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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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I would support this so long as the recoil/flinch are removed from the magnum along with an increase in RRR/4sk otherwise I'd much prefer BR/AR starts.

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Halo isn't Quake or UT, where you have high movement speed and fast spawning weapons all around you. The slower pace necessitates an effective starting weapon. AR/SMG starts mean you're slow AND weak off the spawn, which makes for awful gameplay unless the reason you play Halo is the endless AR-spray-beatdown meatgrinder.

 

If the pistol is a top-tier weapon and the rifles on the map are plentiful, I'm down with the AR/Pistol starts. But to be clear, the pistol has to be able to go toe-to-toe with the rifles, if you want to avoid high level competitive games becoming incredibly one-sided as soon as one team gets control.

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It would solve all the problems this community has with the movement mechanics, wouldn't it

It'd also create a bunch of other problems with almost every other mechanic that isn't movement based and general weapon tuning. 

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They've very intentionally tiptoed around 1080p, definitely hasn't been confirmed. If it's anything like h2a I'd rather have 900p with a stable frame rate. You lose frames single player looking at stock stonetown for Christ sake.

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Would a zero-recoil/flinch 4sk, 1.0 second, Pistol, with a longer RRR (BR levels) be okay with everyone? Keeping current aim assist levels (which are low), so BR/DMR would be easier at range. Also give the BR the 2-shot beatdown to differentiate itself more. 

 

If that sounds too strong, @@Sal1ent, even a 1.2 second perfect kill Magnum would be good, with the above changes. 

 

Edit: As soon as I wrote this, I realized that this doesn't get rid of the annoying pinging that many people dislike BRs for. What's the best way to balance the Magnum's smart-scope so it can compete, but is harder to use than BR/DMR? 

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It would have given the map a much better flow with the way you have it, however, SMGs are just so so so weak that it's hard to make a point with them in mind. I just feel like most symmetrical maps should have at least 3 precision weapons / Tier 2 weapons per side to pick up, on 30 to 60 second respawn timers depending on the clip size. Pit in Halo 3 is a good example of what I consider decent BR placement (though the timers were still a bit long).

 

Of course, good map design will also support placing them away from power positions.

 

Although I'm beating around the bush, my point in stressing that about Halo 2's potential vs execution is this:

 

Halo 2's mid-tier weapon (BR) placement was awful.

Halo 2's starting weapon (SMG) was awful.

 

Halo 5's non-BR starting weapon (AR/Pistol) is capable.  In closer ranges, it's actually BETTER than the BR, and although there were SOME long sight lines on the map, there were also plenty of routes to get from point A to point B without being seen 100% of the time.

 

So, if Halo 5's mid-tier weapon placement (BR, DMR, Light Rifle) is improved when compared to H2's, does that not further open the door for AR/Magnum starts to be a viable option?

 

Note: I do think the Magnum's feel and snappiness could be improved, but I also feel like the niche it fills in the game is overlooked by people too tunneled in thinking the BR and DMR are the be-all, end-all of precision weaponry.  If the Magnum "felt" better, without actually being stronger, I think people would be more inclined to align with the argument I am making as a whole.

 

I also think every one of the precision weapons, including the Magnum, should be balanced for skill at medium range -- however, outside of those ranges, whether nearer or farther, each weapon's strengths should be more pronounced.  I am against the concept of one weapon dominating all three ranges, and it's a large part of why I think a Pistol good at Close/average at Medium is fantastic, especially if it were to be grouped with a BR that is average at all ranges, and a DMR that is mediocre at Close, average at Medium range, but carries a longer RRR (and potentially stronger aim assist, though with longer RRR range that isn't quite necessary) that allows it to reign supreme at longer ranges.

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considering most of this stuff is outdated

Well, the first legit picture of Halo 5 (Locke and Chief) shows the BR with the current sight. While the Teaser Trailer of H5's Beta didn't show a sight. Now, we're getting this picture of bunch of weapons without sights....
 

halo5character.jpg
 

 

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So no, no speculation here. The honeymoon phase will pass and the analytical crowd will be shitting on nearly every aspect of h5 (thrust included, you can see it happening now in some threads) just like they did with reach. The population will take a huge plunge just like the last 2 games and halo 5's product life cycle won't be anything comparable to what halo used to be.

