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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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So did you read my post?

 

 

 

 

Are any of guys seriously thinking about having one player kill themselves? That is the dumbest thing I have heard since no descope. I a team actually tried doing that they would lose every game against a team of equal skill.

 

As soon as the other team knows you are one down they can overload a side and your team will crumble.

 

Having one of your teammate kill themselves is laughable.

my post was more a joke man, I'm not saying players will kill themselves at all.

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@@Sal1ent

 

I gotta agree with the whole "1st person death-cam" idea. Dying should serve as a punishment for being out-skilled. To have this mode be the most competitive it can be, the ability to watch teammates should only serve as something to keep the player invested and communicative until the next round.

As soon as you give a dead player not a viable role, but an ADVANTAGE, don't you break the game by actually encouraging death for a certain type of player?

 

Also, one more question. Has the Halo 5 team experimented with keeping the spread of weapons (more specifically non-automatics) the same when zoomed in, providing only the bonus of range? This would make it truer to other Halo games, pleasing more Halo veterans and making Smart-Scope truly a circumstantial ability, much like the other Spartan Abilities.

Thanks for taking your time to answer some of our questions. :)

 

EDIT: For comparison purposes,

shows Halo 5's spread normal vs Smart-Scope.

xboxdvr.com/Teh%20MooMoo/369ef613-dd9c-4a83-b44d-fa8ce1ace3e2/embed Shows how zoom normally works.

while the marksmen rifles have negligible benefits the autos seem to really get a bonus especially the smg. I hope this bonus has been noticeably reduced for all weapons

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I really like the first two ideas. The last one not so much. Out of the first two I prefer whoever has possession at the end of the round since we already have oddball.

 

Right, I just went full SR but I don't think the vision thing will work as nicely as it did in that game considering the maps were huge, there was a lot of verticality within the maps, and that there were actual counters to enchanced vision as opposed to prometheon vision. It just gave the objective holder an role in teamwork by recognizing the counter push. I have a feeling that due to the smaller maps, sprint, thrust etc that it won't be as effective or even needed in the game. I would POSSIBLY like to give something to the objective holder, but wouldn't know what.

 

A deeper meta for going for the early artifact pull in Shadowrun is to gain that additional $100 for the round. It might not sound like much but the way the rounds and money work out, you'll find that the arti rush is capable of giving u the last money needed for a rifle or to click out to a teammate.

 

So maybe, granted that the oddball is in a easy to spot location across the map, the first pull on the oddball can grant you an additional shield of overshield. Not the full 3x shields but just another singular shield. No charge up time just instant shields for the first player to touch it, but considering it's (hopefully) so out in the open, the other team could easily melt that shield off as soon as he goes to touch it. That could lead to issues where a player can somehow rush the ball untouched then drop it and have the advantage, but honestly that is the fault of the other team at that point. I'm not sure how I'd feel about the objective making the player slow/fast or weak vs extreme damage.

 

I would hope that this idea could possibly generate some depth in gameplay. It really doesn't seem like a slow methodical chess match unfortunately so it's hard to force in strategy into something fast paced that lacks variables in gameplay. I would hope to see instances where the team with less people are able to acquire the oddball, gain the shield then decide whether they push with the extra shield or if they play passive and let time run out. Time would have to be very minimal, like 2-3 minutes per round for the ball to even be viable.

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Simultaneously the most delicious thing ever created and a method to rapidly gain an additional 10% of your body weight without even trying. Also, the official food of Canadia, along with maple syrup, beer and smoked salmon.

I am Canadian and I can confirm this.

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@@Sal1ent and others.

 

How would you feel if the flag on breakout wasn't something you could score? You know, like objective or point wise. Let's say that the flag either gives you time like the oddball (not as much of a fan) or that possession of the flag at the end of the time limit will win the round, even in a 1v2 situation (more of a fan of this).

Another thing is the granting the flag holder prometheon vision until he drops it. It'd be a jarring experience switching back and forth, but I'm literally just stealing ideas from shadowrun. 4v4 attrition in Shadowrun worked really well but also worked very differently. Maybe instead of a flag you can have the oddball or bomb or something that somewhat throwable?

I think a holdable objective would make capturing the objective too risky for how fast you die. A flag or ball leaves you too helpless.

A territory or hill would be better.

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I think a holdable objective would make capturing the objective too risky for how fast you die. A flag or ball leaves you too helpless.

A territory or hill would be better.

 

With the idea I have I purposely want to avoid capturing the objective and resort to just acquiring it if needed. Did you play attrition on shadowrun? There was extraction where you could take the artifact and score it at the enemy teams base, then attrition which was basically deathmatch with an objective placed on it in order to prevent camping. It offered incentive to carry it, and I have personally seen numerous 1v3's won (really dumb for the 3 people alive) because that single player was able to rush and hold the artifact with a few seconds left in the round. I've also seen 1v3's where the team is holding the artifact to win, and the single player on the other team is able to kill the holder and pick up the objective with 1 second left as the other 2 are still fighting him.

