being the deliberate gimping of base player traits from past games, stuffed into perks. Then of course, there were the random power weapons drops and random personal ordnance. It was ALL about in inequality, what made H4 so bad. Even sprint was inequal amongst players. Silent sprint? Stealth. Unlimited sprint? Mobility. Unrelenting sprint? Resistor. I think, literally, the only assured equalities amongst players was shield strength and base movement speed.

 

And when you have an unequal shooter trying to be 'arena', everything falls apart. Sure, good strafe and stuff is nice too. But fact of it is, CoD twitch style gameplay with all its clunkiness in an equal arena setting will be better than Halo arcade style gameplay in a...Halo 4 setting. (I don't even know what to call that setting. You know what I mean.)

 

 

 

Everything I see in Halo 5 looks to be centered on what makes Halo...what Halo is supposed to be. It's just Halo in a color we've had bad connotative experience with thus far. This whole sprint thing? Just because that chocolate icing is colored yellow to look like nasty lemon? That don't mean it's lemon, man.

to add to your point, I think people are underestimating how hard sprint is going to be nerfed by the fast kill times alone. if you want to sprint away, you literally would have to not even be trying to fight anyone in order to get away in time. there isn't any time to put 2 shots in someone and run away if theyre shooting you at the same time.

 

a playstyle like that is only gonna hurt your team. Basically sprinting away is going to become a stat whore move, or used by people that are literally afraid of a 1v1.

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Doesn't happen nearly as often as spawning above someone, which happens ALL the time.

 

Back smacking also has quite a bit more ways to prevent it from happening. Someone on your team can just call out "behind you (enter GT here)" and you can turn around and boom prevented. While with ground pound someone could say "above you (enter GT here)" lol which would have to be said all the time. Now what can you do? Jack shit that's what, unless you're lucky enough that you are able to get higher very quickly or they somehow miss you. Other than that you're fucked.

thrusting away from a groundpound sounds 10x faster than turning 180 degrees to prevent a back smack. thruster Op

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It looks like the SMG has a rather short range, but I do agree, automatics seem to be very strong. I feel like it would have been balanced if the automatics didn't have smart scope (making them easier to aim) since the aim assists are much lower now. Right now, the best approach IMO would be either a big recoil increase or a slight damage or ROF reduction. From what I've calculated, the AR is a 14 shot kill.

I think the SMG is pretty clearly designed to be a mid tier power weapon

 

Not like a sniper or rocket that's getting you overkills, but more like a brute or plasma pistol where it gives you enough firepower to overwhelm a single isolated opponent

 

As long as it's autoaim constants aren't absurd I think the weapon will actually be alright, basically it's a shotgun that's harder to use because its not a burst fire weapon

 

Now if these things are spawning into the map every 10-30 seconds then we have a huge problem no doubt

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The charge time is long from what many people have been saying, so if you get called out, youre gonna get focused and die. youre essentially just floating in the air with no cover. also, if its too late to kill them, but you hear it happening or whatever, thruster pack in any direction and voila, they miss and now they're in a bad position. 

 

The only counter to a backsmack is a callout, or having a good headset/ears. you give up nothing for a backsmack, you give up position and cover for a ground pound.

 

Also, on most good maps, if youre spawning above somebody, the other team is not taking advantage of spawns/does not know how to predict them. And again, if youre fortunate enough to spawn right above someone, you'd have to really want to do a ground pound to give up that position.

Not sure if this(bolded) can actually be effective. How big is the blast radius? How fast is the ground pound?

 

If the blast radius is large then thruster packing will do nothing, just like if you were to try and thruster pack when someone shoots a rocket at you in H4. If the ground pound happens quickly like that special in Destiny then you're going to have to have godlike reflexes in order to dodge it.

 

You give up your location by backsmacking. Also, lets be real here, after a ground pound how hard is it going to be to get back to a higher/better position. Now that there is sprint, thruster pack, and clambering it will probably take like two seconds to get back to a higher position/cover. Let's say you see a guy coming up a pink street on Midship and you are P3 jump up and ground pound the guy. It will take you a very short amount of time to get back to P3. Or lets say you are top mid and ground pound a guy bottom mid. With the combination of sprint and thruster pack you will be able to make it to one of the basements of either bottom blue or red extremely quickly. By the time the guy that you just killed calls you out, his teammates might get like one shot in you.     

 

Also, it is almost impossible to not allow the other team to spawn on any high ground at some point. Another Midship example, unless you have a guy in their base the whole match, they're going to spawn in their base at some point. Don't know exactly know how high you have to be to ground pound but they could essentially just walk to either side of their base and just ground pound a guy that's going from pink to their base or from car to their base. Since the walk ins to the base are lower than the base.  

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I think the SMG is pretty clearly designed to be a mid tier power weapon

 

Not like a sniper or rocket that's getting you overkills, but more like a brute or plasma pistol where it gives you enough firepower to overwhelm a single isolated opponent

 

As long as it's autoaim constants aren't absurd I think the weapon will actually be alright, basically it's a shotgun that's harder to use because its not a burst fire weapon

 

Now if these things are spawning into the map every 10-30 seconds then we have a huge problem no doubt

 

 

Tier1 (power weapons)

Sniper

rocket launcher

grenade launcher

Sword

 

Tier 2 (situationally strong)

Shotgun- Close range

LR- Long range

SMG- Mid range

 

Tier 3 (utility)

Pistol- starting weapon, great close range, kill speed falls off long range. You should want to replace this with BR or DMR, but it is not useless

AR- Starting weapon, kill time similar to precision weapons when scoped, unscoped useless at long range

BR- Good at all distances, but not the "best" at any

DMR- Good at long range

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