Okay so who wins next years Super Bowl? You seem to have a time machine so hook a  brother up.

 

Is a full month really not enough time to get over a honeymoon phase? Because the majority of BE (who I'd consider the analytical crowd) said they enjoyed thruster after a month of Halo 5. 

 

 

When asked if the more analytical crowd had an influence on the inclusion of thruster in halo 5, going off a poll that was taken after the mechanic was coded into halo 5 is not a reliable way to verify any truth in that statement.

I'd say the fact that the competitive settings we designed for Halo 4 had thruster pack is some indication to 343 that we enjoy it for competitive play. 

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Buck is on #TeamLocke?! Shhhiiieeeeeeet. I don't know which team to be on now. :(

 

It'd be amazeballs if Jun and Palmer were on the same team, but they may not even make an appearance. Jun is busy retconning more shit and Palmer is verbally harassing eggheads. :kappa:

 

It also looks like #TeamChief has equal gender reprensentation and that makes my inner SJW happy but this hella ain't the forum for those talks lol

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Would a zero-recoil/flinch 4sk, 1.0 second, Pistol, with a longer RRR (BR levels) be okay with everyone? Keeping current aim assist levels (which are low), so BR/DMR would be easier at range. Also give the BR the 2-shot beatdown to differentiate itself more.

 

If that sounds too strong, @@Sal1ent, even a 1.2 second perfect kill Magnum would be good, with the above changes.

 

Edit: As soon as I wrote this, I realized that this doesn't get rid of the annoying pinging that many people dislike BRs for. What's the best way to balance the Magnum's smart-scope so it can compete, but is harder to use than BR/DMR?

It's RRR needs to fall between the AR's and BR's

It also needs to be more difficult than the BR.

The lessened ability to hit long range will remedy the pinging issue while the lengthened range will mitigate snowballing. They need to find a balance between the two, in the beta it was too far on the pinging mitigation end of the spectrum.

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What Halo really needs is for the sandbox weapons to have niches.

 

Like for example, ALL PLASMA WEAPONS need stun on them.

 

Maybe the Promethians can have a corruption poison like effect, that drains shields over time.

 

@@Sal1ent, thought this would be a useful comment to think about. :D

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I don't understand how you mean.  Can you explain?

LR is stronger in scope than out of scope. In H4 it was both in terms of power, and accuracy (scope had single-fire, out of scope had 3-shot burst). H5 only has it in terms of power.

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It's RRR needs to fall between the AR's and BR's

It also needs to be more difficult than the BR.

The lessened ability to hit long range will remedy the pinging issue while the lengthened range will mitigate snowballing. They need to find a balance between the two, in the beta it was too far on the snowball mitigation end of the spectrum.

 

Yeah, you right.

 

Power: SMG > AR > Pistol > BR > DMR

 

Range: SMG < AR < Pistol < BR < DMR

 

@@Sal1ent Why did the pistol feel so weird while in smart-scope for the beta? Was there less aim assist than out of scope, or something else? Also, would it be possible for the 343 pro team to test AR + Buffed Pistol starts vs. AR + BR starts? I'm sure AR & Pistol would work for casuals, only concerned about higher-level play.

 

Buffed Pistol: 4sk, somewhere between 1.0-1.2 second kill time, no Recoil/Flinch, smart-scope optimization? 

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LR is stronger in scope than out of scope. In H4 it was both in terms of power, and accuracy (scope had single-fire, out of scope had 3-shot burst). H5 only has it in terms of power.

 

It's counter-intuitive to make a weapon stronger out of scope than in-scope, so such an idea wouldn't really make sense.