 

It's some great stuff but the issue is obviously making something work in Halo. Now are you stating that a holdable objective is bad because it leaves you helpless in battle? Or are you talking about it being an objective that you are required to capture? How would your hill/territory idea work? One hill? Multiple? Do they move around the level? Do you accumulate time? Or does capturing the hill give you a point? If 3 of your teammates are dead and you capture the hill, what advantage does that serve?

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I think a holdable objective would make capturing the objective too risky for how fast you die. A flag or ball leaves you too helpless.

A territory or hill would be better.

I think it would end up being one team kills the other first before going to the objective because of no shields, basically winning by elimination. It'd be like there's no objective at all.

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With the idea I have I purposely want to avoid capturing the objective and resort to just acquiring it if needed. Did you play attrition on shadowrun? There was extraction where you could take the artifact and score it at the enemy teams base, then attrition which was basically deathmatch with an objective placed on it in order to prevent camping. It offered incentive to carry it, and I have personally seen numerous 1v3's won (really dumb for the 3 people alive) because that single player was able to rush and hold the artifact with a few seconds left in the round. I've also seen 1v3's where the team is holding the artifact to win, and the single player on the other team is able to kill the holder and pick up the objective with 1 second left as the other 2 are still fighting him.

 

It's some great stuff but the issue is obviously making something work in Halo. Now are you stating that a holdable objective is bad because it leaves you helpless in battle? Or are you talking about it being an objective that you are required to capture? How would your hill/territory idea work? One hill? Multiple? Do they move around the level? Do you accumulate time? Or does capturing the hill give you a point? If 3 of your teammates are dead and you capture the hill, what advantage does that serve?

I'm looking to TF2 Arena for Breakout. Where the objective is a fallback if the enemy team is camping, while killing is the primary means to a victory. The hill in Arena mode doesn't spawn until late in the round, and takes a good amount of time to capture.

The hill would function like a neutral territory, where the first to take control of it wins.

 

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@@Sal1ent The ground pound animation looks a little strange when charging down from the sky. Especially when preformed from a high elevation. Is that likely to change? The assignations looked like they where ripped straight from Halo 4. Where they place holders? The animations did not look next gen. One last thing is the UI. The main menu and sub menus where uninspired. Down to the fake holodeck scene. Was the beta UI a place holder or will the final be very similar? I have a degree in graphics design and would be happy to help.  :holmes:

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If it were 4sk the kill time would make up for it only being 2.5 bullets per clip. Also, I forgot that it had 12 in the beta (thought it had 10, my b ).

 

Halo 1 pistol could get 4 kills per clip. BR can get 3 per clip. DMR was able to get 3 per clip in Reach and got slightly less in H4. Combine the 2.4 per clip with the difficulty of use because of the "clunky" mechanics you mentioned and there will be far too many situations where 2v1 you just lose.

 

Also, I said "at least 10"

 

We have functioned just fine for many years without having the player start with a spray and pray weapon that doesn't reward accuracy. The H5 AR is marginally better and is much more of a niche weapon than the BR or pistol. Pickups should be niche weapons or power weapons, not utility weapons.

 

What is wrong with spawning the player with with two weapons that allow them to do well in any situation (in other words give them utility off spawn)

 

The pistol doesn't even function well as a utility weapon. Utility means decent in every situation, but it is fantastic close, kind of sucks medium range, and is almost useless long range.

You never answered my last question. What would you do with the AR if you don't start with it? Or the pistol if you don't start with it? Does it make sense to pick those up? According to you (and I agree) no. So should they just be removed?

 

 

I think the answer to what is wrong with starting with a long range accurate weapon has been articulated.

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@@Sal1ent

 

Kind of offtopic but what would you guys think of a Halo 3: ODST type of game focusing on Kurt before/during the Ghosts of Onyx story line. Always felt like that book would fit right in and you'd get to experience more people from Blue/Green team. Its a pretty interesting story in general involving spartan IIIs and a couple of spartan IIs and it would be cool to explore the differences between the two. Plus it would be more or less self contained because of how it ends

 

edit: anddd fixed

This should be a season of spartan ops.

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It kinda annoyed me when I read 'holmes talks about invasion' only to read that its not gonna be in h5. like, really? lol

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Do you guys want a Breakout feedback thread?

 

 

Personally I liked that you could tie a round. Some of my fav games during the beta went to 13-16 rounds. 

 

I feel like we should let them release Breakout as is and let the meta evolve before we assume that we need some sort of obj. 

 

The 1v1s to clutch rounds was so much fun. 

