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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Did I miss something?

They released pictures of the snow Warzone map and that was in the URL.

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From what I recall, there was a lot more action in the "Outside" portion of Empire. Eden played a bit differently.

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10-5_h5-infographic-92640374178f47f5a83d

 

I'm still really disappointed with how they appear to be approaching weapon skins. I understand there will be more skins to come, and possibly it's their deliberate strategy to hold back on skins at first to incentivize REQ pack purchases later on, but there are so few weapon skins at launch—to the extent that they don't even put the number on this infographic—that it's impossible not to worry about their thinking here. As someone most interested in Arena, I was really looking forward to exploring tons and tons of skins, but alas.

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It's the same map with a couple of platforms switched.

 

What are you people even looking at?

 

It doesn't matter how similar they look. They don't play alike at all. Not even close. If you're complaining about aesthetics though then please proceed.

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It doesn't matter how similar they look. They don't play alike at all. Not even close. If you're complaining about aesthetics though then please proceed.

Then there's some weird psychological bullshit going on that causes people to play differently on a day map than a night map because they're the same damn map.

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It doesn't matter how similar they look. They don't play alike at all. Not even close. If you're complaining about aesthetics though then please proceed.

 

Same map in my eyes, the only reason they play different is because of the power weapons on the map....

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If you take a minute and really focus on the differences between the two maps without pointing out how similar they look, there are more changes to the areas in question. One base is taller than the other, the bridges are separate and both lead to a focal point in a different vertical axis, the outside is the more important position than the interior, the bottom mid is more open, there are jumps that are activated by shooting a button, there's controllable cover at the outside area...

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Then there's some weird psychological bullshit going on that causes people to play differently on a day map than a night map because they're the same damn map.

 

There are much longer and clearer sight lines on Eden, and the power weapons differ. 

 

They play nothing alike. 

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Then there's some weird psychological bullshit going on that causes people to play differently on a day map than a night map because they're the same damn map.

Well to sum up the differences quickly. One base is raised higher than the other on Eden where on Empire they're 100% symmetrical. Snipes spawned outside and in the neutral building on Empire. Where one snipe spawns in the lower base on Eden. The higher base had a sword. The opening spawns were outside and the neutral base iirc on Eden where Empire had them inside of the bases causing a totally different opening with different weapons in different locations. The entrances and exits are totally different on Eden (comparing one base to the other) compared to Empire where they're exactly the same. The entire upper and lower bridge doesn't exist on Empire. The entire center of the map is open on Eden where its super messy and blocks line of sight on Empire. So basically the bases are at different elevations with different exits and entrances different weapon placement and different spawns. The line of sight is 100% different. There is totally different map geometry at every turn. The lights are different too. Some of the pieces are the same, obviously, but at this point its like saying every forge map that used the BR tower/Library piece was the same thing as Lockout

 

edited for more clarity

 

I totally missed a lot of differences like comparing the entrances into the neutral base and outside from the middle. The total lack of the bottom entrance to the neutral building. Etc

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If you take a minute and really focus on the differences between the two maps without pointing out how similar they look, there are more changes to the areas in question. One base is taller than the other, the bridges are separate and both lead to a focal point in a different vertical axis, the outside is the more important position than the interior, the bottom mid is more open, there are jumps that are activated by shooting a button, there's controllable cover at the outside area...

I believe I allotted for a 3% difference.

 

It is nowhere near distinct enough to pass it off as a tally on the launch map count, not even close.

 

What you're suggesting is equivalent to adding a Forge piece on Blackout to allow for a jump up from elbow to S2, adding a lift from bottom library, and calling it a "new map".

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What you're suggesting is equivalent to adding a Forge piece on Blackout to allow for a jump up from elbow to S2, adding a lift from bottom library, and calling it a "new map".

What I'm suggesting is that the maps have similar layouts, but play radically differently. Your idea of making two small changes to Blackout being compared to Eden making more than a dozen changes, along with making a symmetric map into an asymmetric map, is not a sound argument.

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I thought at first that they were going to pick what maps people liked the most during the beta, but that's not the case. Empire and Eden really aren't all that different, truth and regret are, but Eden has very little added to it in comparison.

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If only Empire had Edens lighting/Time-of-day and Eden didn't exist at all. Fuck Eden

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What I'm suggesting is that the maps have similar layouts, but play radically differently. Your idea of making two small changes to Blackout being compared to Eden making more than a dozen changes, along with making a symmetric map into an asymmetric map, is not a sound argument.

 

Guardian did not play "radically different" than Lockout because it had the same structure and same focal points, which Eden and Empire do as well. It doesn't matter that the bases are now perfectly symmetrical, they were still bases on the opposite end of an open area with a connecting outside area. If you map the base entrances differently on Midship, it would still play like Midship. It doesn't matter that the sightlines on bottom mid have changed, because top mid on Empire has the same focus as bottom mid on Eden.

 

The appreciable map structure and gameplay traffic is almost identical. They do not play RADICALLY different at all.

