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CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Yeah I suppose so. Either way there's little to no point to make sense of something so insignificant, considering most of this stuff is outdated. This is just turning out to very confusing.

That's my point. Stuff from the teaser trailer was likely either still a work in progress, or changed for the sake of looking cool.

Either that, or we can customize the sights on our guns in the final game.

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I'd buff pistol to 1.0s (from 1.1s) perfect kill time and make it 4sk (from 5sk) instead. Would require a slight RoF nerf to work.

 

It's the hardest precision weapon to use and keeps picking up a BR relevant. Having to pick up BRs is good for map movement, promotes learning maps, weapon spawn points and timers, and also prevent spawning with a weapon which can easily dominate at almost any range, which is a problem because then, it demotivates people from pushing up.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for a weapon that is useless/trash at range, like the Halo 3 BR, but crossmap kills should be difficult with a starting weapon. Pistol does that right because of its shorter RRR.

 

On top of that, it'd mean that it's possible for competitive settings to be the same as default settings, which is something we've been shooting for, for a long long time.

Pretty much in line with my thinking -- and as a devil's advocate to those who say H2 SMG starts were too snowbally -- how would they have been if the BRs on Lockout spawned in BR1 and on Elbow instead of on BR3 and top blue, with lower ammo on spawn (1 clip)? Would that not encourage leaving power positions for tier 2 weapon control?
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Magnum with a longer RRR, possibly actual magnification on the smart scope would be the ideal utility weapon. Spawn players with just that, and put a bunch of other weapons on the map. I think it would be a good idea to not have every weapon on every map, and give each one a unique feel(DMRs on Eden instead of BRs, to capitalize on the long lines of sight).

Leave the Magnum as the fastest weapon in the game, while the pickups all differ in range, kills per reload, and ease of use.

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Pretty much in line with my thinking -- and as a devil's advocate to those who say H2 SMG starts were too snowbally -- how would they have been if the BRs on Lockout spawned in BR1 and on Elbow instead of on BR3 and top blue, with lower ammo on spawn (1 clip)? Would that not encourage leaving power positions for tier 2 weapon control?

 

The SMG was essentially useless though. Even at close range it was impractical and almost always required grenades, melee and dual wielding just to provide enough power to kill someone. The AR in Halo 5 can zoom in a little and does enough damage to be useful in many many more situations than the SMG. Halo 2 also had a shockingly low amount of Battle Rifles on the map, making the team that grabs them overwhelmingly powerful. 

 

Fortunately in Halo 5, this is alleviated as the AR/Pistol are actually useful from spawn. They can both challenge a BR at close and medium range, and if the enemy is in your base, those are the distances needed to combat someone. If you are being shot at range, it means they aren't in your base and therefore should have enough cover to grab a DMR/BR to counter them. (Big Team Battle excluded.)

 

Also, I'd prefer to see more AR and BR start games, however with tweaking the pistol could definitely be the weapon that separates the wheat from the chaff. Halo 2/3 SMG/AR starts is almost unplayable it's that bad, but with the H5G pistol 343 have a chance to make a real skill gap between the AR users and the pistol users (which I would promote over BR and AR starts).

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Yeah I think the biggest take away for 343 for this is that we don't want the utility weapon to be too easy but the weapon has to be reasonable for console input devices. Currently cross map with that pistol is not reasonable. This is likely by design to keep it inside the AR range but barring that the pistol has many traits that would make the ideal starting weapon. Long distance shooting should be an option with skillful execution but right now you'd just unload and pray without something more precise like a mouse/kb and combine that with large map sizes and the game would just turn into running for awhile off spawn before engaging in any real conflicts

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Josh said that when week 2 started and BR starts were implemented, player retention went down. This could be that people stopped playing because they had already played for a week more than they stopped because they were getting destroyed by the BR.

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Halo 2 also had a shockingly low amount of Battle Rifles on the map, making the team that grabs them overwhelmingly powerful. .

This and the fact there were often in or near power positions are what I am addressing -- if they were in lower traffic areas or closer to spawns, this problem would've been much less noticeable, as the players ahead and set up would either not have BRs, or have BRswith limited ammunition, while the players spawning wwould have easier access to the tools needed to take back control.

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Josh said that when week 2 started and BR starts were implemented, player retention went down. This could be that people stopped playing because they had already played for a week more than they stopped because they were getting destroyed by the BR.

For me it was a mix of not enjoying BR vs BR gameplay in H5 combined with the quality of the map pool being substantially lower. The latter case exacerbated any issues with the former, but I did not play much at all during W2/W3, while I played a ton during W1.

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Josh said that when week 2 started and BR starts were implemented, player retention went down. This could be that people stopped playing because they had already played for a week more than they stopped because they were getting destroyed by the BR.

Yeah I wouldn't say it was just the BR. Matching players MUCH better than you for a casual player can be shocking and frustrating especially if its BR starts as well as the people who just got bored after week 1. Although there have to be some that genuinely preferred AR/Pistol. 