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There is no reason to have the sprint animation. If people truly wanted to "speed" up halo, why would an increase in base speed not suffice? Adding an animation into the mix that removes your weapon from play slows down the game. Period. 343 should have increased base speed a moderate amount and removed the sprinting animation all together. The speed may not have been as fast but the spillover benefits gained from keeping your weapon active extensively marginalize the need for sprint. Aside from that, larger maps are needed to "balance" sprint which further reduce its impact. I see its inclusion as a deadweight loss with no positive trade offs. It is the most inneficient way to boost the games speed all for the sake of an animation.

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@@Sal1ent , how is flag in Halo 5? Have they changed it back to H1/2/3/R so that you can drop the flag? Flagnum yes or no?

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This notion that we shouldnt be able to kill from all ranges of spawn is wrong. go play quake, the true arena shooter, your starting weapon allows you to zoom and its hitscan across the map. it weak enough that you are still picking up better weapons but it's also strong enough to deplete a players armor and health and eventually kill me them.

I don't really think it's a case of not being able to kill at range, you can still very clearly kill at range especially considering any damage buff will have a large impact on the weapon (5sk with all headshots IIRC from the beta) and they will have fixed the supposed issues that created the disruptive recoil / flinch. MG in Quake in a way is a bad counter example because whilst you might be able to put constant damage at range, the fact you're dealing less than half the DPS of any of the other weapons makes it undesirable and less influential relative to the rest of the sandbox. The pistol by contrast puts out a much more DPS, more than the utility rifles, and is only curbed by it's difficultly of use at range (obviously taking into the account the above fixes) and clip size. For team gametypes for both games you're encouraging players to seek out the rest of the sandbox, just for different reasons.

 

Speaking generally I guess the whole idea around AR/Pistol starts from a gameplay perspective is that you are reducing redundancy whilst curbing the sandbox to be more tiered ala classic arena shooters like Quake/UT. I'm not completely sold on it, menotyou has put up the best defense of utility rifle starts in the limitations of the individual through a reduced clip of the pistol. Although somewhat mitigated by quicker reload times it's kind of a cop out to say it won't affect gameplay.

 

You never answered my last question. What would you do with the AR if you don't start with it? Or the pistol if you don't start with it? Does it make sense to pick those up? According to you (and I agree) no. So should they just be removed?

 

 

I think the answer to what is wrong with starting with a long range accurate weapon has been articulated.

They have better kill times close-med distance no? You'd still pick either of them up as a secondary, I don't think either would fall by the wayside they'd just become opportunistic picks as they have been for the majority of titles.

 

Even if they do fall by the wayside, is redundancy actually that bad if it occurs naturally?

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Even if they do fall by the wayside, is redundancy actually that bad if it occurs naturally?

I'd say yes; if the assets have already been made, might as well find a balance that achieves the most variety - Ie. Every weapon has a true niche (picking weapons up just to have a secondary doesn't count).

 

I've always believed Halo has needed more weapon variety, especially in the later titles where competitive has just been BR, Rockets, Snipe

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@@Sal1ent , how is flag in Halo 5? Have they changed it back to H1/2/3/R so that you can drop the flag? Flagnum yes or no?

 

I'm actually very curious about this as well. Any information would be appreciated.

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I'd say yes; if the assets have already been made, might as well find a balance that achieves the most variety - Ie. Every weapon has a true niche (picking weapons up just to have a secondary doesn't count).

 

I've always believed Halo has needed more weapon variety, especially in the later titles where competitive has just been BR, Rockets, Snipe

I'm in agreement that the Halo sandbox could have more variety but how much can you really get out of multiple rifles / pistols? They already sit within their respective ranges / damage outputs, they just have the potential to be outclassed by better niche weapons.

 

Counter-Strike is a really good example of both extremes working well in their own ways. CS 1.6 has a LOT of redundancy, there are lots of pistols / smgs / rifles / snipers / shotguns that are considered useless in a practical sense - what you end up with once you ignore the guns on the outside is a very streamlined hierarchy. CSGO on the other hand seeks to reduce this redundancy as much as possible (for inclusion and also for monetizing reasons) so that the majority of the weapons that were completely discarded in 1.6 now have their own place in the game. There are positives and negatives for both and having played both at a reasonably high level I would be hard pressed to say objectively which is the better approach.

 

At the end of the day, even if they've created the assets I'm not going to be upset if no one ever picks up the Carbine again.

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It kinda annoyed me when I read 'holmes talks about invasion' only to read that its not gonna be in h5. like, really? lol

Ray's got some clickbait titles.

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I reallly enjoyed breakout. I wouldn't mind an objective based version of the game mode, but I'd also like to keep the slayer one as well. By far my most favorite playlist in the halo 5 beta. I had so much fun playing it. I also feel like it would be a pretty good team dubs gametype imo lol.

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Ray's got some clickbait titles.

I dont know why I found this funny asf xD

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