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since this game is focusing more on arena-style gameplay, especially with clamber and thrusting, there needs to be a focus on multi level atrium style map design, basically quake style maps. Some ctf quake maps are a good starting point for inspiration on symmetry maps, base to base, but for asymmetrical, maps that are currently used in the quakelive map pool for 1v1 dueling should be looked at for team slayer and asymmetrical gametype inspiration.

 

the Bible for competitive map design regarding arena shooters

 

http://www.goodstuffmaynard.com/portfolio/independent/cdg/index.html

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Aesthetics being similar isn't that bad of a trade-off. No one complained in CE or Halo 2.

Both HCE and H2 had a lot more visual diversity, sure it wasn't as detailed which made them look a little simila at times but that is due to the limited hardware back then, the overall architecture/composition of elements/style was different in most maps...

For lots of H5 maps, the biggest difference is the lighting/skybox

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There were a few legit people in the video, and a few... not so legit people. I think they just picked the "community cartographers" which I had no idea even existed until now.

Really? All the people there are ones I recognized as good/popular forgers who know how it works. and I'm not really "in" the forge community I just know some people.

 

CCs have been a thing since h3 or so IIRC. They are people in the community who know how to forge and what needs fixing

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You know what, honestly it doesn't even matter all that much. If the new forge is as good as people are hoping it is, then we'll have created better maps ourselves by the end of December. Then 343 will either accept their new map-making overlords, or pull an MLG.

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I hope there is more we can do with objects in terms of looks than just choosing the color.

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You know what, honestly it doesn't even matter all that much. If the new forge is as good as people are hoping it is, then we'll have created better maps ourselves by the end of December. Then 343 will either accept their new map-making overlords, or pull an MLG.

Hopefully people take into consideration that this game isnt halo 2 or 3.

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really.........FUCKING REALLY.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRo9z5BOm3Q

btw this video is 50 50 on likes and dislikes.

WTF do 343 think they are doing. Lets just release unfinished games to the public. It will make people play the game longer.

I'm paying 60 for a completed game not a unfinished game that will be finished in the months to come.

 

 

I'm so done with this company

This boy speaks the truth, but alas, all these awesome requests won't make Day 1. 

 

Your complaining will mean nothing if you still give them your 60 dollars at the end of the day.

@@Moa that is a dilemma for sure! I'm still angry over MCC, but I want to play the Halo campaign and ultimately multiplayer. And, now hearing there will missing features, playlists, et cetera at launch, I'm concerned those missing features will take months to arrive with their current track record on adding and updating missing features. So the questions is do I give them my 65 bucks because I love Halo, which in turn gives 343 the green light to continue to develop games like they do now?

 

It's a tough call but I guess if the campaign is solid then you'll get you $65 return on investment and we can come here and discuss the stuff that's either missing or we don't like and see if 343 responds to the community.

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It's the same map with a couple of platforms switched.

A couple of platforms switched and catwalks added changes how the entire map plays. Yeah, they look similar, but are pretty much entirely different maps.

It's like saying Zealot and Midship are the same map because they're both purple.

 

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A couple of platforms switched and catwalks added changes how the entire map plays

 

 

Remove the man-cannons from Narrows, it still plays like Narrows.

 

Add teleporters to Isolation, it still plays like Isolation.

 

Add a lift from waterfall to snipe room on Damnation, it still plays like Damnation.

 

Tear down the snipe towers on Pit, it still plays like Pit.

 

Put ramps from base windows to top mid on Midship.

 

There are a million modifications you can make to certain maps that provide drastically different mobility from one area of the map to the next, but will not cause the map to be played "radically" different.

 

My original point was that adding catwalks was something we could have done in forge if we wanted to, in about five minutes. To add that and then pass it off as a new map to bolster the launch count is absurd, as it will be if that's what we can expect future map updates to be like.

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Don't buy it then? Evaluations of a 'full game' are for the individual to decide, if not having Forge is a deal breaker for you (I know it will be for some) then don't purchase.

 

Your car example is basically 'release and done' so you essentially don't want post-launch support, online multiplayer games are not; cars, Subway sandwiches, films etc. CSGO for example went a good while before MM was fully integrated, 2 months before releasing it's spectator mode, one year before introducing skins and months after that until it had full integration through the live events etc. Oh no it's different because PC, even though people will complain their assess off that there isn't enough post-launch support for console games.

The classic "Don't buy it then" argument, it never gets old.

 

You are all brainwashed into thinking this is ok for developers to release half the game at launch and promise patches/fixes/the rest of the game months later.

 

I have yet to see a cohesive argument from any Beyond member here why this is ok for 343 to do this to the Halo community. Instead I just get downvoted, this site has really changed from 2013.

 

Your argument is full [email protected], Careh. My car analogy is spot on and you failed to muster a worthy argument answering my initial question: Why is it ok for developers to not ship a FULL game on launch day? If it's not done, it's not done. Post launch content? The fuck? Features that were Day One content in Halo 3 are post launch content in Halo 5? How the hell is that ok?

 

Please, amuse me Beyond. It's starting to get annoying to post here when most of you dance around the ambiguity that actually surrounds 343i's day one launch of this game.

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