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"It's impossible to draw absolute conclusions from these stats but it highlighted the potential for frustration when players are getting pinged at long distance by the BR while struggling to use it themselves. We've also been deliberate in establishing the BR a skilled weapon w/ relatively low aim assist. This widens the skill gap and rewards the player with the better shot, but it's potentially more frustrating for new players." - @@Sal1ent

 

 

My response to this is that if your matchmaking works, this won't be frustrating for newer players as they should be getting matched against other lesser skilled, newer players. Now them not being able to use the BR could get frustrating for them and rightfully so, but that's where AR secondaries come into play. If they are struggling to use the BR efficiently, they can either keep using it if they have the drive to improve, or they can switch to their AR, which is a completely viable weapon to use in Halo 5.

 

My personal preference is BR starts because at higher level games, solid teams that first get control of the utility weapons will easily be able to lock down a map and destroy an equally skilled team off their spawns because it will be hard to fight back with ARs/Pistols, albeit easier than previous iterations of the game with AR or SMG starts.

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There's a thread for this. Let's not intersperse this with #HuntTheTruth and let it get lost. :halo:

Also wanted to remind everyone that there's an OT of HALO LORE.

 

Link in my signature below.

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This and the fact there were often in or near power positions are what I am addressing -- if they were in lower traffic areas or closer to spawns, this problem would've been much less noticeable, as the players ahead and set up would either not have BRs, or have BRswith limited ammunition, while the players spawning wwould have easier access to the tools needed to take back control.

 

This definitely was a concern in Halo 2. having a BR spawn BR3 in Lockout was a poor design choice considering the lack of long range weaponry on the map and the power of that spot. Top blue is a good spot, I'd also sad Snipe 2 (in the open) Bottom mid (ramp to bottom blue), elbow and top mid would be good spots to put BR's (as an example).

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My problem with the magnum (beta) is that is at medium to long range is almost useless against the other rifles.

 

I just don't want another Halo were i ALWAYS need to be looking for a better weapon from spawn, and i want a starting weapons that takes skill to use (ie not any semi automatic weapon).

 

In the beta i was fine with the sandbox because i felt the Magnum was great and skillfull at close ranges, the BR was versatile at varioues ranges, the DMR and Light Rifle were great at Medium to Long Range.

 

AND YES, the Bullets Magnetism SHOULD be reduced to all Rifles and Sniper.

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So do you reckon H5G will be 900p or 1080p on release? After H2A multplayer being 1080p it'd be a real step down to see less than that for the newest release.

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So do you reckon H5G will be 900p or 1080p on release? After H2A multplayer being 1080p it'd be a real step down to see less than that for the newest release.

1080p 60fps  has been confirmed, I'm pretty sure.

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Pretty much in line with my thinking -- and as a devil's advocate to those who say H2 SMG starts were too snowbally -- how would they have been if the BRs on Lockout spawned in BR1 and on Elbow instead of on BR3 and top blue, with lower ammo on spawn (1 clip)? Would that not encourage leaving power positions for tier 2 weapon control?

It would have given the map a much better flow with the way you have it, however, SMGs are just so so so weak that it's hard to make a point with them in mind. I just feel like most symmetrical maps should have at least 3 precision weapons / Tier 2 weapons per side to pick up, on 30 to 60 second respawn timers depending on the clip size. Pit in Halo 3 is a good example of what I consider decent BR placement (though the timers were still a bit long).

 

Of course, good map design will also support placing them away from power positions.

 

EDIT: I forgot to address it, but Guardian is an example of what I'd consider horrible Tier 2 weapon placement. The precision weapons were so scarce on that map, it could have used having an extra BR near the sniper lift area / bottom blue, another one in green, bottom gold against the camo wall, etc.

 

If these spawns aren't common / frequent enough, then it's just as bad.

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1080p 60fps has been confirmed, I'm pretty sure.

Nope, it hasn't and they'd be foolish to try and promise 1080p this early on.

 

Only 60FPS has been confirmed. Obviously 1080p will be there goal after MCC pushed for that too, minus H2A Campaign.

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Wouldn't it be great if the Slayer Pro settings involved a 3 shot magnum with no spread or bloom, but they didn't want the casuals to blow their top so they just leave it as a surprise before release

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Wouldn't it be great if the Slayer Pro settings involved a 3 shot magnum with no spread or bloom, but they didn't want the casuals to blow their top so they just leave it as a surprise before release

Would be 0.66s optimal kill time? In the beta, I'm not even sure the sniper scoped in that fast...

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the first thing  the said about h5 was 1080p/60fps , is 343 we can trust them  :kappa:

 

Never actually states 1080p. I went back and checked. "60fps Arena Gameplay" was the phrase used.

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Would be 0.66s optimal kill time? In the beta, I'm not even sure the sniper scoped in that fast...

It would solve all the problems this community has with the movement mechanics, wouldn't it

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That said, if you are entirely opposed to any situation where you need to put your gun down (assuming you don't include grenade throws and melee) then understandably you won't enjoy H5.

 

PCmN5zd.gif

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