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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Warzone for me is going to be awesome BECAUSE of how little I play it. I'm going to be grinding Arena and collecting a ton of cosmetic items but when a Legendary REQ Card like Kelly's Shotgun shows up in my REQ Pack I'm definitely hopping into Warzone to try it out for the unique experience with cool vehicles and weapons.

 

This is the thing that kills me about Warzone (and any grind-to-win game mode) - it's less fun the more you play it. 

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Dominion is a BTB game-type isn't it?

 

It's one of those game-modes where you play to have fun.

 

You don't see people complaining about the imbalance in Infection do you?

 

 

What imbalance? It's asymmetrical.

 

 

As for infection, you are correct, it is imbalanced by design. Good point really.

 

But if you play a symmetrical game like dominion, you can't help but wonder why it degrades into an imbalanced game like it wanted to be a round based asymmetrical game but couldn't find its way.

 

 

My apologies, I had a lapse of memory and mislabeled it as 3-Plots with bases.... You're right, it is an asymmetrical gametype (similar to KotH), so being in essence KotH with bases. However, you have yet to really identify how it's imbalanced in nature. In KotH (or any asymmetrical gametype for that matter), the asymmetrical elements are irrelevant so long as the initial objective placement is neutral and spawning is asymmetrical. If spawning is team sided, however, what matters is an even rotation of objective locations (albeit one side will be favored to have the advantage depending on what side it spawns on first). Again, these are not flaws inherent to the core design of Dominion, but are rather attributed to poor implementation of the gametype, very similar to how BTB KotH and BTB Oddball are very poor implementations of those respective gametypes.

 

Dominion's big issues are that;

1)  It's BTB

2) It's Infinity Settings

3) It's random rotation objectives w/ team sided spawns

 

Remove the latter two, and you have a reasonably decent gametype for BTB. Set it to 4v4 to 6v6 on adequately sized maps though, and you've got a decent gametype.

 

Of course it could be alternatively structured as a round based asymmetrical gametype, similar to Invasion, which would do it well to become a more enjoyable BTB experience. The bottom line, however, is that the core gametype mechanics itself are not this issue.

 

My comment "It's asymmetrical" was referring to Infection. I never said Dominion was asymmetrical. In fact I pointed out that it was symmetrical.

 

This article is a long read, but it was intentionally long to clarify in detail what symmetry means in any game, particularly Halo, and how to forge with it in mind. If you care to read through it you will see Dominion cannot be classified as asymmetrical.

 

You are incorrect in your latest post. Dominion is more of a 3 plot than KOTH simply because 3 plot correctly implemented has a center objective (base) symmetrically located between the other two. KOTH doesn't have this requirement, and in fact has five hills scattered across the map.

 

You are also wrong in saying that the asymmetrical elements are irrelevant, though I cannot see any in Dominion.

 

What makes infection unbalanced by design is that you can never become a human once you are (or if you start out as) a zombie. This precludes you from racking up points. This was the greatest flaw in infection. Infection was a multi round game type, but it didn't guarantee each player equal opportunity to start as human. Humans could theoretically achieve any score limited only by the timer, while zombies could only achieve a set amount of score limited by the human population. People enjoy it for whatever reason, idk...

 

What makes Dominion unbalanced is that once you take hold of a base, you can hold it with no real effort due to the enormous fire power you are provided with from resupply. While people can point to the Infinity as the reason this imbalance exists, they fail to realize that Dominion was designed around the Infinity. Dominion was literally designed to be imbalanced even when played at a competitive level. And this imbalance was so extreme that it lead to the termination phase, or whatever it is called, where the losing team has only one life and over shields. That wasn't anything like a traditional halo game and I point to that as a key reason the game type never really stood the test of time. It simply wasn't halo (just like Breakout isn't halo, but just another effort to contribute to the franchise regardless of how bad the contribution is, regardless of how little the responsible devs understand how halo works or how contributions they make fail within Halo).

 

It is nothing like invasion. You cannot even begin to compare the two. Warzone is an invasion wanna be, but time will tell if it even comes close. Invasion was the best game type for Halo ever designed. It was the most meticulous designed game type. It had rich detail intentionally put into its design, and it shows a lot of care and thought and testing went into it. Invasion was an asymmetrical game's asymmetrical game. It had all the elements of asymmetry better than any other. It was round based to even out the imbalance that it purposefully embraced to make the game equal in every way. It is impossible for anyone to argue against its fairness, or to suggest that its intra-round imbalance is a bad thing for it.

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This is the thing that kills me about Warzone (and any grind-to-win game mode) - it's less fun the more you play it. 

 

Going to be dependent on maps and how many REQ Variants they have. If they are rare and fun then its fine.

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I'm kind of shamelessly hoping the non-AI "invasion" like Warzone mode is 32 players to make up for the lack of AI. 

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I'm kind of shamelessly hoping the non-AI "invasion" like Warzone mode is 32 players to make up for the lack of AI. 

They've explained that Warzone is only 12v12 and no more. Personally, I'd like to keep it that size; any more and it would be ridiculous.

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Hey, everyone loved Invasion. Let's not give it to them, but instead just make a knockoff, because all our other knockoff gametypes have been accepted so well.

-343

Hm... but Extraction was decent though.

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Hey, everyone loved Invasion. Let's not give it to them, but instead just make a knockoff, because all our other knockoff gametypes have been accepted so well.

-343

ricochet was pretty fun. It was good enough that cod decided to rip it off twice...

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They've explained that Warzone is only 12v12 and no more. Personally, I'd like to keep it that size; any more and it would be ridiculous.

we were having a discussion on how 10v10 to 15v15 would be the most realistic player count to support given the nature of halos sandbox, and then like two days later they say warzone in 12v12, so I doubt 343 would ever up the player count.

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Twice? You mean they didn't get it right the first time?

pretty sure the blops 3 has it.

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pretty sure the blops 3 has it.

Ricochet is a game type from Unreal Tournament, and just because Black Ops adopted it from Advanced Warfare doesn't make it a second rip off.

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Hm... but Extraction was decent though.

 

Extraction was just s more competitive version of KOTH for me. Nothing really that great about it other than you had to be there, defenseless for a few seconds in order to start gaining points, so you had to rely on your team in order to win rather than just Lone Wolf it and rush the hill every time.

 

ricochet was pretty fun. It was good enough that cod decided to rip it off twice...

 

I thought it was cool at first, but after that it was just too easy and it lost it's appeal other than trick shots. Then again, I didn't take H4 very seriously anyways, so maybe it had some appeal or something that I didn't really ever get to know.

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you play battlefield at all?

 

 

Also this is not an assumption I've played warzone at events, I'm sure you haven't so, good one dawg.

 

I have battlefield 4...not my cup of tea..u could have just clicked on my xbox icon and look...dawg

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I think the first half of a wazone game looks fun.

 

But, the second half where half the players are playing power weapon fiesta and the other half are in tanks and banshees looks beyond stupid.

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I'd honestly like an Invasion game mode with AI that you can forge on. Like one team plays as elites and get's grunts and jackals to fight along side them and the other you play as spartans and get marines/ODSTs to fight with you. It would be epic as fuck. My Helm's Deep remakes would actually have purpose.

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I would like a tower defense gametype, where the defending team is smaller than the invading team, but spawn before hand and are allowed to set up defenses.

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I would like a tower defense gametype, where the defending team is smaller than the invading team, but spawn before hand and are allowed to set up defenses.

 

I was literally just typing this.

 

I think it'd be fun if the defending team has limited lives, and has to stay alive as long as possible (radar on for camping flaggets).

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