 

The point I keep coming back to when describing my ideal pistol is that it should have a low (1.5-2) total kills-per-clip but have an extremely fast reload compared to the rest of the sandbox.  It encourages it to be a weapon used for 1v1s or for cleaning up on flanks, not to be used to try to trading shots from cover at range.  Though, in the case of being up against a BR user while carrying the Magnum, I think the two weapons should be on roughly even footing in the case that the Magnum is scoped.  If you are in an battle in unscoped RRR, then the Magnum's faster kill speed already favors it in the unscoped battle, assuming you land your shots.  So this ties back into me stressing the Magnum needs to feel like it is firing the way the player intends, without really buffing the weapon.  I think it just needs to be more responsive, not stronger.

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I entirely agree with your posts, unfortunately I'm all out of +rep to give to show it. One important point that you bring up is that one weapon should not dominate at all ranges. For instance, if the pistol is just buffed to 4sk without slower RoF then it becomes very strong up-close, potentially even more than the AR is -- something I'd consider a problem.

 

EDIT: I want to clarify that I think the pistol should be able to beat the AR if you're perfect with it, but it shouldn't have a big window enough to allow an extra shot.

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Maybe the Promethians can have a corruption poison like effect, that drains shields over time.

 

 

100%

 

This would define the support player.

 

If you're the guy that's always putting shots on kids, your role becomes all that much more important since now you're now effectively doubling your damage output.

 

But it wouldn't really matter too much more main slayer types who run in finishing half shield guys, so it would be great at niche filling.

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Well, the first legit picture of Halo 5 (Locke and Chief) shows the BR with the current sight. While the Teaser Trailer of H5's Beta didn't show a sight. Now, we're getting this picture of bunch of weapons without sights....

 

 

halo5character.jpg

 

 

art isnt made in order, different pics are made at different times.

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It's counter-intuitive to make a weapon stronger out of scope than in-scope, so such an idea wouldn't really make sense.

 

The point I keep coming back to when describing my ideal pistol is that it should have a low (1.5-2) total kills-per-clip but have an extremely fast reload compared to the rest of the sandbox.  It encourages it to be a weapon used for 1v1s or for cleaning up on flanks, not to be used to try to trading shots from cover at range.  Though, in the case of being up against a BR user while carrying the Magnum, I think the two weapons should be on roughly even footing in the case that the Magnum is scoped.  If you are in an battle in unscoped RRR, then the Magnum's faster kill speed already favors it in the unscoped battle, assuming you land your shots.  So this ties back into me stressing the Magnum needs to feel like it is firing the way the player intends, without really buffing the weapon.  I think it just needs to be more responsive, not stronger.

 

So you're in favor of keeping it a 5sk? Just remove recoil/flinch and improve responsiveness? Sounds easy, @@Sal1ent ;)

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For people who want to discuss starting weapons in Halo 5. @@Sal1ent has said that this is still being worked on, right through launch, so our feedback is still really important, and can make a difference.

This is just something I don't get. 343 is the company that included the boltshot as a STARTING weapon in Halo 4. This is after Bungie patched out the maulers from Halo 3 as a 'pick up' weapon. Like how the fuck does that gun make it to launch as a secondary gun? It was more powerful than the mauler. They didn't see how bad it was a pick up weapon in Halo 3?

 

How can anyone trust 343 with weapon balancing after that crap?

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So you're in favor of keeping it a 5sk? Just remove recoil/flinch and improve responsiveness? Sounds easy, @@Sal1ent ;)

 

Its TTK is already the fastest among non-Sniper headshot weapons right?  (If I am wrong on this, please correct me.)

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This is just something I don't get. 343 is the company that included the boltshot as a STARTING weapon in Halo 4. This is after Bungie patched out the maulers from Halo 3 as a 'pick up' weapon. Like how the fuck does that gun make it to launch as a secondary gun? It was more powerful than the mauler. They didn't see how bad it was a pick up weapon in Halo 3?

 

How can anyone trust 343 with weapon balancing after that crap?

20fa746bfa411f3d7e49ae0d739dd110.png

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Its TTK is already the fastest among non-Sniper headshot weapons right?  (If I am wrong on this, please correct me.)

Yes. 1.1 vs 1.34 BR, 1.4 DMR. IDK about LR. AR perfect kill (with headshots) was around 1 - 1.1, but that's getting nerfed.

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